What to do about aggressive cyclists

[LadyG]

As title, walking on the towpath with windlass in one hand and Calder and Hebble spike in the other.

An adult came past, on the inside, with respect to my boat, and essentially told me to get out of the way, followed by two others, with no comment but they were fairly close and fairly fast. I was annoyed so threw my spike on the ground at the last one, he's got annoyed. He told me they were ringing a bell "for ages". 

Now I did not hear any bell, it was quite windy, but regardless, I consider that a pedestrian has the right of way over these cyclists. They could easily have slowed down, or diverted from the towpath but they did not. They could see me, it must be obvious I can't see them.

I'm going to log this with CRT as it's time they did something about it.

 

[Tonka]

Wasting your time unfortunately.

[Kendorr]

As a cyclist, I do find comments like this to be quite embarrassing, there's just no need for it. Unfortunately in all walks of life there are those people who feel they are above the law and they can do whatever they want. 

 

I don't know what the answer is, but this Yorkshire cyclist and his mates are always courteous to others when we cycle the towpaths, or the cycle paths, or the roads.

 

[SteveLevis]

I boat and cycle towpaths and I always slow down, ring bell, and take extra care when passing pedestrians. Just seems to be common courtesy as they have the right of way?

 

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

As title, walking on the towpath with windlass in one hand and Calder and Hebble spike in the other.

An adult came past, on the inside, with respect to my boat, and essentially told me to get out of the way, followed by two others, with no comment but they were fairly close and fairly fast. I was annoyed so threw my spike on the ground at the last one, he's got annoyed. He told me they were ringing a bell "for ages". 

Now I did not hear any bell, it was quite windy, but regardless, I consider that a pedestrian has the right of way over these cyclists. They could easily have slowed down, or diverted from the towpath but they did not. They could see me, it must be obvious I can't see them.

I'm going to log this with CRT as it's time they did something about it.

 

 

You consider wrongly. CART rules say that both pedestrians and cyclists have equal rights to use the towpath, and should behave considerately towards each other.

 

Aggressive cyclists should take this advice, there's no excuse for bad behaviour. As should deaf-to-the-world pedestrians walking down the middle of a wide towpath with their nose in a phone or headphones on, unable to hear a polite "ting" from a cyclist... 😉

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[LadyG]

35 minutes ago, Kendorr said:

As a cyclist, I do find comments like this to be quite embarrassing, there's just no need for it. Unfortunately in all walks of life there are those people who feel they are above the law and they can do whatever they want. 

 

I don't know what the answer is, but this Yorkshire cyclist and his mates are always courteous to others when we cycle the towpaths, or the cycle paths, or the roads.

 

I'm glad of that, as a former cyclist I would always slow down if in doubt.

Edited April 17, 2023 by LadyG

[PCSB]

In my experience so far the vast majority of cyclists behave with courtesy - I've had one incident where I didn't hear the bell (woolly hat over ears and not the best of hearing) - easily resolved with a friendly apology both sides. And had one incident where a cyclist came through a bridge quite quickly not realising I was there with the pooch. Again easily resolved with a friendly word on both sides. Hopefully it continues to be so.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm glad of that, as a former cyclist I would always slow down if in doud

As I do. Most pedestrians are happy to be warned you're coming with a "ting ting" and will step to one side, some even say "thanks" for the warning to which I reply "You're welcome" -- and if not I always say "Ta" as I pass.

 

Occasionally you get someone who is either so engrossed in their phone that they're unable to notice what's going on around them, or deaf to the world with headphones on -- sometimes even a loud "Hello!" or "Excuse me" fails to get through, I've had to stop and tap them on the shoulder before they notice what's going on. That's just as inconsiderate to polite cyclists as aggressive cyclists are to some pedestrians.

