Life jackets, really?

[Bubblebuster]

When going through or hanging around locks maybe, but for just cruising along? And why are some so expensive anyway!

[Hudds Lad]

6 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

When going through or hanging around locks maybe, but for just cruising along? And why are some so expensive anyway!

Guess it boils down to your personal sense of safety for canals, i'd wear one on a river personally if it had flow.

As to expense, shop around, some places punt the same item for twice the price of others. Think ours came from Wetsuit Outlet which were way cheaper than others at the time.

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Guess it boils down to your personal sense of safety for canals, i'd wear one on a river personally if it had flow.

As to expense, shop around, some places punt the same item for twice the price of others. Think ours came from Wetsuit Outlet which were way cheaper than others at the time.

The same lifejacket (Crewsaver Crewfit Sport Automatic Harness 165N) is £112.22 at Midland Chandlers and £84.95 at Wetsuit Outlet -- or £79.95 for the one without a strongpoint which is only needed to fasten a safety line to a yacht...

Edited August 2, 2023 by IanD

[PCSB]

Usually cheaper from marine chandlers. I got ours from Marine Superstore based in Port Solent. They were the cheapest at the time but always worth shopping around. Some lifejackets are better than others too so cheapest isn't always best. Crewsaver and Seago are decent brands.

[pearley]

We're on the Great Ouse so always wear mine.

[Hudds Lad]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

The same lifejacket (Crewsaver Crewfit Sport Automatic Harness 165N) is £112.22 at Midland Chandlers and £84.95 at Wetsuit Outlet -- or £79.95 for the one without a strongpoint which is only needed to fasten a safety line to a yacht...

Looking at my receipts they were £74.95 in 2021, so not gone up a great deal.

But they do free shipping which you don't get with Midland, unless you use their eBay store for some reason 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Hudds Lad
add detail

[tree monkey]

46 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

When going through or hanging around locks maybe, but for just cruising along? And why are some so expensive anyway!

It's a personal choice/risk assessment but what did supprise  me is how deep a section of the Walsall canal actually was when I voluntarily went in, standing on some debris of unknown origin the water was up to my chin.

 

The above waffle basically means don't be too quick to scoff, not that I will be wearing one but I am a little more cautious now

[mrsmelly]

48 minutes ago, Bubblebuster said:

When going through or hanging around locks maybe, but for just cruising along? And why are some so expensive anyway!

Its a simple one to answer, ask yourself just one question that being can you breath under water? If the answer is no, then you need a lifejacket. You can slip and knock yourself out or any manner of things. Modern self inflating life jackets are so good that properly adjusted you do not know you are wearing one. The cost when you consider boating costs fully is less than peanuts. Most of us are stupid enough as to not wear one when cruising though. I only wore mine on rivers cos I am stupid.

[Paul C]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Its a simple one to answer, ask yourself just one question that being can you breath under water? If the answer is no, then you need a lifejacket. You can slip and knock yourself out or any manner of things. Modern self inflating life jackets are so good that properly adjusted you do not know you are wearing one. The cost when you consider boating costs fully is less than peanuts. Most of us are stupid enough as to not wear one when cruising though. I only wore mine on rivers cos I am stupid.

That’s a good argument for always boating with someone, and not being alone.

[IanD]

42 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

It's a personal choice/risk assessment but what did supprise  me is how deep a section of the Walsall canal actually was when I voluntarily went in, standing on some debris of unknown origin the water was up to my chin.

 

The above waffle basically means don't be too quick to scoff, not that I will be wearing one but I am a little more cautious now

 

I would also wear one on rivers where there is a flow, because if you fall overboard and bash your head on the way in you'll be carried away from the boat by the current and possibly rolled underwater -- this is probably a bigger risk than the increased depth, some canals (and locks) are deep as was pointed out but you're in still water near the boat so much easier to find and retrieve quickly by the crew even if unconscious.

 

Having said that, many years ago my brother-in-law was on a boating holiday with mates on the deep canals in Cheshire (built up due to subsidence) and late at night one of them fell in and drowned, IIRC after returning from the pub which might explain why he wasn't rescued... 😞

 

For a lone boater the risk on canals is higher because there's probably nobody to rescue you if this happens, so there's a good argument for always wearing one. Or even if there are two of you and one is inside making the tea and doesn't notice you've disappeared off the stern... 😉

Edited August 2, 2023 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

That’s a good argument for always boating with someone, and not being alone.

Indeed, that helps. I was trained re safety by the best in the World, that is the Royal Navy. Way back then in the early 1970s and they had done it for years before we were told one hand for the Queen and one for yourself when working on the upper deck. We wore, and I mean everyone who worked topsides, a life jacket when working the ship, coming alongside, RAS, chipping ice off the superstructure in the arctic etc etc etc and they were old fashioned canvas and rubber things that were quite obtrusive. We were all fit young blokes but could end up overboard in seconds should something go wrong. 

[Ray T]

There is a difference between "Life Jackets" and "Buoyancy Aids."
A proper self inflating life jacket should not come off, assuming you are using the crotch strap, and will roll you face upward.

A buoyancy aid can ride up over your head, if it doesn't have a crotch strap and will not necessarily roll you face up.

(My experience, 20+ years of racing various dinghy's, in land and off shore. 25 + years of offshore in ocean going yachts.
Also, I have obtained my Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence.)

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Ray T

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Ray T said:

There is a differentiation between "Life Jackets" and "Buoyancy Aids."
A proper self inflating life jacket should not come off, assuming you are using the crotch strap, and will roll you face upward.

