Constant cruising

[chevron]

I could ask CRT but what are others

experiences and thoughts regarding over staying when moored. I understand that there maybe due to breakdown awaiting repairs or parts or illness. So how long does/would CRT allow someone to stay? My thought is when does the owner take ownership and responsibility for not complying should they have to move temporarily to a marina mooring or should CRT be charging a fee for letting this happen after a certain time period. Not looking for an argument but other people’s views.

Edited January 4 by chevron
Spelling

[Tony Brooks]

As the rules say something along the lines of "as is reasonable in the circumstances" and CaRT also tell you to contact them and, as far as I can see, will normally grant you a temporary exemption from moving, the answer will depend on the individual circumstances. That may include how often you do it, how far you normally move, the actual reason, and such like. I don't think that there is an answer to this question.

[Paul C]

If you're planning ahead on breaking down, you could also plan ahead to NOT break down.

[Ewan123]

This is something so variable to each case that is hardly worth asking to be honest (except in conversation with CRT when required). As Tony says, the law just says "reasonable" so there's no flat rule. 

 

Having said that, I think one case where there is a default length of "overstay" is in the case of childbirth for a liveaboard. From the CRT website:

 

"Contact us so we can agree, in advance, for you to stay longer in one place. This is usually one month extra on either side of the birth – even if the baby decides to come a little earlier or later than planned. We can also arrange further adjustments up to 26 weeks after the birth."

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/license-your-boat/continuous-cruising/continuous-cruising-your-questions-answered

 

 

 

 

[dmr]

I see the rules as guidelines rather than hard and fast rules. If you need to overstay a few days its not even worth telling CRT, they have better things to be doing. If you need a couple of months then tell them, they should be co-operative. If you have a family crisis/health issue they might grant you a limited cruising range for a year. If you take the p*ss you will eventually get into big trouble.

[Tam & Di]

BWB (now CRT) cocked things up with the 1995 Act. However it does piss me off when people ask questions like this which look like they are trying to see how far they can bend the rules.

[chevron]

44 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

BWB (now CRT) cocked things up with the 1995 Act. However it does piss me off when people ask questions like this which look like they are trying to see how far they can bend the rules.

No I have a home mooring and would not break the rules. I am getting a bit frustrated with boater that seem to do this I pay for moorings and when out walking I see the same boats in the same places for a couple of months. I have to think their broken down or maybe be ill. They are not on winter moorings so my question was how long do people get allowed if they contact CRT and should CRT be charging a fee after a certain period of time.

[dmr]

CRT most likely don't have the legal powers to impose a fine. The 1995 waterways act sometimes makes life very difficult for CRT. Its expensive and time consuming to take action against bad boaters, and sometimes a move at the last moment negates all the time and money spent. Some boaters, and boater organisations, are also very happy to mount expensive legal challenges. In general CRT have to concentrate their efforts on only the really bad offenders.

[Gybe Ho]

53 minutes ago, chevron said:

No I have a home mooring and would not break the rules. I am getting a bit frustrated with boater that seem to do this I pay for moorings and when out walking I see the same boats in the same places for a couple of months. I have to think their broken down or maybe be ill. They are not on winter moorings so my question was how long do people get allowed if they contact CRT and should CRT be charging a fee after a certain period of time.

 

If you did experience an extended mechanical breakdown while out cruising then you need to ask for an exemption on the 14 day rule as would a continuous cruiser.

[booke23]

When viewed from the outside it's very hard to say. 

 

I had a similar experience near my home mooring. There was a pair of boats with no index numbers who a family lived on and who spent 6 months in the same spot, complete with taking complete ownership of the towpath. Eventually they did move a couple of miles to another place for a few months then returned to the same spot for another 6 month stint. I've heard of CRT issuing warnings then only allowing boats to have 6 month licences when they detect poor CC habits with an improvement in movement required or they will then refuse to issue a licence altogether. But when boats don't have index numbers it's hard to tell from the outside what the CRT are doing. I suppose they eventually take legal action and get the boats removed, but there was a fellow on the K&A who boated like this (except he didn't move at all) and it took 10 years of legal wrangling before him and his boats were finally removed. 

