Any pictures of motorised butties?

[David Mack]

Back in the 70s my father owned Leam, a wooden ex Thomas Clayton butty, converted and motorised. A Petter PH2W was installed in the back cabin, a stern tube fitted through the sternpost and the front part of ellum cut away below water level to accommodate the prop. And that was it. No anti-cavitation plates, and a thick wooden rudder right behind the prop. And while it worked, Leam was the slowest boat on the cut!

I probably have some general photos of the boat stored away, but none of the underwater detail as we never had the boat out of the water. (Under the water, yes, but that's another story).

After Dad sold her Leam was moored in Battlebridge Basin in London for a while in the 80s, but the new owner's planned restoration never happened, and she was broken up some years later, at Winkwell I believe.

 

[MtB]

Wasn't one of the HAZELs a motorised butty? Or at least, ISTR there being a wooden motorised butty CMing around for a few years on the southern Oxford, perhaps fifteen or so years ago.

[Francis Herne]

Hotchkiss Cones don't seem to have come up yet.

 

Fitted to some (mostly wooden?) butties; apparently Chance 2 might be the last barely 'surviving' example.

 

Thread here

 

[magnetman]

Not a butty it was a horse Boat but this is a craft I once owned. Apparently one of the first conversions. 

 

 

 

https://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/2087/orianne

There was an anti ventilation plate kindly provided with a 'less likely to cut you in half if you fall in' flanged edge. 

 

 

 

 

I made that back cabin and under cloths conversion with my own hands. 

 

Never was a craftsman

 

 

[davidwheeler]

At the risk of lowering the tone a bit, or of being flippant, on at least one occasion a butty has been powered by sail. 

It came about like this. We were on our way from the Stroudwater to Gloucester to do the shopping. As we approached a bend in the Ship Canal, our engine stopped. This in itself was not unusual. It was probably something stirred up by a passing barge which had got into one of the Cones and jammed it and thus the engine. We could usually fix it pretty quickly. But on this occasion it was more serious. There was a stiffish breeze coming down the cut, and this blew us right across the cut. Try as we would, by using oars and swinging the rudder about, we could not straighten our boat and this was becoming serious. Barges had already passed us, light, on the way to Sharpness and the tide. These light barges moved fast, bows high out of the water, and visibility from their deckhouse was limited. Not only were we an obstruction, we were a danger, particularly to ourselves. What we then did was to raise our dinghy's mast and sliding gunter sail, on top of the coach house, about midway. By hanging on tight to the shrouds, the sail filled and we had way, enough to turn and begin to sail back to the Stroudwater. Then a Regent tankbarge, luckily for us one of the smaller ones trading to Stourport, came up behind us, and offered us a tow. The captain said he'd been told to look out for us. We didn't dare ask how he knew. Or what he had been advised to look out for. Whatever they thought of us, they were invariably helpful. And we got a tow, at high speed. And were cast off just at the very right moment to allow us to slink back into the Stroudwater. 'Regent Linnet' the tanker was and my father sent the captain a fiver.

I would not recommend sail as a principal source of propulsion. But as an emergency auxiliary it saved us. Obviously, carrying mast, rigging and sail takes up a bit of space, but it might be worth a thought.

[Hudds Lad]

Well, someone had to do it  

 

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, davidwheeler said:

At the risk of lowering the tone a bit, or of being flippant, on at least one occasion a butty has been powered by sail. 

The Chesterfield Canal Trust's cuckoo boat, Dawn Rose, is equipped to sail, although I don't know whether it has ever done so.

[zenataomm]

The unique Jim MacDonald raised the mast and sail on Elizabeth out on The Wash once upon a twice.  I've seen the photo!

[Francis Herne]

Not a butty, but the "I, Frances" lunatics crossed the Atlantic by narrowboat mostly under sail. Quite a bit of time going the wrong way as they couldn't sail into the wind.

 

There are some photos of the mast (but not sail) raised at sea on another trip here https://www.grannybuttons.com/granny_buttons/2010/03/narrow-frances-to-llandudno.html

 

The slightly more detailed original account is at https://web.archive.org/web/20160413115601/https://iwn.iwai.ie/v29i2/ifrances.PDF

[IanM]

Tony Jones told me that he once rigged up a sail on Betelgeuse and untied from the motor when on the River Severn just for fun.

[Francis Herne]

On a different tangent, the ex-paddle steamer Lucy Ashton was converted to be propelled by four Rolls-Royce Derwent jet engines mounted above the deck, in which form it reached a considerable speed.