 

Usual rule in all walks of life -- pedestrian, cyclists, drivers, boaters, some of them are selfish gits, but many (most?) aren't so don't tar everyone with the same brush... 😉

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[GUMPY]

 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

 

Too fast + didn't slow down and look + no bell = no sympathy... 😉

 

I've had the same experience with idiot cyclists doing the same, and it always seems that you meet them under blind bridges... 😞

[GUMPY]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Too fast + didn't slow down and look + no bell = no sympathy... 😉

 

I've had the same experience with idiot cyclists doing the same, and it always seems that you meet them under blind bridges... 😞

No sympathy at all it always amuses me 😂

[LadyG]

passing someone,g

13 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

You consider wrongly. CART rules say that both pedestrians and cyclists have equal rights to use the towpath, and should behave considerately towards each other.

 

Aggressive cyclists should take this advice. As should deaf-to-the-world pedestrians walking down the middle of a wide towpath with their nose in a phone or headphones on, unable to hear a polite "ting" from a cyclist... 😉

Sorry, but the cyclist is overtaking the pedestrian, it has to be his duty to make his presence known and to avoid the pedestrian. It's obvious who is the aggressor in this incident. The fact that I did not move over at all should have made them more cautious. I could not hear them, lots of older people have diminished hearing, and some people are deaf. 

[IanD]

Just now, LadyG said:

passing someone,g

Sorry, but the cyclist is overtaking the pedestrian, it has to be his duty to make his presence known and to avoid the pedestrian. It's obvious who is the aggressor in this incident. The fact that I did not move over at all should have made them more cautious. I could not hear them, lots of older people have diminished hearing, and some people are deaf. 

 

I didn't say the cyclist in your case was in the right, I said that both cyclists and pedestrians have equal rights to use the towpath, pedestrians don't have right of way -- and neither do cyclists. Aggressive or ignorant/stupid behaviour is wrong no matter which side it comes from.

 

In your case it indeed sounds as if the blame was with the cyclist -- but if they were "ringing a bell for ages" and you took no notice (or didn't hear) and didn't move to let them past (assuming these was room...) then they could have good reason for getting annoyed with you -- but then cyclists need to allow for pedestrians who may be hard of hearing too. There are two sides to every story... 😉

[haggis]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

.

 

Occasionally you get someone who is either so engrossed in their phone that they're unable to notice what's going on around them, or deaf to the world with headphones on -- sometimes even a loud "Hello!" or "Excuse me" fails to get through

.. 

I think you missed out a very good reason why pedestrians don't always hear bikes coming up behind them. They may be deaf or partially deaf . I wear pretty expensive hearing aids but even they don't enable me to hear noises behind me . I don't know why as they work in all other directions. 

What do you suggest I do when walking on the towpath? Walk backwards or keep turning and looking behind and risk falling in the canal ? 

We all have to consider others.

 

 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, haggis said:

I think you missed out a very good reason why pedestrians don't always hear bikes coming up behind them. They may be deaf or partially deaf . I wear pretty expensive hearing aids but even they don't enable me to hear noises behind me . I don't know why as they work in all other directions. 

What do you suggest I do when walking on the towpath? Walk backwards or keep turning and looking behind and risk falling in the canal ? 

We all have to consider others.

 

 

Of course we do, and especially if the pedestrian is older I'll always consider that they may be hard of hearing or possibly deaf, and take extra care, and slow down and ring again. As you say, it's called being considerate -- I both walk and cycle the towpath, I can see both points of view, but some people don't seem to even bother to try... 😞

 

But as for the yoof with big headphones on who wouldn't hear an express train coming... 😉

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[Mad Harold]

4 minutes ago, haggis said:

I think you missed out a very good reason why pedestrians don't always hear bikes coming up behind them. They may be deaf or partially deaf . I wear pretty expensive hearing aids but even they don't enable me to hear noises behind me . I don't know why as they work in all other directions. 

What do you suggest I do when walking on the towpath? Walk backwards or keep turning and looking behind and risk falling in the canal ? 

We all have to consider others.

