No Going Back?

[blackrat779]

Hi,

I'm curious about decisions people have made regarding a life on the cut.

 

I have been following many YouTubers as they live life on their boats for the last 6 years, some have stayed, some have left and some just seem to have disappeared. It seems for at least some people this was just a phase in their lives before they moved on to other things. Of course I appreciate that YouTube is not real life and there are many reasons why people are making videos, including money, which is all fine. 

 

My question is for those who sold up everything to move to a life afloat, what happens when you...get board, get too old or sick or yearn for a life back on dry land, want to move nearer family etc.? 

 

With house prices going up and boat values going down, what if you can't afford to move back to a house if you need to (assuming you have sold everything)? Do you have a plan B?

 

Following a change in circumstances, I now find myself looking at the possibility of making that choice for myself. (Please assume I have a realistic view of life onboard and the costs). Do I jump in and live my dream, possibly to regret it years down the line, I'm mid 60's. Do I buy a small house and maybe just do a few holidays on the cut, hoping that this will be enough always regretting that I wasn't brave enough to jump off a cliff?

 

I know that no one can answer these questions for me, but many people have made this decision before me and I am curious as to how you made yours. What is your plan or did you just jump and hope for the best?

 

Thanks

 

[mrsmelly]

Your question cannot be answered there are too many variables in life. For myself and the missus, we bought a boat basicaly on the spur of the moment to live on in 89 financed by sale of house so no debt. We lived onboard on a total of 8 boats for the next 32 years until my health forced us to buy a poxy house, neither of us ever wanted to downgrade back to a house but hey ho. We bought a few houses on and off as holiday jaunts over the years but for the period 2007 until moving off in 21 didnt own any property, however we kept a few quid back that enabled us in 21 to be cash buyers of our present house. EVERYONE is different but for us the move aboard was best decision of our lives. We were mid 30s when we moved on and now 70 and nearing 70 with bad health. One thing for sure is you are dead a hell of a long time and if you dont do it soon your choice will be gone as you will be dead. So we jumped, but we were young. Would we do it again? Hell YES we would. The best times are long gone and forget u tube just make a decision, walk along to some boats and talk to some real people to get a better idea and go for it if fit.

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, blackrat779 said:

With house prices going up and boat values going down, what if you can't afford to move back to a house if you need to (assuming you have sold everything)? Do you have a plan B?

 

 

The Plan B is rent the house out rather than selling it, and use the rental money to finance a loan to buy the boat. This is what the sensible people do. Then if/when ill-health or old age hits, you can move back into the house (albeit not immediately as your tenants will have to find somewhere else to live). But it IS the backstop position. 

 

In fact this should not Plan B at all. It should be Plan A.

 

 

 

 

 

[RichM]

In my case I bought a boat back in 2015 outright. Lived on her for nearly 5 years, had the best time of my life. Then approaching my mid 30s, it dawned on me that if I don't jump on the housing bandwagon sooner or later, it may be difficult to do so. With that, I bought a house with a mortgage and then sold the boat. This all happened in the months leading up to the pandemic, when house prices subsequently rose dramatically. It was a good move as I wouldn't have been able to afford the house I have now if I left it much later.

 

When I lived aboard, having no fixed abode was an issue, the only address I could use was over 100 miles away. This made it challenging to register at GP or anything to do with official documents. People get around this using family/friends addresses etc but it's less than ideal. Also, many (if not most) marinas are non residential and thus don't allow you to use their address for anything official although there may be some exceptions. This too was a PITA.

 

My plan now is more or less along the lines of what MtB suggested. I will pay off the house and buy another boat. By which time I will either be in a position to afford both or failing that, I may get a lodger but that is undecided for now. Of course, nothing is set in stone but it's good to have a plan.  

 

Living aboard permanently is not as easy as it's often portrayed to be. The winters are harsh and can be depressing. You will know every storm by name whereas in a house you may not even notice there was a storm. The summers can be unbearably hot (more so on a boat) and it can make the experience very uncomfortable at times. This is why many go back to land. That said, the good times I experienced on a boat are unmatched by anything else.  Of course that is just my experience, everyone will have a different story to tell.

[Tracy D'arth]

Only finance a boat purchase from money that you can afford to lose without becoming homeless.

So don't sell your only abode to buy a boat and then not have enough money to be able to go and buy a house. 

