Solo Boat in a Double Lock

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

I'm going to totally confuse things now! In general in a wide lock, Yes to all the above, but I have seen a navigational note on the wide locks on the T&M that the ground paddles are built differently and to pin the boat against the side, open the opposite ground paddle first.

We haven't been that way for many years so can't remember anything about them, but the warning is listed in the Canalplan route guide website.

If that's the case then you'll find out at the first lock that you need to do things differently to "normal", and change to opposite-side-first -- as you say, this is an exception to the rule, but one that might well apply to the OP since they mentioned the T&M.

 

And there are some broad locks where neither seems to work and the boat gets pushed across whatever you do... ;-(

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

If that's the case then you'll find out at the first lock that you need to do things differently to "normal", and change to opposite-side-first -- as you say, this is an exception to the rule, but one that might well apply to the OP since they mentioned the T&M.

 

And there are some broad locks where neither seems to work and the boat gets pushed across whatever you do... ;-(

Big Lock in Middlewich is a classic for anything can happen. The hire boats first day out have a high old time at this lock.

[Mike Tee]

Its no good - I'm going to have to buy a widebeam for when I'm on wide canals..............

[IanD]

58 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Big Lock in Middlewich is a classic for anything can happen. The hire boats first day out have a high old time at this lock.

That's one I remember being tricky too, nothing you do seems to work -- and I'll be going through it next week...

51 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Its no good - I'm going to have to buy a widebeam for when I'm on wide canals..............

Why not just hang some enormous 3' diameter fenders down both sides? 😉

Edited April 4 by IanD

[Ken X]

We went through Big Lock during last years Middlewich Festival.  Didn't realise until we came down through Maureens Lock and saw the crowds. 

 

The flight of three was OK as there were volockies but, as we came down to Big Lock we realised that there was a stage complete with performing band on the offside of the lock and a small grandstand of people on the towpath side.  What could possibly go wrong 😄

 

We have never worked a lock to such a big crowd.  Couldn't hear a thing due to the band so hand signals were the order of the day.  Took it very carefully and almost looked like we knew what we were doing.  Made very sure the centre line was ashore so we could, at least, retrieve the boat at the end.  One of the bottom gates was a right sod though.  Hope it has been sorted by now.  Enjoy.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

Being river based and where the locks are somewhat larger than on most canals we always have a rope on bow and  stern as per the image below.

This is unlikely to be practical if single handed but worth bearing in mind for those locks where  controlling the boat is a challenge.

This raises a Q.

When I was going through a lock on the Aire and Calder [ extra large, powered], a  person of unknown heritage on the bank spent several minutes explaining to a newby plastic what he should do. This included him sitting in front of me.

By this time I had entered the lock and taken up position, mid lock, on a sidewall.

I stopped him passing me inside the lock: making it clear with hand signals that he could be behind me.  I had left him plenty of room behind me (17tonnes steel nb), we went up river together for a few days, and by that time time he was working, it out for himself. His crew were operating the lock, and watching both boats, and he had stopped tying his bow cleat to anything, particularly the lock ladder .

Edited April 4 by LadyG

[bizzard]

The extra special self undoing Mungle Knot.

[Captain Pegg]

I think there’s a lot of misleading - and some frankly terrible - advice above.

 

There is no definitive way to work any lock. The most expedient way of operating the same lock can change according to the length of the boat, the number of crew, the weather, the confidence of the skipper and the experience of the crew amongst other things.

 

It can also change from lock to lock on the same canal or flight because the consecutive locks may not be set out in the same way.

 

Add in the presence of other boats, crews, volockies and do-gooders and things change again.

 

There is a lot of difference between designs of broad locks and I’d be confident that a lot of what is published above in good faith only applies to certain broad locks and not all such locks.

 

For instance if I were to open the offside gate paddle on a GU (ex-GJC) broad lock first with my own boat in the lock it would do a better job of holding my boat again the nearside wall than opening the nearside ground paddle first. To many folk that’s anathema. I’d very rarely be without a line around a bollard in such a lock but occasionally that may happen.