 

 

When my hearing started to deteriorate, the first thing I noticed is that it became 'non directional'

In other words although I could hear mainly ok, but couldn't tell if a voice or noise was behind me or in front.

It's a nuisance when crossing the road as I have to be more careful as when hearing traffic it takes me more time to realise which direction it is coming from.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Deaf as I am, and worse after a day above the engine, I can't hear bike bells although I don't think many cyclists bother with them anyway. The frequency is too high for my ears - I can't hear most birdsong or the dishwasher telling me it's done its stuff. I tend to lurch a bit these days when walking, too, and work on the principle that a cyclist is just going to have to get round me. Me and the stick take up a fair bit of space.

Back home on a walkway between houses, I did put a cyclist into the hedge a month or so back. Not intentionally, she was belting round a blind corner in the dark, no lights, I never saw or heard her coming. She saw me at the last moment, swerved, and crash. Didn't get any sympathy.

2 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

When my hearing started to deteriorate, the first thing I noticed is that it became 'non directional'

In other words although I could hear mainly ok, but couldn't tell if a voice or noise was behind me or in front.

It's a nuisance when crossing the road as I have to be more careful as when hearing traffic it takes me more time to realise which direction it is coming from.

 

My right ear hasnt worked properly for fifty years, so I don't get stereo or directions.

[LadyG]

24 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I didn't say the cyclist in your case was in the right, I said that both cyclists and pedestrians have equal rights to use the towpath, pedestrians don't have right of way -- and neither do cyclists. Aggressive or ignorant/stupid behaviour is wrong no matter which side it comes from.

 

In your case it indeed sounds as if the blame was with the cyclist -- but if they were "ringing a bell for ages" and you took no notice (or didn't hear) and didn't move to let them past (assuming these was room...) then they could have good reason for getting annoyed with you -- but then cyclists need to allow for pedestrians who may be hard of hearing too. There are two sides to every story... 😉

They were hardly inconvenienced as they did not slow down, I definitely heard nothing, wind was in wrong direction. I'm not convinced about ringing the bell for ages bit, I mean one normally rings the bell when near enough to the pedestrian and if they show no sign of hearing, and are obstructing the route, then one might ring furiously, but either way you need to be ready to stop to avoid collision. Even if I had heard a bell I don't think I would have stepped off the towpath to allow them to pass. They can go on the grass.

What annoyed me was the comment suggesting I should get out of the way, most cyclists will thank you as they pass, acknowledging that you have been aware of them. I was not aware of their presence so they should be careful, and certainly not aggressive.

 

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

They were hardly inconvenienced as they did not slow down, I definitely heard nothing, wind was in wrong direction. I'm not convinced about ringing the bell for ages bit, I mean one normally rings the bell when near enough to the pedestrian and if they show no sign of hearing, and are obstructing the route, then one might ring furiously, but either way you need to be ready to stop to avoid collision. Even if I had heard a bell I don't think I would have stepped off the towpath to allow them to pass. They can go on the grass.

What annoyed me was the comment suggesting I should get out of the way, most cyclists will thank you as they pass, acknowledging that you have been aware of them. I was not aware of their presence so they should be careful, and certainly not aggressive.

 

 

But of course if the towpath was wide enough and you'd heard them coming, if you were being considerate you should have moved aside to let them pass, shouldn't you? At least, that's probably how it seemed to them...😉

 

I'm in no way excusing inconsiderate or aggressive behaviour by cyclists because I've seen it too, but on the other side I've certainly encountered inconsiderate or obstructive behaviour by pedestrians as well -- usually accidental (didn't hear you), sometimes their own fault (deaf with headphones), and occasionally just deliberately bloody-minded and obstructive -- and I suspect boaters are the usual culprits here, since many seem to have an inbuilt hatred of cyclists, including some posters on CWDF.

