"Medium" length stern button

[Binkie's Grandson]

Your boat setup has four fixing points for a tipcat and button, which I can make for you (Knot for Profit Fenders). The advantage of this arrangement is that it breaks in half if you ever get stuck in a tight lock or winding hole, by simply lifting up the button. It also means the button takes the majority of the daily wear and can be replaced without changing the tipcat. And it looks so much better than a droopy long fender. I can also make this for you if you want; I use old car tyres as the core to avoid the droop, it should be 3-4" longer than your rudder.

[magnetman]

Thats an interesting tyre. 

 

What did it come off ? 

[dave moore]

Absolutely sound advice., I’d take it….

[magnetman]

 

I see its a rolled up car tyre. Thought for a minute that was the original size maybe I need specs !

[Tonka]

58 minutes ago, Binkie's Grandson said:

Your boat setup has four fixing points for a tipcat and button, which I can make for you (Knot for Profit Fenders). The advantage of this arrangement is that it breaks in half if you ever get stuck in a tight lock or winding hole, by simply lifting up the button. It also means the button takes the majority of the daily wear and can be replaced without changing the tipcat. And it looks so much better than a droopy long fender. I can also make this for you if you want; I use old car tyres as the core to avoid the droop, it should be 3-4" longer than your rudder.

Do you have a website or Facebook page

[Binkie's Grandson]

54 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Do you have a website or Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/KnotforProfitFenders

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Just what @IanD is after but with 4x chain not 2 and made to the correct length with squash factor to protect the Schilling👍will it be that simple?

[GUMPY]

Long buttons at the stern always look wrong to me. Tipcat and short button looks right.

Plus you can force a short button inside a go-kart tyre making it last much longer.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Or he could have a look at this seller on Ebay, who is actually in Sheffield where the boat is and maybe have a chat to save time and get it dropped off at the boatyard, lots of stressless options available.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394573917285?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=k0cwe54otli&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=6-Um6p8vSEK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited September 17, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Guest]

Looks very much like the one we bought from a passing boat based fender maker on the T&M

 

 

 

But ours had four chains.

[IanD]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll have a look at them 🙂

3 hours ago, Binkie's Grandson said:

Your boat setup has four fixing points for a tipcat and button, which I can make for you (Knot for Profit Fenders). The advantage of this arrangement is that it breaks in half if you ever get stuck in a tight lock or winding hole, by simply lifting up the button. It also means the button takes the majority of the daily wear and can be replaced without changing the tipcat. And it looks so much better than a droopy long fender. I can also make this for you if you want; I use old car tyres as the core to avoid the droop, it should be 3-4" longer than your rudder.

Sounds like a good option, rudder sticks out about 8" so I'd be looking for about 11" total -- which annoyingly is exactly half-way between the two "standard" lengths of around 8" amd 14". I suspect this is too short for a tipcat plus button, so I'd be looking for an 11" four-chain button. How long would this take, and what would the cost be?

[Binkie's Grandson]

I have messaged you

[Ray T]

19 hours ago, Goliath said:

You've got me there,

I was gonna say next to the chimney,

But there won’t be any of they either

 

 

A mop,

there has to be a mop?

every boat needs a mop,

with the colours of the boat painted in spiral fashion 👍

 

but if there’s no buckby can,

there’s nowt to rest mop on

 

I don’t think this has been thought out 

 

🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸🥸

 

A semi trad leisure boat which belonged to retired working boaters, has all the ingredients of above.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Ray T

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Ray T said:

A semi trad leisure boat which belonged to retired working boaters, has all the ingredients of above.

I never said I'd got any objection to people who want to do this, just that it's not for me. It would be nice if some other people took the same view... 😉

[Captain Pegg]

Surely that post by @Ray T was answering queries and comments by @Tonka and @Goliath ??

 

Not sure why it warranted that response or the little dig at other posters.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Surely that post by @Ray T was answering queries and comments by @Tonka and @Goliath ??

 

Not sure why it warranted that response or the little dig at other posters.

 

Agreed, there was an intimation that a semi trad boat would not have a mop, a can and a chimney. Ray merely demonstrated that it was entirely possible.

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Surely that post by @Ray T was answering queries and comments by @Tonka and @Goliath ??

 

Not sure why it warranted that response or the little dig at other posters.

Because I'm fed up with other posters insisting that their choice is best and somebody else's is inferior as if it's a fact, when it's simply their opinion of what they like or don't.

 

Like I keep saying, different people like different things in boats; I might not like somebody else's choices (and vice versa) but that doesn't mean they're wrong -- rivets and water can and mop and brass and shiny engine room for example, if that's what people want to do (preserving tradition?) then it's their choice and their boat, good for them.