Have a house rented out with a managing agent so you don't have to be going there every time they want a bulb changing. Buy a boat cheaper than your spare money pot because you will have to spend money on it.

Enjoy living on a boat but keep a foothold on the land house wise.

[magnetman]

I came into good family money 31 yars ago when I was 18 and decided to have a carefree life messing about in Boats. I could have bought a nice house. A very nice house... Really very nice. Proper nice 4 bed house by the Thames. For cash. 

 

Oh dear. 

 

But had I done so there would have been other problems.

 

Now the money has evaporated due to having done the woman and offspring thing. They live ashore in a state owned flat. 

 

So I am stuck on the Boat. 

 

Which is in fact precisely where I want to be ! 

 

But to be fair I expect having a nice house might be useful when one is older and perhaps better for the kids. 

 

If I could start again I would do exactly the same thing. 

 

And again. 

 

 

 

On a more serious note my mother also bought a narrow Boat when we sold the house. She wanted an escape. Understandable as she did not have an easy life. 12 yars traveling about together then she eventually wanted to go ashore. Needless to say the property price (southeast Englandland) had gone mad. She bought a little flat got very depressed blamed it on living on a narrow Boat for too long and eventually killed herself. 

 

All a bit sad in a way. We had good times on the narrow canals but she was trying to escape from demons in her head. The Boat was a distraction. In reality she would have been better keeping a house all along. 

 

I, on the other hand, wanted to live on a Boat since I was a child and always have done and still am a child !! 

 

As someone once said 'There is nothing ... half so much worth doing as simply messing around in pools of money'. I like to dive right in! 

 

I'll always live on a Boat until I can no longer get in and out of it. 

 

ageing does make you wonder though. 

 

I expect keeping a house and renting it out could work but I would never want to do that for a number of different reasons. 

Edited January 6 by magnetman

[LadyG]

The sensible thing is to rent out the house, live in a medium size boat, work hard while you are young and fit, build a big pot of cash.

The OAP kicks in when your best years are behind you, it's a great thing to have it, but it will come when you are slowing down, mentally and physically.

I sold my flat and bought a boat in my seventies, I do not recommend this, unless you are confident of the boating aspect and the social aspect, and you are in excellent health.

As to returning to bricks and mortar, I won't be able to buy one.

 

Edited January 6 by LadyG

[Bee]

These are big decisions. They didn't used to be as many, many things have changed. It was actually possible to nearly swap a nice boat for a house needing work, this was back in the early '70's. It is not like that now because house prices are so very high. It was also possible to live very cheaply on a boat and save money, it is not so easy now as living on a boat is certainly not cheap any more.  I think you have to have a wider 'Plan for life' that considers not just restricting your choices to the UK but includes the UK canals and then maybe living abroad. For many people earning a less than brilliant wage I seriously doubt if is really possible to do what used to be possible and live on a boat and travel on the canals and then look at buying a house, especially if it includes kids and so on. But who knows what the future holds.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Bee said:

These are big decisions. They didn't used to be as many, many things have changed. It was actually possible to nearly swap a nice boat for a house needing work, this was back in the early '70's. It is not like that now because house prices are so very high. It was also possible to live very cheaply on a boat and save money, it is not so easy now as living on a boat is certainly not cheap any more.  I think you have to have a wider 'Plan for life' that considers not just restricting your choices to the UK but includes the UK canals and then maybe living abroad. For many people earning a less than brilliant wage I seriously doubt if is really possible to do what used to be possible and live on a boat and travel on the canals and then look at buying a house, especially if it includes kids and so on. But who knows what the future holds.

Indeed so. In a nutshell, I think people have missed the boat so to speak. You only have to listen to morons like the bank boss on 700k a year yesterday who said it isnt hard to buy a house to understand how bad the housing market is for real people.

[DandV]

If you are thinking of full time living on a boat, you need to also plan for how long? What could cause you to have to move ashore?

And then what?

For us a period of inhabiting the British inland waterways was a good option for our time and resources compared to what else we could have done at the time. 

As it obviously is, or was,  for the bulk of the posters on this forum.

 

And it obviously, for the vast numbers of livaboards who choose this as a lower priced option for housing for a time, close to their place of work or study, or just as nice way to pass the early active years of retirement.

This inspite of the real challenges, especially in inclement weather of this lifestyle for even those young and fit.

 

But our life cycle is one towards growing decrepitude. We increasingly leave behind being young and fit. Bugger it. 

