Canal Shop Man

And if you want to buy John's toilet, we can supply a 12 volt (or 24 volt) fan to convert it for a boat. We can also supply a low level urine tank. PM me for details

Love the picture . . . Sorry, I was wrong about Warwick University, it is Birmingham University - Quote from the Guardian: URINE is sterile because it contains no living organisms, unless the person that produces is unlucky enough to have a urinary tract or bladder infection. There are less bacteria in urine than in tap water, for example. But drinking tap water is (generally) safe because it contains no toxic substances. Urine is actually pretty toxin free as well, but does contain plenty of waste products and some salts. Drinking it is a bad idea because it would upset the salt and nitrogen balance in the body, and the body would have to lose excessive water (as more urine), in redressing the balance. Bear this in mind if you ever find yourself adrift at sea in an open boat. (Dr) Peter Lund, School of Biological Sciences, University of Birmingham (p.a.lund@bham.ac.uk) Mross, how do you get a 'normal' toilet on a boat? All boat toilets (inland) have containers of one sort or another and ALL can be disposed of incorrectly. I rest my case . . .

Alan - if you think about it you have sewage on your boat all the time, except for a short while after you have emptied the cassette, or had a pump-out. I have no sewage on my boat . . .ever. What is on board my boat is dry material, which is only on board to avoid any possible risk. I don't keep it in a plastic bag, but in a plastic container. I don't understand Cereal Tiller's joke either - I DO have plants in pots of compost on my boat and they are doing very well!

OK, you may choose to ignore me as I sell compost toilets . . . How about Warwick University, who confirmed that it is safer to drink urine than most tap-water? All those who criticise compost toilets a) have never tried one, probably don't realise just how many there are on boats, and c) know nothing about them. They have been blinkered by 150 years of using WCs to think that it's a good idea to pollute drinking water and urine with faeces and pass it on to someone else. They then assume that others will make sure their waste doesn't pollute our planet . . . How does Mr Smelly know that the number of compost toilets is miniscule when he hasn't done said poll?? Mross worries about the metabolites from compost toilets - where does he think they go from other toilets?? Do they just disappear when they go down the sewer? And the mutations in fish were caused by compost toilets were they?? I think that was from sewage actually. It would be good if people only posted on here what they knew to be true, rather than scare-mongering, but I suppose that's too much to hope . . .

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder . . . Is this acceptable, as it is certainly the best choice for a small space? The saving in water is almost as useful as the practicality of the unit, which is a compost toilet, the Nature's Head.

First of all, can I ask Chubby how he is qualified to tell us what is and isn't a compost toilet? Next, can I, as someone who has been involved with compost toilets and sewage for over 15 years, make it clear to people that, whilst it is not illegal to buy a Popaloo, it is illegal to deposit the contents, which are raw sewage, anywhere other than in suitable sanitation points and that, apart from using no water, it produces the same output as a Porta-Potti. I won't comment on the Kildwick as a) I have never used one, and it hasn't been around long enough for people to give a judgement on its long term use, but I will say that the extra cost of buying a professionally made toilet is to repay the manufacturers for the years of development that have gone into them and the enhancements and improvements that come with such developments, which all lead to a more pleasant experience. Also that toilet needs emptying very often, so perhaps it is worth paying extra for the extra convenience? I will leave users to judge. I will agree with Chubby that dumping fresh solid waste in rubbish is also illegal and similarly unhygienic. However, if it is composted down for at least 26 weeks, which is quite practical with a Nature's Head, Separett, or Air Head, since the quantity is so small, then it is both safe and legal. Of course those with suitable composting facility on land can dispose of it immediately into a composter, but those who are CC should store it on board for this time. Obviously some people will dump their solid waste too soon, but then again I know that some people empty cassettes onto the towpath, whilst I have even heard of a Pump-out user pumping his tank out into the canal whilst cruising, so traditional toilet users are just as bad. Certainly I would recommend a compost toilet (or shall I call it a waterless separating toilet to keep Chubby happy?) as the best solution for Tipnturn

I was so sorry to hear of Les' death and have tears in my eyes having read your wonderful words. I feel we owe a lot to both of you for promoting compost toilets and helping us to get them accepted on canals. When Les turned up one day to buy one (for your birthday!) little did we realise what good promoters of them you would turn out to be. Thank you and I hope the boating fraternity will look after you well in future.