 

My complaint is that some other posters seem unwilling to extend the same courtesy to people with different opinions to them -- if you don't believe me go back over this thread, or indeed many other ones, and see how many posts are basically saying "you're wrong, you should be doing this" rather than trying to provide a useful answer to the question.

 

Happens all the time on CWDF, and is probably why a lot of people disappear and don't come back, especially newbies... 😞

Edited September 17, 2023 by IanD

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

Agreed, there was an intimation that a semi trad boat would not have a mop, a can and a chimney. Ray merely demonstrated that it was entirely possible.

My daft comments were simply implying there’ll be no chimney on IanD’s boat to rest a mop or can by. 

The boat being all electric. 
 

 

 

[magnetman]

One could use a traditional chimney to route all the hot air. 

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Because I'm fed up with other posters insisting that their way is best and somebody else's is inferior as if it's a fact, when it's simply their opinion of what's best *for them*.

 

Like I keep saying, different people like different things in boats; I might not like somebody else's choices (and vice versa) but that doesn't mean they're wrong -- rivets and water can and mop and brass and shiny engine room for example, if that's what people want to do (preserving tradition?) then it's their choice and their boat, good for them.

 

My complaint is that some other posters seem unwilling to extend the same courtesy to people with different views to them... 😞

 

What actually seems to annoy you is that people dare to give their opinon on the subject matter at hand rather than a direct answer to the specific question you asked. I suspect that's a function of the way your brain works. Unfortunately for you the rest of the forum membership doesn't work the way you want it to. You assume that's their fault and respond by showing your frustration far too readily and with a posting style that I think grates with many members. What I think most contributors to this thread will have experienced is that you asked for advice on fenders, they gave you plenty, and then had it rudely thrown back at them. Largely because they didn't take the initial question in as literal a sense as you intended. No one here will be bothered if you choose a long button rather than a tipcat. But they will have noticed how you've used negative descriptions of other people's boats in the course of the thread as a means of justifying your own preference.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Goliath said:

My daft comments were simply implying there’ll be no chimney on IanD’s boat to rest a mop or can by. 

The boat being all electric. 
 

 

 

 

Are you sure about that? 😉

[IanD]

11 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

What actually seems to annoy you is that people dare to give their opinon on the subject matter at hand rather than a direct answer to the specific question you asked. I suspect that's a function of the way your brain works. Unfortunately for you the rest of the forum membership doesn't work the way you want it to. You assume that's their fault and respond by showing your frustration far too readily and with a posting style that I think grates with many members. What I think most contributors to this thread will have experienced is that you asked for advice on fenders, they gave you plenty, and then had it rudely thrown back at them. Largely because they didn't take the initial question in as literal a sense as you intended. No one here will be bothered if you choose a long button rather than a tipcat. But they will have noticed how you've used negative descriptions of other people's boats in the course of the thread as a means of justifying your own preference.

 

 

 

I have absolutely no objection to people giving helpful well-meaning advice, I've found this useful in the past and have thanked people for it, including on this thread. What I do object to is the attitude "you don't know what you're talking about because you don't live on a boat" or patronisingly trying to tell me something as if I'm too stupid to have considered the pros and cons before doing something, the fender issue being a perfect example. Yes of course I'd thought about using a tipcat and a short button, and decided against it because it would still be too long, the very reason I started the entire post.

 

And you're interpreting my comments as negative descriptions of other people's boats, which are just like many people have posted negative comments on mine -- except I always try and make it clear that, like taste in beer, just because somebody else's boat isn't to my taste doesn't mean it's in any way inferior, it's just their choice. I don't do what some other posters do and say "you're doing it wrong" or "it's not like a "real" boat" or "proper boaters wouldn't do that" -- see for example any discussion on bow thrusters, or pumpout toilets. Opinions are fine, as the old joke say they're like a*seholes, everyone's got one, and of course I don't have any objection to them, the world would be boring if everyone thought the same -- but opinions being put forward as fact, that I do object to.

 

Like I've said many times, I'm not trying to force my preferences on anyone else, I make my own choices based on my requirements not yours (Yorkshire sense, not personal...), and if they're not what you would have chosen -- well, it's not your boat... 😉

 

Of course I can't make everyone else on the forum think the same way as me, but equally I'm not going to just sit back and say nothing when derogatory comments are flung in my direction -- as I'm sure you wouldn't... 🙂

 

P.S. Thanks to @Binkie's Grandson for coming up with the goods, and everyone else who was helpful -- showing that CWDF *does* work, even if it sometimes gets a bit acrimonious in the process 🙂

Edited September 18, 2023 by IanD
typos

[haggis]

Thank you for explaining how things look from your perspective but I think part of the reason why you may get what you think of as adverse comments is because of how others on the forum "see" you. 

