Life jackets, really?

[Ianws]

27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is an interesting thing to think about how a lifejacket could cause problems for someone who is constantly on and off their boat which may have a small stern deck like a trad narrow boat, may involve using ladders and ropes etc. 

 

Ideally you want to be wearing as little as possible for these activities. 

 

Lock keeping activities it makes sense as you are not getting on and off boats on a regular basis. 

 

On balance it may be safer for single handed boat operators to not wear a life jacket under any circumstances for a number of different reasons. 

 

Lifejacket gives you a false sense of security - it does not mean you will survive falling in.

 

Lifejacket is extra gear when ideally you want to be wearing nothing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of interest what were the actions which preceded this event? 

 

It sounds a little unusual and an explanation may help others avoid the same rather unfortunate mishap. 

 

 

Working the locks while wearing nothing would certainly entertain the gongoozlers. 

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Ianws said:

Working the locks while wearing nothing would certainly entertain the gongoozlers. 

Agreed, this is a step too far.

 

Wearing suitable clothing for any activity is sensible: a close fitting modern lifejacket is not going to interfere with the wearer's actions or make him reckless, the human psyche does not work that way.

Edited August 3, 2023 by LadyG

[LadyG]

15 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

You often see hire boat crews with little kids in horrible orange ones nearly as big as they are with no under strap, you just know if the poor kids fall in it will just pop over their head like a cork from a bottle fizz  

A lot of kiddies lifejackets look to be step in rather than crotch strap.

PS looking at ads for lifejackets, some of the cheaper lines sell the arming kit as a sepate item!

14 hours ago, Puffling said:

A solo boater falling in a deep lock wearing a proper life jacket would not immediately lose their life due to cold water. However, if they were unable to use the emergency ladder (fractured pelvis, dislocated shoulder for example) they might succumb to hypothermia should there be no other person within earshot for an hour or two.

 

Should we then advocate for solo boaters to carry VHF radios with a DSC feature on their person at all times?

Vhf of course is line of sight, not sure its going to be very effective in a lock 

Edited August 3, 2023 by LadyG

[Momac]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I fairly sure that DSC is not allowed to be used 'inland',

Not so

Maybe you are thinking that ATIS is used in some countries (not the UK where ATIS is prohibited)

[Tonka]

7 hours ago, magnetman said:

It is an interesting thing to think about how a lifejacket could cause problems for someone who is constantly on and off their boat which may have a small stern deck like a trad narrow boat, may involve using ladders and ropes etc. 

 

Ideally you want to be wearing as little as possible for these activities. 

 

 

Lifejacket is extra gear when ideally you want to be wearing nothing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you need is Flotation clothing. See image

[howardang]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

Agreed, this is a step too far.

 

Wearing suitable clothing for any activity is sensible: a close fitting modern lifejacket is not going to interfere with the wearer's actions or make him reckless, the human psyche does not work that way.

Dress for the weather of course but whatever you wear please make sure that when wearing an inflating life jacket that it is worn outside any other clothing. It horrifies me when I see people put on a lifejacket inside a waterproof jacket or similar outer clothing. It will at the very least least restrict the operation of any inflating jacket and prevent the LJ from providing protection, and could lead to the wearer getting into severe difficulties. I have seen this habit more and more over recent years and it seldom mentioned when the subject of lifejacket wearing crops up.

 

Howard

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, howardang said:

Dress for the weather of course but whatever you wear please make sure that when wearing an inflating life jacket that it is worn outside any other clothing. It horrifies me when I see people put on a lifejacket inside a waterproof jacket or similar outer clothing. It will at the very least least restrict the operation of any inflating jacket and prevent the LJ from providing protection, and could lead to the wearer getting into severe difficulties. I have seen this habit more and more over recent years and it seldom mentioned when the subject of lifejacket wearing crops up.

 

Howard

which is why they have invented flotation clothing. See the photo above your post

[Rob-M]

15 minutes ago, howardang said:

Dress for the weather of course but whatever you wear please make sure that when wearing an inflating life jacket that it is worn outside any other clothing. It horrifies me when I see people put on a lifejacket inside a waterproof jacket or similar outer clothing. It will at the very least least restrict the operation of any inflating jacket and prevent the LJ from providing protection, and could lead to the wearer getting into severe difficulties. I have seen this habit more and more over recent years and it seldom mentioned when the subject of lifejacket wearing crops up.

 

Howard

I pick volunteers up on this regularly especially if I am the person in charge.  I point out to them that if they fall in and the jacket inflated instead of turning them on to their back and keeping their face out of the water it may cause the hood of their waterproof to fill with water and pull their head under therefore keeping their face under water.