No, the new fashion for composting toilets is moving us forward 150 years from the blinkered view that you can mix it all together with fresh drinking water and either pump it away, or pour it away - whichever, it is still spreading pollution. For those of you who say that sending it to a sewage plant avoids pollution, try checking up on what they do with it, and they are allowed to let 10% of it run away untreated as well! Pure urine is non-toxic and wouldn't cause a problem even if every boater ran it into the canal, though C & RT advise against this because it causes too much weed growth . . . Pouring it under any nearby bush or piece of soil will improve the environment and enhance said bush, or soil. It is only when you mix it in similar quantities with water and let it stand that you generate ammonia and the associated stink. Solid waste and toilet paper can easily be composted either on the boat, or nearby, or can be stored until safe and then put in council green bins for them to compost down. I am pretty sure that all those on this forum who wish to criticise compost toilets have never used one and certainly haven't had one themselves. There may be a few boaters who have a compost toilet and mis-use it, but then the same applies to users of every product. I rest my case . . .

The main Separett supplier in this country (me) not only supplies the right kit for boats, but also advises what to do and what not to do with solid waste. We also live with one (on a boat). There is no better boat toilet and a lot of boaters are using them.

As someone who has sold, used and installed compost toilets for years, I can add that the smallest toilet for boats is the Natures Head, which we can supply if people want one. The Air Head is similar in size, but is now not as good and availability of these from the manufacturer is becoming a problem. These companies, and Separett, who make the Villa and Weekend, have spent years developing and refining their toilets. Whilst the Simploo looks smart, there are many reasons why it won't work well as it is made by someone who tried to copy what he saw as expensive toilets, but without understanding that they are expensive to pay for the R & D and development, which he hasn't done. I rest my case . . .

Why not try a chandlery - we have one . . . also available online here

Why bother paying for twin-wall, when single walled flues have been fine on boats for hundreds of years? If someone can explain to me why we suddenly have to have twin-wall flues, I'd be interested to hear why.

You obviously don't know your own strength Alan . . . I have never had one returned in 15 years and we probably sell more than anybody else.

I would be surprised if you managed to break a Walsh one as his quality is normally excellent and I am sure he would replace it for you free of charge if there was any fault in his - there are many chinese copies which break very easily. Obviously it is possible to break any windlass if you abuse it. We have the full range available and, I think, are the only stockist left selling Duntons, though even we struggle sometimes to get supplies. We have stocks of all the alternatives - see here - the new four hole one is quite light and really useful giving a choice of 'throws'

Sorry to come in late on this discussion (I have been too busy supplying compost toilets . . .) I just wanted to correct this information; 1)Human urine does NOT kill grass. As long as you don't let your pony or dog use the toilet, it is quite safe! 2) Pure human urine is non-toxic. A University study concluded that it is less toxic to drink urine than tap water (though I don't personally recommend it.) 3) There is no hygiene issue with emptying urine in the canal, but when I asked BW (back then) for permission to recommend this, they thought about it long and hard and then decided that if we all did it there would be too much weed growth, so for that reason they said no. 4) Pure urine counts as grey water, so there is no reason why you can't empty it on the bank. Obviously pouring it onto concrete or ashphalt may not be a good idea, but onto earth is no problem as it is absorbed in to the ground quite quickly and is an excellent fertiliser for the plants nearby. Most people's concern about emptying their urine tank is that others may think they are emptying a chemical toilet, but if you choose the right place, it is easily achieved in a few seconds - so much easier than emptying a cassette and so much better for the environment as well. 5) If you are really fussy, then pour it down a drain, a pub toilet, or even an elsan point, but this isn't necessary. If anyone wants more info, please call me on 01327 844442

Or a composting toilet which means you won't need to transport any waste anywhere - it's the way many cc'ers are going for the greatest convenience . . .