 

The truest things I know are that if you’re single handing you really are better with a line to shore unless you’re very confident in the lock’s behaviour and on the GU Birmingham line only use the paddles on the side the boat is on (unless it’s evident the lock won’t make a level without the other paddle raised).

 

Otherwise find your own way by trial and error.

 

 

Edited April 4 by Captain Pegg

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The extra special self undoing Mungle Knot.

Nothing wrong with that, it's easily released with removal of the hunting crop, by vertical extraction, then a sharp tug on the bandsman's hitch and a quick under and over.

Or my box knife, formerly known as a Stanley knife applied on the boat side. 

Edited April 4 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

No!

 

*Same* side ground paddle first, the water goes under the boat and bounces off the opposite wall and holds the boat to the adjacent wall.

 

(if you open the opposite side ground paddle first the water goes under the boat, bounces upwards off the wall next to it, and forces the boat away from the wall).

 

Then *opposite" side gate paddle (if there is one) once the water has come up to it, the water from this flows across and pins the boat to the wall.

 

Then opposite side ground paddle and same side gate paddle (if there is one).

The only place I have had problems with that technique is coming up from Chester to Barbridge, every lock seems to behave differently. 

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Big Lock in Middlewich is a classic for anything can happen. The hire boats first day out have a high old time at this lock.

At least Anderson Boats go to a lot of trouble trying to train their hirers before letting them lose, the best I have ever witnessed

2 hours ago, Momac said:

Being river based and where the locks are somewhat larger than on most canals we always have a rope on bow and  stern as per the image below.

This is unlikely to be practical if single handed but worth bearing in mind for those locks where  controlling the boat is a challenge.

If I am passing through a Thames lock unattended then I run a longish stern line to a bollard and take the bow line ashore to control the boat while Diana operates the lock.

 

2 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

This advice all becomes irrelevant if you enter a manned-by-volunteers double lock and they whack both ground paddles up as soon as you're in (i'm looking at you Braunston bottom) and then proceed to chat to dog walkers and ignore you  

That is why at least one of us is always ashore in the lock. I have had Volockies say get back on the boat, but I just say I'm fine ta. The worst one was going down Bunbury Stair Case locks, with another boat wo said "O good, a volunteer I don't need to do anything" The said volunteer then opened the paddles walked over to his chair in the sun facing away from the lock and read his news paper. Diana was ashore on my side

[LadyG]

The only tine i have had a problem with a CRT operator, I suspect a vlockie, i told CRT of the danger, and got a reply indcating training would be carried out.

 

[haggis]

1 hour ago, Ken X said:

We went through Big Lock during last years Middlewich Festival.  Didn't realise until we came down through Maureens .  One of the bottom gates was a right sod though.  Hope it has been sorted by now.  Enjoy.

It hadn't been sorted when we last went through it in January!. The towpath side bottom gate I find almost impossible to close and I have been known to play the helpless female and summon help from folk sitting at the pub tables 🙂 

[Hudds Lad]

44 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is why at least one of us is always ashore in the lock. I have had Volockies say get back on the boat, but I just say I'm fine ta. The worst one was going down Bunbury Stair Case locks, with another boat wo said "O good, a volunteer I don't need to do anything" The said volunteer then opened the paddles walked over to his chair in the sun facing away from the lock and read his news paper. Diana was ashore on my side

One was ashore, in fact two as J's mum had come along to "help"   J had just shut the gate behind me when the paddles went up before i could even say good morning to them. They'd opened one bottom gate as they saw us approaching and then gone back to their conversation. And no, i didn't say anything to them afterwards, seemed little point. Nobody died and i knew we'd be working the rest of the locks by ourselves in a way we saw fit.

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

The only place I have had problems with that technique is coming up from Chester to Barbridge, every lock seems to behave differently. 

At least Anderson Boats go to a lot of trouble trying to train their hirers before letting them lose, the best I have ever witnessed

If I am passing through a Thames lock unattended then I run a longish stern line to a bollard and take the bow line ashore to control the boat while Diana operates the lock.