[matty40s]

It is worth noting that Chevron initially posted and then edited out after I pointed out the silly languange,  that included the same silly language that Wavedancer posted 24 hours ago, and is in the same kind of vein.

 

So either, it's a bot, a data gatherer, or a thick t**t who thinks that living is for free..NBTA recommendation.

Edited January 5 by Jen-in-Wellies
Language

[chevron]

10 hours ago, matty40s said:

It is worth noting that Chevron initially posted and then edited out after I pointed out the silly languange,  that included the same silly language that Wavedancer posted 24 hours ago, and is in the same kind of vein.

 

So either, it's a bot, a data gatherer, or a thick t**t who thinks that living is for free..NBTA recommendation.

Where did you point out silly language? I corrected a spelling mistake. I have not seen wavedancers post but will look for it. If I am a thick t**t what does that make you?

Edited January 5 by Jen-in-Wellies
Language in quoted post.

[Jonny P]

If you are spotted in the same place twice in succession more than 14 days apart you will receive an e-mail reminding you of the need to keep moving. It may of course take up to four weeks just to trigger this initial step. If compliance doesn't then result the formal process that follows is very long winded but it isn't because CRT are inactive.

 

However there are also a number of reasons why a boat may legitimately be moored to the towpath for an extended period or even permanently:

 

- they are on a CRT permit mooring site. Most of these are obvious but some are not well signed.

- they have an "end of garden" mooring on the towpath side.

- the boat is associated with a former canal facility - such as a privately owned old wharf house - that retains legal mooring rights

- the boater has a permitted overstay for health (or other) reasons

- the boat actually has a permanent mooring but the owner prefers to moor online (although in theory they still have to move at least a boat length every 14 days)

 

Sometimes it may not be obvious which of the above apply but I think if a boat is literally in the same place for years one of the above will apply; or otherwsie the boat will be in the enforcement process.

 

Add to the above that (particularly in winter) some boaters simply stay in one place until they receive the above mentioned letter reminding them to move.

 

And don't make the mistake of thinking that because a boat looks well set - or doesn't even look safe to move - that it doesn't move. Cruise the same extended stretch of canal multiple times in a year and you get to note how boats move (or not). Sometimes you can be surprised.

Edited January 4 by Jonny P

[magnetman]

CRT Commission is looking at capital punishment and long prison sentences for people who don't move enough.

 

You heard it here first. 

 

its going to be really bad and they might even do heavy slighting on facebook and insta.

 

You'll need to go back to the yard bro.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

its going to be really bad

 

I think you're right. 

 

They messed it up in 1995, so this time I predict it will be absolutely watertight and then some. 

 

Thanks for that, NBTA. 

 

 

[magnetman]

It is going to be messy. 

 

There can potentially be some TV shows like the Running Man. 

 

It could be called 'The continuously cruising man (or woman/non binary etc) 

 

It is basically a bloke. There will be punishment strategies and construction of aquatheatres.

 

These are like amphitheatres of the Romans but on and in water. Modern day water which is catastrophically bad news compared with the Roman type of water. You do not want to be in modern water. 

 

Limbs will be torn apart and cheap chinese Diesel heaters dismembered during really quite nasty quasi-cannibalistic scenarios where Other People eat the soft furnishings, drink the beer and also violently throw the electric fridges into the water. 

 

Some will be looking for ways to safely disconnect the gas fridges to avoid potential fire risks. 

 

LIFE PO4 batteries will be tortured by being charged to sub optimal voltages and immediately afterwards subjected to enormous discharge which causes low voltage cutouts. Then their guts will be cu tout and disposed of in the Terrible Uncontrollable Fires. 

 

Lavatories lets not go there. 

 

Mooring ropes will be sliced and diced and burned along with the hair of the continuously cruising man (or woman) in an enclosed device with oxygen feed.

 

 

 

 

[Russ T]

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

It is going to be messy. 

 

There can potentially be some TV shows like the Running Man. 

