Where are all the boaters?

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There are very few No Cycling signs but as you say compliant bikes are OK FAQs | Canal & River Trust (canalrivertrust.org.uk)

"For clarity if you have an electric bike with a ‘twist and go' throttle (that can be propelled without pedalling) this is NOT a legal e-bike, it is not allowed on towpaths and can be confiscated by the police if done so."

 

"It's not currently legal to ride an e-scooter in any public place, except for where rental trails are being held. We've not allowed any trails to take place on towpaths. We issued this statement on e-scooters in 2020 This makes it clear that e-scooters are prohibited under our bylaws and that we will not be allowing e-scooters to be used on towpaths unless it can be proved that it is safe to do so. As yet, we have not seen such evidence.

 

Loads of both on the towpaths (and pavements and roads) though, the rules are obviously useless without any effective enforcement ... 😞 

 

(though as discussed earlier, it's difficult to see any way CART could actually do this in reality...)

Edited April 26 by IanD

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

"For clarity if you have an electric bike with a ‘twist and go' throttle (that can be propelled without pedalling) this is NOT a legal e-bike, it is not allowed on towpaths and can be confiscated by the police if done so."

 

"It's not currently legal to ride an e-scooter in any public place, except for where rental trails are being held. We've not allowed any trails to take place on towpaths. We issued this statement on e-scooters in 2020 This makes it clear that e-scooters are prohibited under our bylaws and that we will not be allowing e-scooters to be used on towpaths unless it can be proved that it is safe to do so. As yet, we have not seen such evidence.

 

Loads of both on the towpaths (and pavements and roads) though, the rules are obviously useless without any effective enforcement ... 😞 

 

(though as discussed earlier, it's difficult to see any way CART could actually do this in reality...)

There are plenty of "Cyclist dismount" signs though, and I am sure every time he sees one, Higgs dismounts and pushes his bike.

[MrsM]

47 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

There are plenty of "Cyclist dismount" signs though, and I am sure every time he sees one, Higgs dismounts and pushes his bike.

Many bridges have this sign and in 4 years I never once saw a cyclist comply. 

[Higgs]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

There are plenty of "Cyclist dismount" signs though, and I am sure every time he sees one, Higgs dismounts and pushes his bike.

 

Yep. I also get off if the pathway is tight and walkers are coming. I move as far off the pathway as possible and stay stationary, until they pass. 

[ditchcrawler]

57 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Yep. I also get off if the pathway is tight and walkers are coming. I move as far off the pathway as possible and stay stationary, until they pass. 

I can count on one hand the number who I have seen do that this trip and I have not been to any big cities. also a few who said thank you to the pedestrians that got out of their way

[matty40s]

On 24/04/2024 at 08:35, Big Bob W said:

 

 

I think hire companies ramped up their prices during the pandemic when overseas holidays were not an option - and not dropped back down again since. 

No they haven't,  they have had to increase prices across the broad with every cost oncoming increasing in some cases exponentially.

[peterboat]

39 minutes ago, matty40s said:

No they haven't,  they have had to increase prices across the broad with every cost oncoming increasing in some cases exponentially.

Well camping sites most certainly ramped up prices when covid was on and they haven't dropped

[Stroudwater1]

On 26/04/2024 at 00:04, CruisingRobin said:

Interesting discussion, if a bit sad.  We're headed into the UK for a fortnight around the 4CR starting next week.  Looks likely that we will experience actual weather this time.  (We're from California.  We don't have that.  Not like you'd know, anyway.)  I guess we don't mind low traffic, but I hope it's not a desolate experience.  We've planned 4 weeks a year for the next several.  We've bought a share for our cruises starting 2025.  Hope not to see the canal boating economy go south.  We'll do our tiny part.

 

Hope to see someone!

Don’t worry you will hopefully love it. Some canal rings are temporarily closed which could partly account for things being quieter. 
 

Boating on canals is changing and there’s much more livaboards who don’t necessarily move that often.
 

Holidays are changing too. It was very difficult to get an available hire boat at times during Covid. They were fully booked. Now we are free to travel folk are going abroad to make up for lost time. 
 

We passed 10 boats round the Braunston end of the North Oxford canal a couple of weeks ago - still lots of boats around. 

[LadyG]

2 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Don’t worry you will hopefully love it. Some canal rings are temporarily closed which could partly account for things being quieter. 
 

Boating on canals is changing and there’s much more livaboards who don’t necessarily move that often.
 

Holidays are changing too. It was very difficult to get an available hire boat at times during Covid. They were fully booked. Now we are free to travel folk are going abroad to make up for lost time. 
 

We passed 10 boats round the Braunston end of the North Oxford canal a couple of weeks ago - still lots of boats around. 

Im " Up North", there are a few hire boats, i think i was the only boat moving yesterday, which is not uncommon, there are quite a few smaller cruisers in various states of neglect moored on the towpath,  i think they move every fourteen days.

Not so many boats bought for liveaboard, though i met one yesterday,  heading to Hebden Bridge. By the time they had put me through four locks, (under instruction), they were truly part of this community of boaters i keep hearing about. .

[Naughty Cal]

9 hours ago, peterboat said:

Well camping sites most certainly ramped up prices when covid was on and they haven't dropped

Remind me again how much inflation we have had in the UK since 2020? 

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Remind me again how much inflation we have had in the UK since 2020? 

Inflation doesn't mean prices with fixed costs have to rise. That just increases profits. If you own a field with caravans on it, the field doesn't cost you any more because of inflation - it's raising the cost of hiring the caravan (because you can) that causes inflation in the first place. Same as owning a rental house outright, no mortgage - but whacking up the rent just because everyone else has.

Of course, some of your costs do increase, it's not quite as simple as that, but increaseing charges over costs is what fuels inflation, and makes some people rich. Which, after all, is the point.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Inflation doesn't mean prices with fixed costs have to rise. That just increases profits. If you own a field with caravans on it, the field doesn't cost you any more because of inflation -

 

Of course it can. The Business Rates on it will have gone up, and the interest on the loan taken to buy it will have rocketed. As will have the cost of mowing it (diesel and maintenance costs) and labour too, as minimum wage increases every year. 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

the cost of mowing it (diesel............

 

Not only, because previously, caravan parks could use Red diesel, and now they cannot, but the sost of mower spares has increased.

 

Many caravan sites include the cost of 'leccy in their fees, now the leccy has gone up by 2x (?) their previous rate they are making less money.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not only, because previously, caravan parks could use Red diesel, and now they cannot, but the sost of mower spares has increased.

 

Many caravan sites include the cost of 'leccy in their fees, now the leccy has gone up by 2x (?) their previous rate they are making less money.

 

I wasn't too sure about the red/white diesel so I left it out. Arthur has clearly never run a business in his life. Just spent most of his career as a taxman wringing them dry instead! 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I wasn't too sure about the red/white diesel so I left it out. Arthur has clearly never run a business in his life. Just spent most of his career as a taxman wringing them dry instead! 

 

Self employed and running a successful business for fifty years, thank you! And, as I said, mine was an extreme simplification. Raising fees to take account rising costs isn't inflationary. Raising them over and above that, which is what most businesses do, is.

Odd how these business people ignore the stated provisos in an argument and immediately go on the defensive. Very thin-skinned, it seems. Can't imagine why.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Self employed and running a successful business for fifty years, thank you! And, as I said, mine was an extreme simplification. Raising fees to take account rising costs isn't inflationary. Raising them over and above that, which is what most businesses do, is.

Odd how these business people ignore the stated provisos in an argument and immediately go on the defensive. Very thin-skinned, it seems. Can't imagine why.

 

Businesses raise prices above costs both to account for inflation, and because they usually work on a fixed gross margin in order to make a living which doesn't get poorer as time goes on -- otherwise they get squeezed between suppliers and end customers. They're not charities...

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Remind me again how much inflation we have had in the UK since 2020? 

Honestly it was literally overnight and inflation was 2% they were profiteering because people couldn't go abroad. Its mainly why we dont use campsites it's a pointless expense, we are often in car parks as we are self sufficient. Pub car parks work very well as we always buy food and drink

[Rob-M]

Plenty of boats in Stone, we were fortunate to get the last space on the visitor moorings and everyone is moored close with no git gaps.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Plenty of boats in Stone, we were fortunate to get the last space on the visitor moorings and everyone is moored close with no git gaps.

The VMs above or below Star Lock?

[Rob-M]

Just now, IanD said:

The VMs above or below Star Lock?

We are below Star Lock but as we walked over the bridge it looked like it was full both sides above the lock 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

We are below Star Lock but as we walked over the bridge it looked like it was full both sides above the lock 

I was surprised a couple of weeks ago as the VMs there were almost empty, as was the one by the car park. Chocker as usual when I came back.

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Self employed and running a successful business for fifty years, thank you!

 

In which case my apologies! 

 

I still think you've mentioned from time to time being a tax inspector. Do I have that wrong? 

[Mike Todd]

5 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Businesses raise prices above costs both to account for inflation, and because they usually work on a fixed gross margin in order to make a living which doesn't get poorer as time goes on -- otherwise they get squeezed between suppliers and end customers. They're not charities...

And charities have to cope with the same contexts. They need to make a 'profit' ie a surplus on the trading account in 9rder to survive.  No point in a charity reading if it does not make a positive contribution.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

And charities have to cope with the same contexts. They need to make a 'profit' ie a surplus on the trading account in 9rder to survive.  No point in a charity reading if it does not make a positive contribution.

What I meant is that charities are more like utilities (NHS, water, power) in that their primary purpose is to serve the public, the primary purpose of businesses is to make money.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, but it's why the private sector does such a bad job (from the public's pont of view) of providing basic services -- water being a perfect example... 😞

 

Or a good job (from the business point of view) if you can manage to privatise profit and socialise debt --- see Macquarie and Thames Water... 😞

[Ronaldo47]

On 26/04/2024 at 16:19, IanD said:

"For clarity if you have an electric bike with a ‘twist and go' throttle (that can be propelled without pedalling) this is NOT a legal e-bike, it is not allowed on towpaths and can be confiscated by the police if done so."

 

Only partly true. Electric bikes with throttles that are limited to no more than 12mph under power and bought before the law changed, are still legal to use on public roads. We have two Powabyke Shopper bikes with throttles,  the first bought some 20 years ago. The legislation prohibiting throttles as from its date of coming ino force, specifically provides that older bikes like ours that were road-legal when bought,  remain legal. 

Edited April 28 by Ronaldo47
typos