Baton Twirlers Stage Protest (again)

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is exactly the same with both the BSS and Insurance.

C&RT simply say that you must have valid Insurance / BSS for the full period of the licence.

 

Basically you are signing to a commitment to renew the Mooring/BSS/Insurance when it becomes due.

I agree that must be the case .

 

As an example

C&RT know my BSS expires in mid May but  in March they sold me a license for 6 months that started on 1st April.

No problem

(Presently awaiting a date from the BSS surveyor)

 

[David Mack]

42 minutes ago, Midnight said:

What would be the position if having paid the CCer surcharge the boater refused to pay the EoG charge for a mooring less than 6 months on the grounds that he/she had already been charged for 12 months usage. If usage includes additional mooring would CRT be charging twice for the same thing?

The CCer surcharge is nothing to do with a mooring payment. If you are licenced as a CCer but nevertheless take an EoG mooring then you are liable for the EoG charge same as anyone else. If you refuse to pay, CRT can take the same action for debt recovery they can in any other debt situation. Probably most likely that they will refuse to issue a licence when it comes up for renewal, and will require you to take your boat off their waters, under threat of it being Section 8ed.

[GUMPY]

If you have an L3 Farmers Field mooring and your boat is away from the mooring you do not have to pay cart. For years I only paid for 6-7 months when my boat was on the mooring from October to March/April. I would cancel and get a refund on the BW mooring licence in March/April and go boating. Take out a new one the next  October when I returned.

Don't think the law has changed as far as that is concerned.

Edited April 7 by GUMPY

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The CCer surcharge is nothing to do with a mooring payment.

Exactly so,

nor is to do with usage,

it’s simply a way to scam/grab/demand a bit of easy money off an easy target because the shysters (CRT) have not  succeeded. 

 

Only just realised one can greenie oneself 

 

or looove oneself 

Edited April 7 by beerbeerbeerbeerbeer

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

and the rest frittered away

Who said that?

(or similar words)

W.C. Fields

"I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol, and wild women. The other half I wasted."

[magnetman]

I keep a small flagon of whisky about my person in case of being bitten by a snake. I also keep a small snake. 

 

 

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’m not sure where you’re coming from with this,

but with myself, if I have bought a year license  no home mooring, and then took on a mooring for the winter, say less than 6 month, whether it be end of garden or marina I’d just have to suck it up and pay, wouldn’t I?

I think CRT will expect you to pay. In a marina the EoG would be included in most cases, but in  a farmer's field, on a 5 month, stopover, you may be liable to pay the EoG to directly to CRT. Having paid 12 months CCer surcharge you may (or may not) feel you are paying twice for the same thing. Afterall the surcharge is supposedly to cover extended use of the 'facilities' which include mooring. In a debt recovery action you may have a good argument. 

 

 

Edited April 7 by Midnight

[Arthur Marshall]

18 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I think CRT will expect you to pay. In a marina the EoG would be included in most cases, but in  a farmer's field, on a 5 month, stopover, you may be liable to pay the EoG to directly to CRT. Having paid 12 months CCer surcharge you may (or may not) feel you are paying twice for the same thing. Afterall the surcharge is supposedly to cover extended use of the 'facilities' which include mooring. In a debt recovery action you may have a good argument. 

 

 

The EOG is part of your mooring cost, the bit that lets you stay in one place for more than 14 days. Just because I pay mine separately rather than the farm whacking up their fee to include it makes no real odds. How it'll work I dunno, if CRT don't spot you on the mooring they'll rely on you telling them and you'd probably forget...

There's no reason such as usage or mooring or anything for the CC surcharge, it just is, same as there's no logical reason for EOG (or sense to the calculation of its cost). Would have been much simpler for BW and CRT just to work out what they wanted to get from licences and mooring fees combined, divided it by estimated boat numbers and charged a flat rate licence, cutting the bureaucracy in half. Both Higgs and me would be happy.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

26 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I think CRT will expect you to pay. In a marina the EoG would be included in most cases, but in  a farmer's field, on a 5 month, stopover, you may be liable to pay the EoG to directly to CRT. Having paid 12 months CCer surcharge you may (or may not) feel you are paying twice for the same thing. Afterall the surcharge is supposedly to cover extended use of the 'facilities' which include mooring. In a debt recovery action you may have a good argument. 

 

 

I don’t know, all this thinking and over  thinking makes me head hurt,

I’m kinda glad I’m able to move about and not care,

Nothing makes sense

 

[Midnight]

6 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I don’t know, all this thinking and over  thinking makes me head hurt,

I’m kinda glad I’m able to move about and not care,

Nothing makes sense

 

There's very little CRT does that makes sense. Just drink beer and chill 😎 

 

If I see you in summer, we'll drink some more.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

In a debt recovery action you may have a good argument. 

Under CRT's Ts and Cs the charge is payable. That's all any court dealing with debt will be interested in. But it wouldn't get that far. CRT would refuse to renew your licence because of the debt. Then they would take action for having an unlicensed boat on their waters. Previous cases have shown that courts take the narrow view, and the boater does not get the opportunity to explain to the court why the boat is unlicensed.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

There's very little CRT does that makes sense. Just drink beer and chill 😎 

 

If I see you in summer, we'll drink some more.

I think you have found the solution.

[cheesegas]

7 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

How can you tell? Do tell, I generally find it so hard to discriminate between one boater and another.

Not that there's owt wrong with running a genny at 7pm, apart from it being annoying to anyone nearby.