 

In fact isn't that the real problem, people being tribal and divisive and assuming they're always in the right and the other guy -- in another "tribe" like cyclists -- is always in the wrong, ignoring the fact that there are people who behave like selfish gits in all tribes? 🙂

 

Such division certainly seems to be encouraged by the right-wing press and TV and online channels, and some of our government (e.g. Cruella), and some posters on CWDF... 😞

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[Lady M]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

You consider wrongly. CART rules say that both pedestrians and cyclists have equal rights to use the towpath, and should behave considerately towards each other.

 

Aggressive cyclists should take this advice, there's no excuse for bad behaviour. As should deaf-to-the-world pedestrians walking down the middle of a wide towpath with their nose in a phone or headphones on, unable to hear a polite "ting" from a cyclist... 😉

CRT Towpath Code, point 2, states that Pedestrians have priority on our towpaths so cyclists need to be ready to slow down. If you're in a hurry, consider using an alternative route for your journey. 

[pete.i]

According to this CRT website........https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/cycling/cycling-faqs .         pedestrians do have priority which in my book means that pedestrians on the towpath are the most important users and cyclists must slow down for them. That doesn't mean that pedestrians have right of way as the vast majority of towpaths are not public rights of way. Bottom line is that there are some totally ignorant cyclists on the towpaths as there totally ignorant pedestrians, joggers etc. I cannot see CRT doing anything about bad cyclists, or anyone else bad on the towpaths, apart from flagging the rules as they have done on the website that I linked.......   This link is from the CRT website "Stay Kind Slow Down."      https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/donate/our-campaigns/stay-kind-slow-down/faqs

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Lady C said:

CRT Towpath Code, point 2, states that Pedestrians have priority on our towpaths so cyclists need to be ready to slow down. If you're in a hurry, consider using an alternative route for your journey. 

That's true, and obvious -- and it also says that all towpath users should have consideration for each other, and that seems to be what is lacking in many cases -- keeping an eye open to what is going on around you.

 

I've nearly been hit by stupid cyclists when walking along the towpath, and nearly collided with them like in the video above. I've also almost ended up in the cut in the hedge when cycling when -- in spite of having rung and slowed down -- a completely unaware pedestrian has stepped in front of me with no warning, or walked onto the towpath from a footpath without looking. If they walked out in front of a car without looking or warning and the car ran into them, would it be the car driver's fault?

 

Idiotic cyclists are to be condemned, but damning all cyclists as idiots -- including the considerate ones -- makes no more sense than damning all CCers because of the CMers who abuse the system, or all wideboats becuase of the selfish ones who moor and travel where the canal isn't suitable. Blame the guilty people -- the selfish ones who actually do the wrong, and screw it up for the rest -- not everyone... 😉

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

What is a towpath? Is it a road or a footpath? 

 

Cycling and other 2 wheel vehicles should be illegal on towpaths. 

Chucking spears at the buggers is too kind. 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

What is a towpath? Is it a road or a footpath? 

 

Cycling and other 2 wheel vehicles should be illegal on towpaths. 

It's neither, it's a towpath -- AFAIK both pedestrians and cyclists use it by permission from CART. You used to need a license to cycle on it, I remember buying one from Little Venice in the early 80s, but that requirement was dropped long ago.

 

Some cyclists (not me!) would say that towpaths are an excellent way for cyclists to get healthy exercise and to get safely (no cars!) from A to B, and so pedestrians should be banned from them 😉

 

Why is there always this persistent need to ban "what I don't do" and refuse to see that there may be another side to the debate? 😞

Edited April 17, 2023 by IanD

[blackrose]

The worst one that happened to me was around Croxley on the GU. I was cycling along when I approached a dog walker with a small dog on a lead, but the woman had no control of it.

 

I slowly cycled past on the wide grassy bit letting them have the towpath when suddenly the dog decided to shoot out right in front of my front wheel. It was a fairly new bike with sharpish brakes which I applied instantly. 

 

I of course flew over the handlebars and had a soft landing on the grass to be greeted by a small dog licking my face. 🤣