I have let this run for a while as recommendations from users and their experioences are more valuable than my comments, since you would assume I am biaised as I sell both Air Heads and Separetts. However, since I have 2 hireboats, one with an Air Head and one with a Separett, as well as living on a boat with a Separett, I think I am well qualified to compare them. They are both separating COMPOSTING toilets and obviously the comments about them being dessicating toilets are from ignorant people who have never seen or used one. It is true that in normal use, neither will produce finished compost direct from the toilet, but the process will hasve started and can either be finished in a composter or in bins stored on board (preferably in the engine bay where it can be kept warm to speed up the process). The benefits of the Air Head are its small size and attached urine tank. This makes installation simple and means that one can be fitted onto almost any boat. The stirrer within the solids tank also turns the compost, thus speeding its action. It can be used by men standing up, but its manual operation and means of keeping the bowl clean means that it is probably better for regular users than newcomers. The benefits of the Separett are that it looks like a 'real' toilet (this is apparently important for women), it has a larger capacity and has more options for installation (including remote urine tank). The automated operation of the toilet bowl means that, as long as everyone sits down, it is almost foolproof, so easier for guests to use correctly. No toilet is perfect, but I think these offer a better alternative than any other toilet on a boat. If anyone wants more information please PM me as I don't want to use this as a sales pitch, just clarify the facts.

Why not just fit a practical composting toilet. We have supplied hundreds and they work. This system is pie-in-the sky and would cost a fortune to set up. It is only usable in 3rd world countries when set up by charitable organisations. We have boats all over the system saving water, money and space using composting toilets.

It is sometimes possible to have a composting toilet in a boat without using a fan, but you need to ensure really good ventilation to avoid smells. It is very important to separate urine at source to keep it pure and unpolluted, then it can be disposed of usefully and easily. If you keep urine separate from soilds then you won't need to add anything to the solids tank each use, bearing in mind that the more you add the sooner it will get full and the more you will have to store till composted. It is not necessary to use any heaters, but the warmer the toilet is the faster the composting. Above all, keep it simple. Adding fancy ducts with liquid in or other chemicals, whether natural or artificial will just complicate matters and make it more likely to go wrong. Whilst those who have never tried composting toilets may criticise them, few who have properly installed composters will complain about them and most will rave about them. As some of you may know, I have been supplying composting toilets for boats for 15 years or so and can provide everything from just urine separators for those who want to build their own to fully equipped toilets. PM me if you want to know more as any more here may be considered advertising.

Sorry to be slow in posting here, but I can confirm that 'Tros Yr Afon' is ex Beaver 71376, which was ASTi when we hired her out, but was renamed and taken to the River Wey after we sold her in 2011 See her here when she was in our fleet in 2008 She had a Vetus 3.10 when we got her and when we first sold her the owner turned the engine round and mounted it normally under an enlarged step arrangement. After we bought her a second time (!) the engine eventually expired and it was replaced with a Beta 2 pot, which I think is still there.

You didn't explain in your post why you particularly wanted a pump-out toilet, but can I suggest you consider a composting toilet, which is much better than either a pump-out or a cassette toilet and can easily be installed in any boat which has one of the other sorts on board. For more details either call me on 01327 844442 or check out our website at www.eco-toilets.co.uk Regards Richard

Can I correct this post. As the operator of these boats, can I please assure anyone reading this that the bent tiller (the result of a hirer catching it under a lock gate - don't ask me how!) has of course been straightened and both boats are fully operational in a good standard We wouldn't hire a boat out unless it was in good order. Richard PS We re a bit north of Oxford though for the OP.

Sounds like a Morco instant water heater Water pressure comes from your water pump (20PSI-40PSI depending on pump)

This accumulator is cheaper: Link here My suggestions for pump: Flojet (quieter) or Jabsco or Johnson Aquajet (bit cheaper) NOT Shurflo

Shame you didn't get a composting loo then! You could have saved money, both in purchase cost and in running costs and installation is very simple. It would also never break down or block like your macerator will . . . And you could save all the space taken up by the holding tank! You wouldn't have needed to keep the portapotti either. But then I suppose this is all academic if you have already paid for it!