Boat Fires

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MrsM said:

I'm in the group and there isn't much info yet as people are understandably reluctant to speculate about an incident that had led to three people loosing their boats and homes. One theory is that an ornament in a boat window reflected the sun. It was on C pontoon and the fire spread from one boat to two others. 

It's a good (and sobering) point - I remember using a magnifying glass to light campfires as a kid so it is easy to see how this could have happened on a boat when the sun is as strong as it has been. 

 

I nearly had a fire on one of our NBs.

 

The cover was off the pigeon-box, and the sun was shining thru the 'bulls-eyes' which focussed the sun into a tight 'spot' (just like the magnifying glass) The focus just happened to be onto the bed quilt.

It was fortunate that we were on-board and smelt the 'scorching' and opened the flap to change the focus.

We were very careful after that.

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

They look like normal mini portholes. Odd that they would have a magnifying lens. I seem to recall one solution to problems with bullseyes was to paint a black circle in the middle of the glass. Don't know how effective it is. 

The stainless 'flying saucer' which is an ECS Ventilite on the left does have a magnifying lens but it is plastic so maybe not as dodgy as a glass one. 

 

I really like ventilites as they don't catch on ropes. 

[Hudds Lad]

For those who really want to know, there is little real information, but this is the full post so far...

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

They look like normal mini portholes.

 

Definitely 'bulls eyes'  with a convex surface.

 

Edit to add - I also like the "spaceships", folks always say they leak.but we have always had them on our ses-going boats and also on several NBs. The ones we have had heve always an opaque plastic centre.

Much easier to use centre lines etc.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Jerra]

With regard to ornaments quartz spheres (and glass) have been known to cause fires.

[Tracy D'arth]

10 hours ago, Grassman said:

I couldn’t find a way of leaving Facebook so in the end I had to get the wife to tell Facebook that I’d passed away. It still took a month before they removed me though; apparently according to Facebook it was to allow time for people to post tributes to me! 😕

I had to die to get away from the site too.

[Mikey B.]

I can confirm that a severe fire did occur at Pillings Marina. Due to the rapid response of the local fire brigades, the damage was mitigated yet still extensive, and sadly, affected multiple boats. I know this as I have spoken to a mate who is moored there and I've seen a short video that he has taken and the extent of the fire was dreadful. Some boats were uninsured and without a BSC because they live on a marina, this has caused the marina to ban all boats without these certifications and they have been asked to leave without notice. This it would seem has affected some 25 craft. A sad day for all concerned.          

[Arthur Marshall]

Probably why most marinas insist on BSCs, insurance and licences. Presumably Pillings is one of those where you don't need a CRT licence.

Not that if it was started by an ornament, any of them would have no difference at all . Does seem a bit of an over-reaction but I seem to remember trouble there a few years back.

ETA if the boats are unlicenced, where on earth are they going to go?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Arthur Marshall

[Hudds Lad]

Interesting, we had to give proof of BSSC, insurance and licence at the three marinas we’ve moored at before they’d give us a berth. I know some dont require a licence once you’re there due to water rights etc. but figured the other two would be mandatory if only to cover their own arses?

[Alan de Enfield]

11 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Interesting, we had to give proof of BSSC, insurance and licence at the three marinas we’ve moored at before they’d give us a berth. I know some dont require a licence once you’re there due to water rights etc. but figured the other two would be mandatory if only to cover their own arses?

 

Agreed, even NON-NAA marinas have always insited in a minimum of insurance, and some, noth Insurance & a BSS

[Hudds Lad]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agreed, even NON-NAA marinas have always insited in a minimum of insurance, and some, noth Insurance & a BSS

Isn't Pillings the place that had the big argument with CRT about the NAA not so long ago?

[matty40s]

1 minute ago, Hudds Lad said:

Isn't Pillings the place that had the big argument with CRT about the NAA not so long ago?

Oh yes, dropped itself into administration to save itself £180k I seem to remember. Puppet director(student) installed in the new company who disappeared as soon as he appeared.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Hudds Lad said:

Isn't Pillings the place that had the big argument with CRT about the NAA not so long ago?

 

Yup, thats the one.

 

Didn't pay their NAA fees and when the got up to £170,000 overdue C&RT threatened to close the entrance, The marina then declared bancrupty and started up a new company under the nominal directorship of the student who worked their on Weekends.

 

Its also the company that sabotaged peoples boats by removing things like the oil , or drain plug so if they tried to leave the marina the engine would sieze.

 

A thorougly nasty piece of work !!!

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yup, thats the one.

 

Didn't pay their NAA fees and when the got up to £170,000 overdue C&RT threatened to close the entrance, The marina then declared bancrupty and started up a new company under the nominal directorship of the student who worked their on Weekends.