 

That is why at least one of us is always ashore in the lock. I have had Volockies say get back on the boat, but I just say I'm fine ta. The worst one was going down Bunbury Stair Case locks, with another boat wo said "O good, a volunteer I don't need to do anything" The said volunteer then opened the paddles walked over to his chair in the sun facing away from the lock and read his news paper. Diana was ashore on my side

I think the advice about the paddles on the same side only truly works on the GU Birmingham line and it’s a function of the layout of the culverts.

 

The SU ex-Chester Canal broad locks are some of the most difficult on the network and the more broad locks you encounter the more you realise how good the GU broad locks (both types) actually are.

[ditchcrawler]

23 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The SU ex-Chester Canal broad locks are some of the most difficult on the network and the more broad locks you encounter the more you realise how good the GU broad locks (both types) actually are.

As I said, every one of them seems to behave differently, just have to take it slow and see what is happening  

[Stroudwater1]

Knowle locks seem different to the other Ham Baker gear locks. If you get too near the top gate then opening the same side paddle will tend to push your boat across. The other locks are more forgiving. This is a pain as the lock ladder on the left side going up are  close to the top gates. However it’s easier to get from lock to lock on the left side as you don’t need to cross the old narrow locks. 

[IanM]

Knowle locks are the ones with the larger culverts so I imagine that has something to do with it.

[David Mack]

21 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Knowle locks seem different to the other Ham Baker gear locks. If you get too near the top gate then opening the same side paddle will tend to push your boat across. The other locks are more forgiving. This is a pain as the lock ladder on the left side going up are  close to the top gates. However it’s easier to get from lock to lock on the left side as you don’t need to cross the old narrow locks. 

The paddles at Knowle are bigger than on the other 1930s widening locks - labelled as 3ft square I recall whereas the other flights have 2ft 6in square paddles. Presumably because the locks are deeper, 5 wide locks having replaced 6 narrow locks.

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

The paddles at Knowle are bigger than on the other 1930s widening locks - labelled as 3ft square I recall whereas the other flights have 2ft 6in square paddles. Presumably because the locks are deeper, 5 wide locks having replaced 6 narrow locks.

They are indeed and I think they are 3’ 3” square. Knowle is difficult to single hand. Not least because the locks are each stuck out on their own little isthmus. I descended the flight a month ago and had a good look at the remains of the narrow locks. I concluded they probably had side ponds judging by the remnants of brickwork that abut the newer work for the widening.

 

The paddles on Bascote staircase are also different to the standard arrangement. They are larger and lower geared. 

[Sir Nibble]

Going up. Bowline on the centre rope over a bollard towards the back of the lock, forward gear, tickover.

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Knowle is difficult to single hand. Not least because the locks are each stuck out on their own little isthmus.

Much easier to walk up the offside than to go round via the towpath.

[IanD]

33 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Going up. Bowline on the centre rope over a bollard towards the back of the lock, forward gear, tickover.

Agreed -- but that still doesn't stop the boat being pushed across the lock if you get the paddles wrong, or the lock hates you... 😉 

[Ken X]

4 hours ago, haggis said:

 I have been known to play the helpless female and summon help from folk sitting at the pub tables 🙂 

This worked a treat at Hampstead Road Lock, Camden one very hot day. OC Domestic (all 4ft 11 of her) marched up to the large crowd of mildly stoned or drunk bods draped over the balance beams and lock sides and engaged her Swiss German persona at considerable volume. She had them sorting the gates and helping her with the paddles most efficiently whilst I bobbed around in the lock. Never had such an easy passage.🙂

[Sir Nibble]

12 hours ago, IanD said:

Agreed -- but that still doesn't stop the boat being pushed across the lock if you get the paddles wrong, or the lock hates you... 😉 

The trick is to not get the paddles wrong. 

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

The trick is to not get the paddles wrong. 

Which is exactly what I said... 😉