And the process usually includes one or more significant sudden degradation steps in our health and abilities.

 

So making provision for this almost inevitable occurrence increasingly transitions from being prudent, to something much more urgent. 

Real estate is a finite resource spread ever more thinly amongst a growing population. 

Hence it's ever increasing value, enhanced considerably by populist government policies to "preserve value/privilege" of real estate owners.

 

Hence advice on this forum to obtain, or at least retain, an interest in this asset class as a priority.

With the relitive market movements of boats and real estate increasingly widening, coming ashore is increasingly becoming more and more financially fraught. 

 

 

[john.k]

My mother used to say "You dont grow old gradually......you get old suddenly when illness or accident hits."

[blackrose]

I've never owned a house so I don't have an issue with not being able to afford to move back into one. I understand rental costs have increased but that's the case irrespective of me having lived on boats since the late 90s. I plan to stay on the boat until they have to carry me off. I think the only reason for me to sell up would be if I moved abroad. 

 

If you own property then the advice is to keep hold of it. On the other hand if you can't afford to keep it and buy a boat then that property may actually be preventing you from doing what you really want to do and in that sense the property is a millstone around your neck. In our property obsessed culture many people don't realise that their assets can also be liabilities.

3 minutes ago, john.k said:

My mother used to say "You dont grow old gradually......you get old suddenly when illness or accident hits."

 

That may be true for some people. My parents are both 90. They've grown old gradually. 

[john.k]

I never earned much money ...but from a young kid I had a dream of having a boatyard......a slipway and a big tin shed  and lots of old boats and engines all over .......so I built my own .......had lots of boats ,always wanted a different one from what I had.......My idea is to be doing stuff ,not plonked somehwere on a boat with no way of doing anything,planning stuff with other guys about boats ,barges ,cranes,piles ,jetties. .....magic..........forgot buying and selling,its all good.

Edited January 7 by john.k

[blackrose]

10 minutes ago, john.k said:

My idea is to be doing stuff ,not plonked somehwere on a boat with no way of doing anything,

 

I'm plonked somewhere on a boat but I still manage to do lots of stuff - just not the same stuff that you like doing. 

[Boaty Jo]

Have you actually been on a boat?

You do need a degree of fitness to cruise and look after yourself living aboard. We did about 12years, but if we were starting now, we simply wouldn't be able to manage the physical side to the same extent.

 

Keep a shore-based safety net if I were you. That way, if you choose to finish boating, say in 5 years, you can do it.

But if you are forced off by health / injury and have no plan B, that would be unpleasant.

[phillarrow]

My partner's parents sold everything 25 years ago and bought their first and only narrowboat. They lived onboard for fifteen years but were forced to come back to dry land when her dad had a serious heart attack and didn't recover well enough to enable him to continue boating. As it happens, that coincided with grandchildren coming along, which softened the blow a little.

 

The problem with how they did it is that they couldn't actually afford to move back on land, and only managed to do so because my partner helped them out, which is something we're still financially responsible for.

 

For this reason, I would say it does make sense to keep some kind of land dwelling as security. However...

 

When I talk to her dad about his time on the boat, he says it was the best fifteen years of his life, he regrets nothing, and he'd rather have done it and died homeless than not done it all!!!

[Alan de Enfield]

A couple lived on their boat in a marina we were in, he had been very active, lived on a boat for many years and in fact was deputy marina manager at one time. In his mid 60s he had a stroke which knocked him back, he could still get on and off the boat but it was not easy. He then had another stroke and was almost 'boat-bound' and any chance of moving the boat for fuel or pump out etc was virtually nil. Other moorers would move the boat for them.

 

Daily care from the district nurses until it was decided that it was not safe for nurses to walk down a wet pontoon, climb steps up onto his boat, and then the same again as they left. He was told you move off the boat or we will no longer provide any care package, he fought and fought but eventually accepted it and they were found a council warden aided bungalow as the couple had no capital to get back into 'property'.

 

He never even made it back to see his boat - he asked me to sell it for him a couple of years later having 'given up' ever getting back on board.

[dave moore]

As a long term boater ( started as a teen in the 60s) I think that you have been very well advised in the above posts. I’ve never yearned to live aboard, too aware of the cons, I think. A series of medical issues over 3 years prompted the sale of our boat and I’m now aware of some of the issues of advancing age, I certainly couldn’t boat in the way I used to. Tempts fugit.