 

Its also the company that sabotaged peoples boats by removing things like the oil , or drain plug so if they tried to leave the marina the engine would sieze.

 

A thorougly nasty piece of work !!!

But as I understand it, CRT and Pillings eventually came to an agreement, which I would have thought meant they entered into a Network Access Agreement, as a condition of which, all craft in the marine should be licenced, and thus insured (3rd party minimum) and have a current BSC. And CRT would have a right of access to inspect from time to time.

[magnetman]

I don't think 3rd party would cover fire. 

 

3rd party unsurance is needed for boat licensing but if a boat caught fire and took out pontoons and hardware then would the owner of the pontoons be able to claim from the boat owner unsurance? 

 

Having said that one might expect the business itself to have unsurance. 

 

They must have a healthy waiting list if they can kick out that many boats without notice. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, magnetman said:

They must have a healthy waiting list if they can kick out that many boats without notice. 

 

 

More likely that they have a partly used pontoon and, if they can empty it, then they will pay less on the NAA.

 

Arson does seem to be a drastic way to get rid of moorers tho' - even for Pillings !!

59 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But as I understand it, CRT and Pillings eventually came to an agreement, which I would have thought meant they entered into a Network Access Agreement, as a condition of which, all craft in the marine should be licenced, and thus insured (3rd party minimum) and have a current BSC. And CRT would have a right of access to inspect from time to time.

 

I never heard of that outcome, but I know they came to an agreement that if they removed unused pontoons (reduced their capacity) they would pay less NAA

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

But as I understand it, CRT and Pillings eventually came to an agreement, which I would have thought meant they entered into a Network Access Agreement, as a condition of which, all craft in the marine should be licenced, and thus insured (3rd party minimum) and have a current BSC. And CRT would have a right of access to inspect from time to time.

They already had a NAA, which they defaulted on. CRT had no choice but to set up a new one with the Phoenix company. They also allowed Pillings to take about 3 pontoons out of use so the NAA was only paid on actual moorers rather than potential berths available like every other marina has to pay.

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, matty40s said:

They already had a NAA, which they defaulted on. CRT had no choice but to set up a new one with the Phoenix company. They also allowed Pillings to take about 3 pontoons out of use so the NAA was only paid on actual moorers rather than potential berths available like every other marina has to pay.

But if there is a NAA in place, regardless of the number of berths it covers, shouldn't all boats in the marina be licenced?

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I don't think 3rd party would cover fire. 

 

3rd party unsurance is needed for boat licensing but if a boat caught fire and took out pontoons and hardware then would the owner of the pontoons be able to claim from the boat owner unsurance? 

If a boat caught fire as a result of something wrong with the boat, such as an electrical fault, 3rd party insurance would not pay out for damage to that boat, but it would pay out for damage to any other property, such as other craft or pontoons damaged as a result of the fire. The problem may be in identifying the cause of the fire, and thus determining whose insurance should bear the cost.

Edited June 15, 2023 by David Mack

[matty40s]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But if there is a NAA in place, regardless of the number of berths it covers, shouldn't all boats in the marina be licenced?

This is Pillings Lock we are talking about.

Rules and t&c dont mean as much in some places than others.

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, matty40s said:

This is Pillings Lock we are talking about.

Rules and t&c dont mean as much in some places than others.

There is that!

[Ewan123]

On 13/06/2023 at 22:51, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Don’t they? Seams there’s loads of them on the London boaters groups. I would say more so than on here.

That's probably because London has a higher proportion of young boaters than elsewhere in the country (in my experience). Also this forum is mostly just full of grumpy old folk, grumping about the yoofs

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

That's probably because London has a higher proportion of young boaters than elsewhere in the country (in my experience). Also this forum is mostly just full of grumpy old folk, grumping about the yoofs

 

Or possibly grumping about the "entitled" yoofs who seem to have no manners when they are expected to help answer their questions or go off in a hump if the answers they get are not what they wanted.

[Ewan123]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Or possibly grumping about the "entitled" yoofs who seem to have no manners when they are expected to help answer their questions or go off in a hump if the answers they get are not what they wanted.

Yes, that too. 

[IanD]

19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Or possibly grumping about the "entitled" yoofs who seem to have no manners when they are expected to help answer their questions or go off in a hump if the answers they get are not what they wanted.

I don't think it's only "yoofs"... 😉

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

10 hours ago, Ewan123 said:

That's probably because London has a higher proportion of young boaters than elsewhere in the country (in my experience). Also this forum is mostly just full of grumpy old folk, grumping about the yoofs

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth