Another cut back. ?

[bigcol]

Having just paid the next years licence, heard on the radio, that CRT have removed all the bins.

I don’t know if this is nationwide, but defo on the local news covering bucks and hearts.

are they talking about the small bins for general public, or the big bins for boaters?

 Seems crazy to me, this rubish is going to end up stacked next to trees, or rammed in the smaller bins

 

surely this can’t be true, what are boaters going to do with their rubish?

costs licence going up

on top of cut backs!

 

col

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bigcol said:

Having just paid the next years licence, heard on the radio, that CRT have removed all the bins.

I don’t know if this is nationwide, but defo on the local news covering bucks and hearts.

are they talking about the small bins for general public, or the big bins for boaters?

 Seems crazy to me, this rubish is going to end up stacked next to trees, or rammed in the smaller bins

 

surely this can’t be true, what are boaters going to do with their rubish?

costs licence going up

on top of cut backs!

 

col

 

My understanding is that in the main its the canal and riverside bins for litter used by towpath users.

 

These are the ones they are removing along the Tees and in other locations too.

 

(Though I believe some boater bin sites have been cut too. Along with some elsans and showers).

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by M_JG

[robtheplod]

Hope its not like councils who made getting rid of household waste so difficult it increased fly tipping... i'd hate to see bin bags chucked in the hedges etc.....

[Wanderer Vagabond]

57 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Having just paid the next years licence, heard on the radio, that CRT have removed all the bins.

I don’t know if this is nationwide, but defo on the local news covering bucks and hearts.

are they talking about the small bins for general public, or the big bins for boaters?

 Seems crazy to me, this rubish is going to end up stacked next to trees, or rammed in the smaller bins

 

surely this can’t be true, what are boaters going to do with their rubish?

costs licence going up

on top of cut backs!

 

col

I think another poster commented on this earlier this year

 and according to the BBC report (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65075402) it is the litter bins that they are removing to encourage people to take their rubbish home with them and dispose of it there. Since everything that goes into a litter bin then goes to landfill (subject to landfill tax) I can see why CRT want to try to save money, but whether it ends out with people just dumping their rubbish on the towpath (and ending up in the canal) we will see, it seems likely to me given just how lazy people are.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

My understanding is that in the main its the canal and riverside bins for litter used by towpath users.

 

Theses are the ones they are removing along the Tees and in other locations too.

 

(Though I believe some boater bin sites have been cut too. Along with some elsans and showers).

They announced this policy 3 or 4 years ago, Take your litter home. But since then they have installed dozens in the Birmingham and Coventry area. I don't know it it was external funding?

[dmr]

A cynic might think that where the bins are provided to collect rubbish CRT are removing them, but where they are part of a corporate branding exercise (Bitmingham etc) then CRT are installing new ones. As a branding exercise they are an own goal, they are blue so do not look good or blend in with their surroundings, and are a huge target for taggers, so become a CRT branded eyesore.

[Midnight]

13 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Hope its not like councils who made getting rid of household waste so difficult it increased fly tipping... i'd hate to see bin bags chucked in the hedges etc.....

 

It wasn't councils who did that. I was in a meeting almost 30 years ago when the Chief Environmental Officer said the directive from government to cease bulky household waste collection services would increase fly-tipping and related costs. I can't remember which governemnt but the LA was certainly controlled by Labour. 

 

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

A cynic might think that where the bins are provided to collect rubbish CRT are removing them, but where they are part of a corporate branding exercise (Bitmingham etc) then CRT are installing new ones. As a branding exercise they are an own goal, they are blue so do not look good or blend in with their surroundings, and are a huge target for taggers, so become a CRT branded eyesore.

 

Ta darr! Light-bulb moment.
Blue bins with signs on them!

[wandering snail]

Here's CRT's new policy on boater facilities: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/original/48107-customer-service-facility-policy-statement-2023.pdf

[JoeC]

A CRT person told me that CRT are also getting rid of the dog poo bins.

[Arthur Marshall]

29 minutes ago, JoeC said:

A CRT person told me that CRT are also getting rid of the dog poo bins.

I can't really see why it's part of CRT's remit to clear up other people's dog muck. Their dog, their muck. Take it home and put it in the bin. Or hang it on a tree, like most of 'em do...

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I can't really see why it's part of CRT's remit to clear up other people's dog muck. Their dog, their muck. Take it home and put it in the bin. Or hang it on a tree, like most of 'em do...

 

 

Like this one ?

 

 

 

Here is the answer - make it someone elses problem ................................

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

I think farmers might be filling up dog waste bins with badgers. 

 

 

People tend to not know that there is a large underground cavity beneath these units to accommodate all the waste dogs. 

 

There are plans to make bigger bins for Bully XL type animals with larger openings at the top to avoid the need to cut them up. 

 

[Midnight]

[Cheshire cat]

It really has come to something when dog poo bins are being removed. It does a disservice to dog owners but inevitably to all canal users.

 

The one below Great Haywood lock disappeared some time in the last twelve months

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Like this one ?

 

 

 

 

These could look really nice in different coloured bags with little LED lights in them for christmas. 

