Paying for red diesel

[mayalld]

Selling the boat to the wife?

 

Yup

[PeterScott]

... That piece of paper showed a cost split for the diesel - the total for which was a lot less than I had paid him.

 

So the question for OP still is How much are you claiming to have paid?

 

If it was indeed the £38 and however-many pence, the best words are something like "I withdraw without reservation my suggestions of dishonesty; please accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience and loss of business that I have caused"

 

Would have been good to have found time for us here while contributing to these others this morning:

That would have scared the jee-willikers out of me!...

...had a great time learning to paint roses and castles...

...making a long narrow fold-away dining table...

[Nine of Hearts]

Selling the boat to the wife?

 

Better still, fill your boat, car, kid's pockets, etc with red diesel and divorce her. She'll get the lot tax free.

 

Oops. Time for my medication...

[woodenit]

So the question for OP still is How much are you claiming to have paid?

 

If it was indeed the £38 and however-many pence, the best words are something like "I withdraw without reservation my suggestions of dishonesty; please accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience and loss of business that I have caused"

 

Would have been good to have found time for us here while contributing to these others this morning:

 

the op is a lady so she cant be wrong, never wrong, they wont admit it ,they change the subject

[carlt]

Yup

You're paying her too much housekeeping, if she can afford a boat

 

Tongue in cheek smiley deployed for this overtly sexist joke.

[furnessvale]

I can see a loophole to be expoited here!

 

Having read 4.9 I can see your point but it is not quite the loophole you think. It specifically refers to how HMRC would treat builders/sellers etc, who are not RDCOs, making one off sales and it is a sensible solution to a silly situation where a builder in theory would have to become an RDCO to sell the fuel in a boats tank.

 

Any attempt to "open out" the loophole would quickly be jumped on by HMRC.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[bottle]

The receipt shown by Kate boats, appears to give an average price of £0.90 per litre.

 

I believe some figures at the beginning of this thread showed that that figure (£0.90) was about right for a 60/40 split.

 

So now down to the problem.

 

Did or did not Blue String pay £ 38.67 if they did then there is not a problem other than a misunderstanding and a bad explanation.

 

Disregarding whether or not it is bad business practice to only supply a fixed split and also not to make it clear to the customer before purchase.

[Teakbank12]

The receipt shown by Kate boats, appears to give an average price of £0.90 per litre.

 

I believe some figures at the beginning of this thread showed that that figure (£0.90) was about right for a 60/40 split.

 

So now down to the problem.

 

Did or did not Blue String pay £ 38.67 if they did then there is not a problem other than a misunderstanding and a bad explanation.

 

Disregarding whether or not it is bad business practice to only supply a fixed split and also not to make it clear to the customer before purchase.

 

Isnt it strange that most posts on this forum that start badmouthing companies get removed, this has ended up as War n Peace...maybe time to move on & enjoy boating with this wonderful weather we are having.

[Cheshire cat]

Isnt it strange that most posts on this forum that start badmouthing companies get removed, this has ended up as War n Peace...maybe time to move on & enjoy boating with this wonderful weather we are having.

 

Tes,

 

the silence speaks volumes doesn't it

[alan_fincher]

The receipt shown by Kate boats, appears to give an average price of £0.90 per litre.

 

I believe some figures at the beginning of this thread showed that that figure (£0.90) was about right for a 60/40 split.

 

So now down to the problem.

 

Did or did not Blue String pay £ 38.67 if they did then there is not a problem other than a misunderstanding and a bad explanation.

 

Disregarding whether or not it is bad business practice to only supply a fixed split and also not to make it clear to the customer before purchase.

 

Well being pedantic, there is the small issue that they claim to be selling on a 60/40 split, but, despite showing litres to two places of decimals, what is shown is not actually a 60/40 split.

 

If they are claiming that operating anything other than 60/40 is to onerous for them, and that their system can only handle 60/40. then surely, as a bare minimum, what ends up on the paperwork should reflect 60/40, not some other split close, but not equal, to it.

 

LATER EDIT: It has been pointed out to me that I can't correctly read handwriten numbers from a computer screen. I can't it seems. My apologies, the numbers I thought I had read did not equal 60/40, but I now accept that what is on the paperwork does. Doh!

 

Also, as well as BSP clarifying the price she paid, I would like to see Kate Boats justification for their decision not to allow other splits. BSP is not the only one who has had questions raised that they have not answered.