Since you joined, there have been many instances of topics where you have given us the benefit of your wide knowledge at great length and this gives the impression that everyone else is wrong. I am sure this is not what you mean but that is how it comes over. This and the fact that you seem to be so knowledgeable on so many subjects does perhaps make those of us with lesser knowledge of many subjects react a bit to your posts. 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Thank you for explaining how things look from your perspective but I think part of the reason why you may get what you think of as adverse comments is because of how others on the forum "see" you. 

Since you joined, there have been many instances of topics where you have given us the benefit of your wide knowledge at great length and this gives the impression that everyone else is wrong. I am sure this is not what you mean but that is how it comes over. This and the fact that you seem to be so knowledgeable on so many subjects does perhaps make those of us with lesser knowledge of many subjects react a bit to your posts. 

 

I do try hard to see the point of view of "the other side", and am perfectly happy to admit I'm wrong when I've made an error, and there are plenty of people on CWDF who I respect for their knowledge and experience which exceeds mine -- but there are also lots who either post "facts" which are just plain wrong, or try and make out that their (subjective) opinion is somehow "better" than other people's opinion, both of which annoy me just a tad... 😉

 

I also have wide engineering knowledge, and if there's something I don't know much about I'll go and read up on it -- not just blog posts by people who may know little more (but think they do), but try and find sources who actually know what they're talking about. For example on things like hull/rudder/prop design and boat propulsion/handling and power/speed there's a lot of information out there in the marine engineering field, not just based on theoretical analysis but also actual testing, which is pretty much completely ignored by the canal world, and people make statements which completely contradict this in spite of lots of solid evidence to the contrary -- which they either don't know about or ignore. But you have to understand the differences between a ship in deep water and a narrowboat in a shallow narrow canal, because they don't behave the same -- which is why the "bulbous bow" experiment failed.

 

And sometimes the only way to know for sure that something works is to bite the bullet and try it out, because otherwise nothing ever gets any better. So far it looks like the things I've tried out on the design of my boat (e.g. rudder/prop, generator, calorifier) have come up with the goods, but sometimes you try something new and it doesn't work and you have to write it -- and the cost -- off to experience.

 

I'm sure I do come over as argumentative to some people, maybe because I do enjoy a good debate -- preferably over a pint! -- and thrashing out solutions to things, and as an engineer I enjoy understanding how things *really* work rather than just taking things at face value or "everyone knows", because quite often this is wrong -- challenging the status quo (and coming up with better mousetraps) has been my job for many years, and I don't treat CWDF any differently... 😉

 

P.S. How on earth did we get to here from a simple question about a stern button?

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by IanD

[Tonka]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

I do try hard to see the point of view of "the other side", and am perfectly happy to admit I'm wrong when I've made an error, and there are plenty of people on CWDF who I respect for their knowledge and experience which exceeds mine -- but there are also lots who either post "facts" which are just plain wrong, or try and make out that their (subjective) opinion is somehow "better" than other people's opinion, both of which annoy me just a tad... 😉

 

I also have wide engineering knowledge, and if there's something I don't know much about I'll go and read up on it -- not just blog posts by people who may know little more (but think they do), but try and find sources who actually know what they're talking about. For example on things like hull/rudder/prop design and boat propulsion/handling and power/speed there's a lot of information out there in the marine engineering field, not just based on theoretical analysis but also actual testing, which is pretty much completely ignored by the canal world, and people make statements which completely contradict this in spite of lots of solid evidence to the contrary -- which they either don't know about or ignore. But you have to understand the differences between a ship in deep water and a narrowboat in a shallow narrow canal, because they don't behave the same -- which is why the "bulbous bow" experiment failed.

 

And sometimes the only way to know for sure that something works is to bite the bullet and try it out, because otherwise nothing ever gets any better. So far it looks like the things I've tried out on the design of my boat (e.g. rudder/prop, generator, calorifier) have come up with the goods, but sometimes you try something new and it doesn't work and you have to write it -- and the cost -- off to experience.

 

I'm sure I do come over as argumentative to some people, maybe because I do enjoy a good debate -- preferably over a pint! -- and thrashing out solutions to things, and as an engineer I enjoy understanding how things *really* work rather than just taking things at face value or "everyone knows", because quite often this is wrong -- challenging the status quo (and coming up with better mousetraps) has been my job for many years, and I don't treat CWDF any differently... 😉

 

P.S. How on earth did we get to here from a simple question about a stern button?

 

 

Can I pick your brains and ask what is the best mousetrap.  I am plagued with them at the moment