 

It could be called 'The continuously cruising man (or woman/non binary etc) 

 

It is basically a bloke. There will be punishment strategies and construction of aquatheatres.

 

These are like amphitheatres of the Romans but on and in water. Modern day water which is catastrophically bad news compared with the Roman type of water. You do not want to be in modern water. 

 

Limbs will be torn apart and cheap chinese Diesel heaters dismembered during really quite nasty quasi-cannibalistic scenarios where Other People eat the soft furnishings, drink the beer and also violently throw the electric fridges into the water. 

 

Some will be looking for ways to safely disconnect the gas fridges to avoid potential fire risks. 

 

LIFE PO4 batteries will be tortured by being charged to sub optimal voltages and immediately afterwards subjected to enormous discharge which causes low voltage cutouts. Then their guts will be cu tout and disposed of in the Terrible Uncontrollable Fires. 

 

Lavatories lets not go there. 

 

Mooring ropes will be sliced and diced and burned along with the hair of the continuously cruising man (or woman) in an enclosed device with oxygen feed.

 

 

 

 

It will be more Logans run meets the Maze runner. 

 

People over 40 will be in search of sanctuary, a place to hide to live out their remaning years. Retelling the stories of old. The glory days of the gold plated lock beams and silver side lock service where scantily clad girls progressed vessels through their pearly gates with seductive smiles will be fondly remembered. Gathered around illegal campfires, these stories will become the thing of legend. 

 

Persued  relentlessy by sandpeople determined to put their boats on the carousel, some will run. The mythical Ankh (ore) will be the key to the golden exit, allowing freedom to the silvery rivers of utopia.

 

 There shall be only one exit from the system, a rickety old boat lift, operated by a skeleton hand who requires the Ankh along with the answer to a set of fiendieshly difficult pythonesque questions prior to allowing passage. 

 

Marina and boat yards arround the realm will be under threat of death for assisting the runners.

Locks and pounds will be randomly drained, coraling more boats into an ever decreasing circle. Some special 'crusher' locks will be established, mangling and deforming, scraping and bending.

 

There will be teams of rogue vigilante 'lock keepers' armed with klingon style pain sticks.Armed with these high voltage deterants they will quickly become known as the Voltockies. These crusher lock events will be live broadcast on pay per view satallite uplink, the proceeds going to fund the evil empire. 

 

Groundings will become more common as 'pound runs' become the norm.Desperate attempts at escape after heavy rainfall will be a treacherous reminder to others that movement on so called wet days is illegal. 

 

Teams of drone operators with eyeball scanners will ruthlessly demand verification. Failure to comply will result in a small thermonuclear device deposited down flue pipes.

 

Bridges will collapse, aquaducts fall, banks will erode and trees tumble. 

 

Lockside landings will be greased in the night. 

 

The lucky phew who escape to the Thames will encourage the runners with words of wisdom and subtle wit to cheer their days. 

 

Welcome to You tow PIA.

Edited January 5 by Rod Stewart

[Torblimey]

18 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

It will be more Logans run meets the Maze runner. 

 

People over 40 will be in search of sanctuary, a place to hide to live out their remaning years. Retelling the stories of old. The glory days of the gold plated lock beams and silver side locks service where scantily clad girls progressed vessels through their pearly gates with seductive smiles. Gathered around illegal campfires, these stories will become the thing of legend. 

 

Persued  relentlessy by sandpeople determined to put their boats on the carousel, some will run. The mythical Ankh (ore) will be the key to the golden lock allowing freedom to the silvery rivers of utopia.

 

 There shall be only one exit from the system, a rickety old boat lift operated by a skeleton hand who requires the ankh along with the answer to a set of fiendieshly difficult pythonesque questions prior to allowing passage. 

 

Marina and boat yards arround the realm will be under threat of death for assisting the runners.

Locks and pounds will be randomly drained, coraling more boats into an ever decreasing circle. Some special 'crusher' locks will be established, mangling and deforming, scraping and bending.