Edited August 14, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Iain_S]

Well being pedantic, there is the small issue that they claim to be selling on a 60/40 split, but, despite showing litres to two places of decimals, what is shown is not actually a 60/40 split.

 

If they are claiming that operating anything other than 60/40 is to onerous for them, and that their system can only handle 60/40. then surely, as a bare minimum, what ends up on the paperwork should reflect 60/40, not some other split close, but not equal, to it.

 

Also, as well as BSP clarifying the price she paid, I would like to see Kate Boats justification for their decision not to allow other splits. BSP is not the only one who has had questions raised that they have not answered.

 

60/40 by my calculations

Iain

[magpie patrick]

60/40 by my calculations

Iain

 

hmmm, I agree. Total is 43 litres and propulsion si 25.8. 25.8/43=0.6

[alan_fincher]

60/40 by my calculations

Iain

 

hmmm, I agree. Total is 43 litres and propulsion si 25.8. 25.8/43=0.6

 

Oh dear, yes !

 

You are absolutely quite correct - I read the domestic figure wrongly as 17.80.

 

Looking at it again now, I can't see how, other than a new pair of prescription glasses is proving to be a nightmare, and I need to revisit Specsavers when we get home.

[bottle]

So after 11 pages, we are down to one question did or did not Blue String pay £38.67.

 

Simple(s) question, really.

[cotswoldsman]

So after 11 pages, we are down to one question did or did not Blue String pay £38.67.

 

Simple(s) question, really.

 

i also have one queston that I would like Kate Boats to answer and I realise they can decline to answer it as it is there business and that is why do they not give boaters the option to self declare? Is it because they use untained staff? Is it because they are to lazy to do the paperwork? Just looking for the easy life? Business is that good that they can't be bothered with honest boaters that declare more than 60% propulsion? I guess it might be a mixture of all those..........

[Swallowman]

So say you buy 100 litres, and the price before extra tax is 60p, you should pay for....

 

60 litres @ £1.06 (60pence plus 46p extra tax) = £63.60

40 litres @ 60 pence. = £24

 

So £87.60 in total.

 

Places operating in the manner described might then display a price for a 60/40 split of 87.6 pence.

 

If you are being charged over 90 pence, you are paying too much, because ity implies a base price way over 60 pence.

 

My guess is that the "ninety someting" price was for a 60/40 split. It's too high and should be an eigthy someting price, based on what we have seen on this trip.

 

Wot abart the VAT? If you add that, you might get somewhere near the true figures.

[nb Innisfree]

A certain boatyard does any split in the week but only 60/40 w/ends because the lady is off then and the lads can only calculate 60/40!

 

Fair enough, quite undestandable.

[Tootles]

All of our boating is done these days on the Lancaster. After many years on the system, we came up here about five years ago. Since the introduction of the 'new' taxation policy, the only yard selling red diesel on this canal will not sell for propulsion, all the others having given up fuel sales as to much trouble. This leaves us all running around the country to various garages, with a boot full of cans. Needles to say, garages are not concerned where your putting the stuff you are buying from them, nor are at all wise about red derv and boats, so you pay the pump price, and tip it into your boat. I initially registered a 80/20 split, (80 heating and generation, 20 propulsion), with no comebacks. Currently we are paying 50p a litre from a small garage we have found. So the question must be asked, if you are unable to buy your fuel canal-side from a boatyard/marina, and have to 'can around' in order to refuel, and the garages haven't got a clue, then are you breaking the law? 50p sounds cheap, until you add up the mileage getting the stuff by car.

[alan_fincher]

So after 11 pages, we are down to one question did or did not Blue String pay £38.67.

 

Simple(s) question, really.

No - two questions.

 

What is Kate Boat's justification for enforcing a 60/40 split on all private purchasers of their diesel ?

 

It is clearly the spirit of the Revenues ruling that boaters should self declare their own anticipated split, so I am keen to understand this company's reasons for potentially not allowing their customers to chance to make a declaration to the Revenue that they believe is the correct one, and for which they, the customer, are legally responsible.