 

Photos and more details can be found at http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/lucyasht/lucyasht.htm

 

I see no reason why this wouldn't work on a butty, with the engine atop the cabin, although the steerer would have to duck and wear a heatproof suit.

Edited March 14 by Francis Herne

[magnetman]

I really like the rocket powered Sinclair C5. 

 

It is interesting to observe how much effort is put in to water based propulsion systems on canal Boats when in reality the system was originally designed for towage by land based traction units. 

 

 

 

 

Someone needs to market a legless brushless horse. 

[Derek R.]

I seem to recall Jim telling me about ELIZABETH being built to take sail.

https://hnbc.org.uk/boats/elizabeth

[blackrose]

If you put a motor on the end of a butty or joey is it still traditional? I thought they were both examples of traditional unpowered craft? I can't help thinking that if you want a motorised boat then you should buy a boat designed for an engine rather than bastardising traditional unpowered boats.

Edited March 15 by blackrose

[Captain Pegg]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

If you put a motor on the end of a butty or joey is it still traditional? I thought they were both examples of traditional unpowered craft? I can't help thinking that if you want a motorised boat then you should buy a boat designed for an engine rather than bastardising traditional unpowered boats.

There’s a significant history of motorising boats built to be towed.

 

The reality is that a much larger number of unpowered boats than have already would meet their demise if they weren’t converted in some form.

 

Lesser of two evils perhaps. Boats are living things.

 

 

[magnetman]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

If you put a motor on the end of a butty or joey is it still traditional? I thought they were both examples of traditional unpowered craft? I can't help thinking that if you want a motorised boat then you should buy a boat designed for an engine rather than bastardising traditional unpowered boats.

These days I would agree with that but back in the 60s when a lot of these craft were being converted they were so cheap the alternative would probably have been scrapping if worthwhile. 

 

Of course butties are still being cut which is a shame but there we are. 

 

 

[Francis Herne]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

If you put a motor on the end of a butty or joey is it still traditional? I thought they were both examples of traditional unpowered craft? I can't help thinking that if you want a motorised boat then you should buy a boat designed for an engine rather than bastardising traditional unpowered boats.

At least the conversions here are mostly quite sympathetic, you can't easily tell from above the waterline and the hydraulic-elum type is easily reversible.

 

A lot of butties have had the stern chopped off entirely and replaced by an imitation motor stern, or even been cut in half to make the front ends of two motors.

[Pluto]

Don't forget the Bridgewater six-planker motor conversions. I could only find this photo in the Waterways Archive collection. Note that the counter on Alice is formed by vertical planking fitted around the conventional horse boat stern.

[zenataomm]

Really going off on a tangent now, but I recall a Waterway's World (?) article umpty years ago.

It was about a wooden motor on maintenance on The Severn.

A particularly strong bore was predicted and it was decided expedient to get her back onto the cut for safety.  Unfortunately her engine was non serviceable.

So they plonked a girt great diesel powered water pump in the hold and trailed a pair of hoses back to the counter.  

Water jet powered, she blasted her way up The Severn to safety.

I have a recollection she was the Harland & Wolff Star Class prototype Venus, however I may well be wrong.  I have now reached that point in my life where I ask total strangers if I've had my dinner yet.

[ditchcrawler]

When were the first horse boats/butties motorised ?

[Francis Herne]

Does anyone have photos of the outboard-driven River Class prototypes, Anne or Lee?

 

Would be another candidate for this thread but I can't find one.

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

Does anyone have photos of the outboard-driven River Class prototypes, Anne or Lee?

 

Would be another candidate for this thread but I can't find one.

If you search a website called Canalworld.net you'll find ...

 

[Graham_Robinson]

[koukouvagia]

Mr Coggins, the Birmingham coal factor who was responsible for this invention, is seen leaning over the 4 cylinder 17 hp marine engine after a successful trial run from the Cannock Chase Colliery to Paddington in April 1917.

I can't find exactly what engine was used, but a contemporary record states that petrol was used for starting and paraffin when running.  It was claimed that the engine and attachments could be swapped from one boat to another in a few minutes.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

Mr Coggins, the Birmingham coal factor who was responsible for this invention, is seen leaning over the 4 cylinder 17 hp marine engine after a successful trial run from the Cannock Chase Colliery to Paddington in April 1917.

I can't find exactly what engine was used, but a contemporary record states that petrol was used for starting and paraffin when running.  It was claimed that the engine and attachments could be swapped from one boat to another in a few minutes.

 

 

Sounds like a tractor engine