[Puffling]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Not so

Maybe you are thinking that ATIS is used in some countries (not the UK where ATIS is prohibited)

ICOM agrees with you

https://icomuk.co.uk/Can-I-use-a-Handheld-DSC-radio-on-inland-waters-in-the-UK/4055/1613/

[Tonka]

7 minutes ago, Puffling said:

ICOM agrees with you

https://icomuk.co.uk/Can-I-use-a-Handheld-DSC-radio-on-inland-waters-in-the-UK/4055/1613/

I thought aircraft used ATIS and is used at Heathrow

[GUMPY]

Automatic Transmitter Identification System

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Transmitter_Identification_System_(marine)

 

I have it on my VHF but not allowed to use it in UK

[Machpoint005]

20 hours ago, Puffling said:

>>Should we then advocate for solo boaters to carry VHF radios with a DSC feature on their person at all times?

 

Does a VHF radio work underwater when the operator is unconscious?

 

 

 

[Tonka]

17 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Automatic Transmitter Identification System

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Transmitter_Identification_System_(marine)

 

I have it on my VHF but not allowed to use it in UK

That is the problem with Abreviations. There are too many of them. You are allowed to use the Automatic Terminal Information System and you get good weather info from it

[GUMPY]

16 minutes ago, Tonka said:

That is the problem with Abreviations. There are too many of them. You are allowed to use the Automatic Terminal Information System and you get good weather info from it

Can it change the weather down here? I'm fed up with all this wet stuff😟

[Tonka]

7 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Can it change the weather down here? I'm fed up with all this wet stuff😟

I said good weather info not good weather 

[magnetman]

 

I sometimes hear ATIS radios over channel 14 on the London boat. One of the VTS radio operators picks them up and asks if the boat is UK registered. If it is he tells them they must have it deactivated.

 

Most people ignore and don't worry but this one VTS man called Frank always picks it up. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by magnetman

[howardang]

6 hours ago, Tonka said:

which is why they have invented flotation clothing. See the photo above your post

There are indeed may such flotation devices available and have been for many years. Marine Pilots and other marine professionals wear heavy weather jackets which incorporate built in life jackets and safety harnesses. Indeed there was a period in my life where I wore something similar,  but that type of jacket can be extremely expensive and so is not popular with leisure wearers. For example, I have seen some jackets costing well in excess of £1,000 although of course other similar equipment can be found at lower cost. One manufacturer for example is Seasafe who have a comprehensive range.

 

Howard

 

 

[Dav and Pen]

I have never worn a life jacket on the canals or even the English rivers but when we had the NB in Ireland we did wear self inflating ones whilst on the big lakes for if someone fell in it would be some time before the boat could get back alongside the casualty. For our camping boats we supplied the passengers with the old fashioned jackets and some of the kids wore them all the time. After we brought the barge in Belgium Life jackets were compulsory equipment for all crew and in the big river locks there are notices requiring them to be worn and after the regulations for bigger boats came in we had to have a notice in the wheelhouse giving the actions to be taken in the event of a man over board

and we also had to have  a method of recovering the person. In addition two life buoys and a buoy with a flashing light to be thrown in with the lifebuoy. The life jackets could be inspected at any time along with fire extinguishers by the river police. 
 

[system 4-50]

When my lifejacket inflates, the expansion of the gas makes it very, very, cold.  If I was already in cold water this would an added hazard.

[Momac]

24 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

When my lifejacket inflates, the expansion of the gas makes it very, very, cold.  If I was already in cold water this would an added hazard.

Assuming that's a real issue what do you conclude from that observation ?

 

 

 

[Tonka]

20 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Assuming that's a real issue what do you conclude from that observation ?

 

 

 

Don't immerse in water

[system 4-50]

26 minutes ago, MartynG said:

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

When my lifejacket inflates, the expansion of the gas makes it very, very, cold.  If I was already in cold water this would an added hazard.

Assuming that's a real issue what do you conclude from that observation ?

There is a risk of my glasses fogging up?

[LadyG]

Ok, well I'm probably going to buy a simple type from Seago, no need for light or spray hood, I think that easy fitting is a priority, so plastic push buckles rather than the fiddly metal type if possible.

[rusty69]

23 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Ok, well I'm probably going to buy a simple type from Seago, no need for light or spray hood, I think that easy fitting is a priority, so plastic push buckles rather than the fiddly metal type if possible.

Crewsaver jackets cost a little more, but having had a couple of Seago jackets in the past that were under a recall notice, I would not opt for them again.

 

Something like the crewsaver crewfit 165N sport automatic vest might be a good choice.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Crewsaver jackets cost a little more, but having had a couple of Seago jackets in the past that were under a recall notice, I would not opt for them again.

 

Something like the crewsaver crewfit 165N sport automatic vest might be a good choice.

https://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/2023-crewsaver-crewfit-165n-sport-automatic-lifejacket-9710nba-navy-p-34402.html

 

Free postage (unlike a lot of other sites) and £5 off your first order, so £75 delivered 🙂