[Rose Narrowboats]

All of our boating is done these days on the Lancaster. After many years on the system, we came up here about five years ago. Since the introduction of the 'new' taxation policy, the only yard selling red diesel on this canal will not sell for propulsion, all the others having given up fuel sales as to much trouble. This leaves us all running around the country to various garages, with a boot full of cans. Needles to say, garages are not concerned where your putting the stuff you are buying from them, nor are at all wise about red derv and boats, so you pay the pump price, and tip it into your boat. I initially registered a 80/20 split, (80 heating and generation, 20 propulsion), with no comebacks. Currently we are paying 50p a litre from a small garage we have found. So the question must be asked, if you are unable to buy your fuel canal-side from a boatyard/marina, and have to 'can around' in order to refuel, and the garages haven't got a clue, then are you breaking the law? 50p sounds cheap, until you add up the mileage getting the stuff by car.

 

 

If the garage in question does not have a separate registration with HMRC to sell fuel to boats, it is illegal for them to sell it to you, and most likely illegal for you to use it as you haven't made a declaration at the time of purchase.

 

All retailers were informed last October that they would need to make an additional registration if they wished to continue supplying fuel to boats.

 

My big fear with the growing use of cans is the risk of a pollution incident, and some knee jerk reaction following on. For the same reason I wouldn't permit self fuelling. If it ever happens (touch wood, it hasn't yet) sorting out who is to blame for a spill is much simpler if it's our pump and our operator.

[dor]

My big fear with the growing use of cans is the risk of a pollution incident, and some knee jerk reaction following on

 

 

I suspect that it was the risk of people filling up cans at Tescos that prompted the government to come up with its compromise, so that diesel on the cut would still be cheaper.

Of course there have always been some people who have used a non-boating source for their red diesel, but it is a pretty small minority.

[cotswoldsman]

If the garage in question does not have a separate registration with HMRC to sell fuel to boats, it is illegal for them to sell it to you, and most likely illegal for you to use it as you haven't made a declaration at the time of purchase.

 

All retailers were informed last October that they would need to make an additional registration if they wished to continue supplying fuel to boats.

 

My big fear with the growing use of cans is the risk of a pollution incident, and some knee jerk reaction following on. For the same reason I wouldn't permit self fuelling. If it ever happens (touch wood, it hasn't yet) sorting out who is to blame for a spill is much simpler if it's our pump and our operator.

The only way to get diesel on the Lancaster is to buy it yourself. There are a couple of guys selling diesel who are registered but this involves towpath delivery. Most boaters buy from a fuel depot in Garstang current price 0.48 ppl (week before last) but no declaration.

[Canal Shop Man]

Most boaters buy from a fuel depot in Garstang current price 0.48 ppl (week before last) but no declaration.

Boaters and Fuel Depot are both breaking the law . . .

[Tootles]

If the garage in question does not have a separate registration with HMRC to sell fuel to boats, it is illegal for them to sell it to you, and most likely illegal for you to use it as you haven't made a declaration at the time of purchase.

 

All retailers were informed last October that they would need to make an additional registration if they wished to continue supplying fuel to boats.

 

My big fear with the growing use of cans is the risk of a pollution incident, and some knee jerk reaction following on. For the same reason I wouldn't permit self fuelling. If it ever happens (touch wood, it hasn't yet) sorting out who is to blame for a spill is much simpler if it's our pump and our operator.

 

Which leaves the question wide open. If there are no supples of fuel on your canal, do you just punt the boat along, or do you use cans? As far as spillage is concerned, I have found that most of it seems to occur at (certain) hire yards on turnaround day. If you have already paid for the stuff, you tend to spend that extra bit of time and effort making sure you dont spill it.

Unless things have changed, there always was a choice of fueling points on the North Oxford. Here theres nothing.

[haggis]

The only way to get diesel on the Lancaster is to buy it yourself. There are a couple of guys selling diesel who are registered but this involves towpath delivery. Most boaters buy from a fuel depot in Garstang current price 0.48 ppl (week before last) but no declaration.

 

We were on the Lanky earlier this year and I couldn't remember being aware of a shortage of diesel outlets. We used the "Complete Guide ot the Lancaster" 4th edition and it shows that diesel is available at Arlen Boats, Pendle Marine, Mons Bridge Marina, Barton Grange Marina, Bridge House Marina, Glasson Bridge Marina and Carnforth. Have all seven of them stopped selling diesel? Although the Lanky is not the busiest canal I would have thought that there were enough "home" and visiting narrow boats to make selling diesel viable. The lanky is a beautiful canal and we thoroughly enjoyed our all too short trip up there.

haggis.