 

There will be teams of rogue vigilante 'lock keepers' armed with klingon style pain sticks.Armed with these high voltage deterants they will quickly become known as the Voltockies. These crusher lock events will be live broadcast on pay per view satallite uplink, the proceeds going to fund the evil empire. 

 

Groundings will become more common as 'pound runs' become the norm.Desperate attempts at escape after heavy rainfall will be a treacherous reminder to others that movement on so called wet days is illegal. 

 

Bridges will collapse, aqaducts fall, banks will erode and trees tumble. 

 

Lockside landings will be greased in the night. 

 

The lucky phew who escape to the Thames will encourage the runners with words of wisdom and subtle wit to cheer their days. 

 

Welcome to you tow pia

Heh so many different series and story lines mixed in, I tip my hat to you 🙃

[Grassman]

Theres a Nb that's been moored near Bridge 55 on the T&M just along from Kings Bromley Marina for over 3 years. It has a licence number so it's identifiable but appears to be getting away with it. They are liveaboards and were thrown out of the marina after a row with the then management, so they've so far saved a tidy sum of money, over £10,000 in mooring fees.

 

Whatever reason they've given to CRT surely shouldn't justify being there that length of time? She works locally doing cleaning jobs and when out walking or cruising past in my boat I've often seen her carrying things up and down the towpath, but I don't know about her partner as I never see him.

[Laurie Booth]

21 hours ago, chevron said:

I could ask CRT but what are others

experiences and thoughts regarding over staying when moored. I understand that there maybe due to breakdown awaiting repairs or parts or illness. So how long does/would CRT allow someone to stay? My thought is when does the owner take ownership and responsibility for not complying should they have to move temporarily to a marina mooring or should CRT be charging a fee for letting this happen after a certain time period. Not looking for an argument but other people’s views.

When I broke down, I was a member of River Canal & Rescue, they contact CRT, to inform them of the situation and all was OK.

Edited January 5 by Laurie Booth

[magnetman]

Bird nests on the rudder means you are not allowed to move. 

 

Perhaps rare newts would work. Or bats. If one had a bat sanctuary on board then it may be illegal to interfere with it. 

[LadyG]

38 minutes ago, Laurie Booth said:

When I broke down, I was a member of River Canal & Rescue, they contact CRT, to inform them of the situation and all was OK.

When i was a newby. I suggested to someone that i might ask for an overstay.

It was so long ago i cant recall the problem. I was advised NOT raise a Red Flag. Ive managed to move for five years and only one notification when i was unable to move due to stoppage, this was rescinded 

if I can do it, i think most able folks can. 

 

Edited January 5 by LadyG

[Ex Brummie]

7 hours ago, Grassman said:

Theres a Nb that's been moored near Bridge 55 on the T&M just along from Kings Bromley Marina for over 3 years. It has a licence number so it's identifiable but appears to be getting away with it. They are liveaboards and were thrown out of the marina after a row with the then management, so they've so far saved a tidy sum of money, over £10,000 in mooring fees.

 

Whatever reason they've given to CRT surely shouldn't justify being there that length of time? She works locally doing cleaning jobs and when out walking or cruising past in my boat I've often seen her carrying things up and down the towpath, but I don't know about her partner as I never see him.

Maybe they still declare as being in the Marina so when the checker notes it, whoever administers the report makes an assumption.  A few years back, our club was given a list of moorers for editing. There were many we'd never heard of.

[junior]

Does anyone else find this recent cluster of new threads on contentious topics a bit suspicious?

[magnetman]

11 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

Maybe they still declare as being in the Marina so when the checker notes it, whoever administers the report makes an assumption.  A few years back, our club was given a list of moorers for editing. There were many we'd never heard of.

I know of a case where someone had a BW LTM but she was an unusual individual and did not do well in the towpath community due to a tendency to cause interpersonal conflict (posters about a contentious topic displayed in window) so she somehow acquired permission to moor outside of the actual LTM while paying for the mooring. Half a mile away.

 

This was before the Equality Act came in. The circumstance described here could be an Equality Act adjustment and the reason for not seeing the other person could be health related.