I do generally chat with fellow boaters on the towpath - and of course there’s nothing wrong with running a genny on the towpath at 7pm. As mentioned in a previous thread, I’ve been on the receiving end of snobbery from brass polishers with a house and a home mooring for their boat so I’m a little biased, admittedly. 
 

It does however become obvious over time; those with a little 150w panel to keep the starter battery happy and shiny paintwork are more likely to run a genny than someone with 1000w of solar on the roof. I spend a couple months of the year on the upper Thames and I try not to moor near those without solar as there’s a good chance they’ve moored up around lunchtime and by evening their batteries are failing so the genny is turned on. Nothing wrong with that, I just want a nice peaceful getaway with no genny/engine drone. 
 

I have had a couple of aggressive encounters with people running their engine into the night so I nowadays choose to not engage with them…

[MtB]

40 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

I do generally chat with fellow boaters on the towpath - and of course there’s nothing wrong with running a genny on the towpath at 7pm. As mentioned in a previous thread, I’ve been on the receiving end of snobbery from brass polishers with a house and a home mooring for their boat so I’m a little biased, admittedly. 
 

It does however become obvious over time; those with a little 150w panel to keep the starter battery happy and shiny paintwork are more likely to run a genny than someone with 1000w of solar on the roof. I spend a couple months of the year on the upper Thames and I try not to moor near those without solar as there’s a good chance they’ve moored up around lunchtime and by evening their batteries are failing so the genny is turned on. Nothing wrong with that, I just want a nice peaceful getaway with no genny/engine drone. 
 

I have had a couple of aggressive encounters with people running their engine into the night so I nowadays choose to not engage with them…

 

 

I've been accused of being both a "Shiny Boater" and a "Scruffy Boater" by different people on the same day, and on the same boat lol!! 

 

And BTW I used to get by without running the genny for 9 months of the year on 560W of solar when I lived off grid.

 

P.S. I agree though, a shiny boat is more likely to give one grief than a scruffy one. 

 

P.P.S. I never polish my brass despite having two home moorings and living on the bank! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by MtB

[ditchcrawler]

40 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

 

It does however become obvious over time; those with a little 150w panel to keep the starter battery happy  …

That sounds like me, I better buy a genny

[MrsM]

We had 3 seasons with a scruffyish boat followed by 1 with a shiny boat after we had it repainted. I was interested to see whether people behaved differently with us, but generally the ones that did tended to be the (v)lockies, who often treated us like we hadn't a clue when our boat was shiny. Having covered a big chunk of the system and with well over 1200 hours boating under our belts by this time we found this somewhat amusing. 

[Midnight]

11 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I think you have found the solution.

 

I think your idea of probably forgetting to tell them will be the standard. 😆

Edited April 8 by Midnight

[Momac]

10 hours ago, MrsM said:

........ the (v)lockies, who often treated us like we hadn't a clue when our boat was shiny.

Do some people think a well kept / nicely presented  boat is something that only novices do?

 

 

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

Do some people think a well kept / nicely presented  boat is something that only novices do?

 

 

No, it reflects that fact that many new entrants do not realise the effort and  involved in keeping a boat shiny (ever had a quote for a proper re-paint?) It takes time for a boat to get a 'lived in' patina . . . But it is inevitable . . . 

[MrsM]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

Do some people think a well kept / nicely presented  boat is something that only novices do?

 

 

I have no idea why, but it was quite noticeable that some lockies treated us quite differently after the boat looked all fresh and shiny. 

[IanD]

Just now, MrsM said:

I have no idea why, but it was quite noticeable that some lockies treated us quite differently after the boat looked all fresh and shiny. 

Better or worse? 😉 

[MrsM]

20 minutes ago, IanD said:

Better or worse? 😉 

I think it could best be summed up as 'patronising'. I guess when our boat looked well used they assumed we knew what we were doing, but when our boat looked shiny and unscathed they assumed that we hardly ever left the marina (which couldn't have been further from the truth). Quite logical I suppose. 

[IanD]

56 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I think it could best be summed up as 'patronising'. I guess when our boat looked well used they assumed we knew what we were doing, but when our boat looked shiny and unscathed they assumed that we hardly ever left the marina (which couldn't have been further from the truth). Quite logical I suppose. 

Aah, the "BMW" problem... 😉 

 

Mind you a lot of people -- boaters included -- have a similar attitude to hire boats, regardless of the fact that some hirers have spent far longer actually cruising on the canals over the years than most liveaboards... 😞 

[Rob-M]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Aah, the "BMW" problem... 😉 

 

Mind you a lot of people -- boaters included -- have a similar attitude to hire boats, regardless of the fact that some hirers have spent far longer actually cruising on the canals over the years than most liveaboards... 😞 

When we used to hire we often hired a boat that had no hire company details on it so looked like a private boat and I found we got a different reception at locks to when we hired something that had a company name on it.  With the unmarked boat people would be happy to slate hire boaters, but I then liked to point out we were hiring.

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

When we used to hire we often hired a boat that had no hire company details on it so looked like a private boat and I found we got a different reception at locks to when we hired something that had a company name on it.  With the unmarked boat people would be happy to slate hire boaters, but I then liked to point out we were hiring.

 

And that's the problem with judging by appearances -- I've come across (plenty of) friendly helpful scruffy boaters and nasty arrogant shiny boaters, skilled/knowledgeable hirers and incompetent/ignorant owners/liveaboards. And the opposite in all those cases... 😉 

Edited April 8 by IanD