A buoyancy aid can ride up over your head, if it doesn't have a crotch strap and will not necessarily roll you face up.

 

 

I assume proper lifejackets like the Crewsaver is what everyone has been discussing...

[MtB]

One thing to consider is that falling in the canal is not like diving into a swimming pool. Firstly you're not planning to do it so it all comes as quite a surprise. Secondly the chances of hurting yourself on the way down are quite high. Banging your head on the gunwale as you go will knock you silly for example, and then you get immersed in cold water. Will a life jacket help? Really? 

 

Yes, obviously....

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

4 minutes ago, Ray T said:

There is a differentiation between "Life Jackets" and "Buoyancy Aids."
A proper self inflating life jacket should not come off, assuming you are using the crotch strap, and will roll you face upward.

A buoyancy aid can ride up over your head, if it doesn't have a crotch strap and will not necessarily roll you face up.

 

 

You often see hire boat crews with little kids in horrible orange ones nearly as big as they are with no under strap, you just know if the poor kids fall in it will just pop over their head like a cork from a bottle fizz  

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, Bubblebuster said:

When going through or hanging around locks maybe, but for just cruising along? And why are some so expensive anyway!

 

Some folks are unable to swim and others may have a phobia of water. If wearing a life jacket gives them reassurance even on the cut, and enables them to get afloat, so be it.

Just ask this question: "How much is a life worth?"

IMHO safety around all types of water is a serious matter.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Ray T

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, MtB said:

One thing to consider is that falling in the canal is not like diving into a swimming pool. Firstly you're not planning to do it so it all comes as quite a surprise. Secondly the chances of hurting yourself on the way down are quite high. Banging your head on the gunwale as you go will knock you silly for example, and then you get immersed in cold water. Will a life jacket help? Really? 

 

Yes, obviously....

 

 

 

That's true, but this is all a matter of risk. Boating on the canals is less risky than on rivers, boating with more people is less risky than being solo.

 

I suspect most people would agree that a solo boater on a river should *always* wear a lifejacket, and that they're not *necessary* with a big (adult) crew on UK canals.

 

I'd have thought that it makes sense for everyone on board to wear them on a river because anyone -- not just the steerer -- can fall overboard, bash their head, and disappear in the current.

 

Apart from this, what people do on canals is down to their perception of risk, there's no "right" or "wrong" answer.

 

7 minutes ago, Ray T said:

 

Just ask this question: "How much is a life worth?"

IMHO safety around all types of water is a serious matter.

 

 

And that is a perfectly valid opinion. Others may think that wearing lifejackets all the time on canals is "elf'n'safety gone mad". YMMV... 😉

 

P.S. "All types of water" doesn't make any sense -- more people drown in the bath than on canals, but nobody suggests you wear a lifejacket in the bath -- or do they? 😉

Edited August 2, 2023 by IanD

[Tonka]

14 minutes ago, Ray T said:

There is a difference between "Life Jackets" and "Buoyancy Aids."
A proper self inflating life jacket should not come off, assuming you are using the crotch strap, and will roll you face upward.

A buoyancy aid can ride up over your head, if it doesn't have a crotch strap and will not necessarily roll you face up.

(My experience, 20+ years of racing various dinghy's, in land and off shore. 25 + years of offshore in ocean going yachts.
Also, I have obtained my Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence.)

 

 

A life jacket supports your head above water if you have become unconscious. A buoyancy aid will not. Also have to look at what weight the buoyancy aid/ life jacket is designed for.

[rusty69]

It should definetly be in the BSS. One jacket for each crew member. 

[IanD]

Just now, rusty69 said:

It should definetly be in the BSS. One jacket for each crew member. 

Why, especially if the boat never goes out onto rivers?

 

Remember BSS is supposed to be about not posing danger to others, not protecting you from your own idiocy -- see skydiving, free climbing, chainsaw juggling... 😉

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

It should definetly be in the BSS. One jacket for each crew member. 

One life jacket or one buoyancy aid or one wet coat.

It doesn't effect boat safety

[rusty69]

Just now, IanD said:

Why, especially if the boat never goes out onto rivers?

 

Remember BSS is supposed to be about not posing danger to others, not protecting you from your own idiocy -- see skydiving, free climbing, chainsaw juggling... 😉

Just trying to wind Tony up to be honest. 

[Ray T]

43 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

P.S. "All types of water" doesn't make any sense -- more people drown in the bath than on canals, but nobody suggests you wear a lifejacket in the bath -- or do they? 😉

 

Yes, we can all be silly and take things to the extreme. When I sailed at Draycote Water sailing club one of the rules was that a wet or dry suit must be worn when sailing in the months of November to March. This was to stave off "Cold Shock." Cold shock response - Wikipedia

So, should it be advocated all boaters must wear dry / wet suits in the winter months when on the boat in case they fall in? 😁

Edited August 2, 2023 by Ray T

[SLC]

Read the expert evidence at the Nicola Bulley inquest. The shock and the relative cold can momentarily disable you (Cold shock response). It is not a trivial matter and cost should never be a consideration when buying life jackets.

[Puffling]

A solo boater falling in a deep lock wearing a proper life jacket would not immediately lose their life due to cold water. However, if they were unable to use the emergency ladder (fractured pelvis, dislocated shoulder for example) they might succumb to hypothermia should there be no other person within earshot for an hour or two.

 

Should we then advocate for solo boaters to carry VHF radios with a DSC feature on their person at all times?