Edited January 7 by dave moore

[cowpie]

The big benefit of buying a boat to live in instead of a house is the initial capital outlay. 

The average price of an acceptable boat is, say, £50k whereas the national average house price is what, about £250k.   So instantly you have "saved" £200k.  The downside comes at the end, after about 20 years, when the boat may still be worth around the initial asking price but the average house will have gone up in price to, who knows? perhaps £400k.

[system 4-50]

My interests change over the years.  First bellringing.  Then electronics, then narrowboat fitout, and now machining & metalworking, each for many years.  Each required more space than the previous option.  If I had gone fulltime liveaboard (on a narrowboat) at any point then my ability to change my activity would have been limited by the lack of space.  Even a fatty would have been limiting, I could fill several with my tools and my offcuts that-will-be-just-what-I-need-one-day.  So I never went liveaboard for this reason.

 But further reasons existed.  My partner was not keen but could have been pursuaded, but could not be relied upon to stay amenable, and hey, partners can need to be replaced and a new one might be less so.

And then there is the canal system.  I fear that I could exhaust its ability to interest.  Travelling around the Shroppie four times was about as many times as I wanted to do that bit.  I suspect my fear is not well-founded but it is still there.

Now that I'm old and have to look after my back in particular, and am super-sensitive to cold, I am glad that resisted the temptation to go for liveaboard.

I always had a property to fall back to, but I'm glad I never went for renting it out, one of my sons has rented a property out and it has been hard work.

[magnetman]

16 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

 

 ...

And then there is the canal system.  I fear that I could exhaust its ability to interest.  Travelling around the Shroppie four times was about as many times as I wanted to do that bit.  I suspect my fear is not well-founded but it is still there.

 

 

This is a very astute point. Canals, unless one is genuinely a fusiast, can be catastrophically boring after a while. This is part of the reason I do not engage any more and prefer the River. 

 

I think people could do well to think properly about this aspect. It might all seem like a wonderful free life but in the end the freedom one has is to go one way or another on a ditch in a long thin metal box. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7 by magnetman

[blackrat779]

My Goodness!

 

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply, to be honest I wasn't expecting this many or such considered thoughts. I am very grateful.

 

I will probably be checking behind the sofa for lost coins to buy a house but I think this is probably the right thing to do. Even in my mid 60's I have already had lung cancer, but 5 years down the line I am reasonably fit and active and would be able to cope very well right now. What if it comes back? There are a lot of 'what ifs' at this age and I probably won't be able to have both the chance to live on the cut and have a house later if I am honest with myself. Having retired I imagine I won't be able to get a loan on the house easily. I think I need my practical head on here and maybe just enjoy a holiday or two on the cut instead and that will have to be enough.

[Crewcut]

An option could be to spend, as already suggested, as little of your existing pot of cash as possible to get a liveable boat, say £40-£50k, invest the rest and you could probably afford when/if the time came to buy a little so-called retirement/over 60s flat. These do usually come with service charges so would be more expensive to live in than a property that you simply owned outright but if you had a half decent pension income (i.e. not solely reliant on state pension but having some occupational pension as well) you'd probably be okay. These flats usually have some kind of on site support so if your reason for moving back to land is health/mobility related you'd have that as well. I've been living full time on boats for 14 years and I still enjoy it, still working FT & still adding quite significantly to my savings pot. This is kind of my plan B...

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, blackrat779 said:

My Goodness!

 

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply, to be honest I wasn't expecting this many or such considered thoughts. I am very grateful.

 

I will probably be checking behind the sofa for lost coins to buy a house but I think this is probably the right thing to do. Even in my mid 60's I have already had lung cancer, but 5 years down the line I am reasonably fit and active and would be able to cope very well right now. What if it comes back? There are a lot of 'what ifs' at this age and I probably won't be able to have both the chance to live on the cut and have a house later if I am honest with myself. Having retired I imagine I won't be able to get a loan on the house easily. I think I need my practical head on here and maybe just enjoy a holiday or two on the cut instead and that will have to be enough.

If you want to be more involved why not go for a boat share, you might need to wield a paintbrush on some of these agreements, or pay for professional maintenance. These things vary.

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, blackrose said:

That may be true for some people. My parents are both 90. They've grown old gradually. 

Is that your view of them aging or theirs? As you get older small things like illness can make step changes to how you feel about your self.