 

[Tim Lewis]

A couple of weeks ago spotted a CRT workboat full of bins, the staff stated that they were removing all the bins on the Eastern end of the Regents Canal!

[adam1uk]

So on the one hand some people say money should be prioritised on navigation and maintenance -- and then when other things are cut some people (the same ones or different?) complain about it.

[Momac]

So it seems C&RT have realised they have no legal obligation to collect waste . The may well be correct. 

I expect there will be  exceptions such as  where C&RT provide home moorings.

 

I guess C&RT  are also not obliged to provide toilets /showers etc , again except where these are funded out of C&RT home moorings or in support of businesses that rent C&RT property.

 

I hope boaters  will not resort to fly tipping their domestic and toilet waste.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, MartynG said:

So it seems C&RT have realised they have no legal obligation to collect waste

 

Nor do they have a legal obligation to provide 'boaters bins', water, toilets or showers. They do, however, believe that they an obligation to provide moorings.

 

 

Of interest, perhaps, to the topic, Nigel Johnson made certain pertinent statements in his Proof of Evidence in the Ladies Bridge Appeal against the LPA enforcement action against the home moorings established there.

Para. 19 – “Given the statutory requirement in the 1995 Act, BW has treated ‘home’ moorings as one of the key facilities that it has a duty, under section 10 Transport Act 1962, to provide on the Kennet and Avon Canal “to such extent as it thinks expedient”.”

Para. 22 “The need to provide facilities for the mooring of boats when not used for navigation is an inevitable consequence of the creation of a manmade canal navigation – in practical terms, they cannot go anywhere else.”  [my bold]

Para. 23 “Historically . . . the main waterspace available for the ‘parking’ of boats when not being navigated on a canal was along the sides of the canal itself . . . in most cases, vessels awaiting cargos; workboats when not in use; vessels laid up during periods of downturn in trade; and pleasure boats when not in use, were predominantly moored in the canal when not in use.”  [my bold]

Para. 24 “The 1827 byelaws of the Kennet and Avon Canal provided, at byelaw 16: ‘That every boatman or other person having the conduct of any boat, barge, or other vessel shall, when the same is not navigating upon the Canal, moor and fasten the same at both ends, close to the bank on the side of the Canal opposite to the towing path, but not under a bridge, upon an aqueduct, or in a lock or stopgate, not within a hundred yards of the same, under penalty of twenty shillings’.”

 

An old summary by Nigel Moore (rip)

[Momac]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Nor do they have a legal obligation to provide 'boaters bins', water, toilets or showers. They do, however, believe that they an obligation to provide moorings.

The loss of water points would be significant. I hope there is no plan to remove water points..

Everything else is manageable although not ideal.

On the whole any reduction in domestic facilities detracts from the boaters perception of the value they get from the license fee.

 

[Midnight]

9 hours ago, adam1uk said:

So on the one hand some people say money should be prioritised on navigation and maintenance -- and then when other things are cut some people (the same ones or different?) complain about it.

 

Not many complaints on this thread. Personally, although I realise this will lead to more fly tipping, I believe it's the local authorities who should provide rubbish and dog bins in their own area. Regrettably the LA's are strapped for cash too. At Cosworth this year I witnessed man with a van unloading a whole transit full of builders waste into the C&RT bins. It happens and it's not for C&RT to pay for local tradesmen to get rid of waste. Nor it is for C&RT to have to remove the various boaters waste that shouldn't be put in bins. I've regularly seen batteries, the remains of boater's bathrooms, kitchens, waste oil, etc. left on the floor of waste compounds. Blame goes to those who abuse the system this time not C&RT.

[Alan de Enfield]

There may well be a moral obligation to provide the likes of water and toilets to provide a reasonable standard of living for those living on the canals, but under the various Acts of Parliament C&RT do have the rights to charge for the provision of services additional to the ability to navigate.

 

That may be the more likely outcome than closure.

 

 

[Phoenix_V]

Isn't this a very good way of forceably drawing to the attention of non boaters and local authorities the current funding issue.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Para. 24 “The 1827 byelaws of the Kennet and Avon Canal provided, at byelaw 16: ‘That every boatman or other person having the conduct of any boat, barge, or other vessel shall, when the same is not navigating upon the Canal, moor and fasten the same at both ends, close to the bank on the side of the Canal opposite to the towing path, but not under a bridge, upon an aqueduct, or in a lock or stopgate, not within a hundred yards of the same, under penalty of twenty shillings’.”

 

An old summary by Nigel Moore (rip)

That is interesting as it specifically forbids (applies a fine) mooring to the towing path. 

 

I wonder if other canals had similar. Maybe the CRT could ban use of towpaths for mooring boats. 

 

 

20 shillings in 1827 (£1) is apparently £130 today. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

Isn't this a very good way of forceably drawing to the attention of non boaters and local authorities the current funding issue.

Not only the funding issue but in some areas the use of canals for slum housing and the formation of favelas. 

[Momac]

12 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

Isn't this a very good way of forceably drawing to the attention of non boaters and local authorities the current funding issue.

Cuts in services provided are also a  good way to deter people from going boating.