Harecastle jobsworths.

[MtB]

Isn't Netherton so large it doesn't really feel like a tunnel? More like an underground cavern once you've done Gosty Hill and Harecastle...?

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I usually see it written/spelled "Gosty". Is Gorsty also considered correct? 

 

 

Dunno, I've seen is spelled both ways. When I walk from the basin up to the shops at Blackheath (up the chuffin big hill) I pass this sign...

 

....which allowing for Google having divided it, seems to read 'Gorsty' Hill Road, and that font of all wisdom, Google Maps, also calls it Gorsty Hill Road. We just know it as a chuffin' big hill and b'tard of a tunnel

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Was it one of these?

Nah, neither of them.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

Isn't Netherton so large it doesn't really feel like a tunnel? More like an underground cavern once you've done Gosty Hill and Harecastle...?

 

 

Yup. Most amazing trip I had was in midwinter around about sunset, when the setting sun was shining almost directly into the Bumble-hole portal. It lit up about 500 metres of the tunnel. Only ever seen that the once and it's kind of bizarre since the canal runs South West to North East.

[Rob-M]

Last time I went through Netherton it was just before bonfire night and the kids had let so many fireworks off in the tunnel it was a dense fog and I couldn't see anything.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Last time I went through Netherton it was just before bonfire night and the kids had let so many fireworks off in the tunnel it was a dense fog and I couldn't see anything.

 

 

Are you sure it wasn't just LadyG smoking that pipe of hers again?

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

5 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Last time I went through Netherton it was just before bonfire night and the kids had let so many fireworks off in the tunnel it was a dense fog and I couldn't see anything.

Much like Harecastle when they turn on the fans then.

[alan_fincher]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I usually see it written/spelled "Gosty". Is Gorsty also considered correct? 

 

 

In addition to those there are pictures showing a sign above the tunnel mouth which says "Costy", (I've yet to see "Corsty" though.)

[dave moore]

 As a local, I think that Gosty is the dialect pronunciation of Gorsty. Gorsty Hill Road which runs from Blackheath towards Coombeswood and Hawne Basin, is spelt with the R.

[Mike Todd]

Both CaRT online map and Waterway Routes give the name as Gosty whilst all the old OS Maps on NLS give Gorsty. It looks as if the current OS maps use neither for an area that was previously marked as Gorsty Hill.

 

It was only with the advent of the obsessions with Grammar School education (and an alleged correct spelling, punctuation etc) that names became much other than phonetic and variable. It is often the source of interest in local history and culture.

[Pluto]

This description, translated from the German, is of a visit to the caves at Castleton, Derbyshire, which starts with a short underground boat trip. They seem to have been a little more adventurous than we are allowed to be today.

Karl Philip Moritz 1782, Castleton.pdf

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Both CaRT online map and Waterway Routes give the name as Gosty whilst all the old OS Maps on NLS give Gorsty. It looks as if the current OS maps use neither for an area that was previously marked as Gorsty Hill.

 

I have also seen it referred to as Ghosty Hill, but then perhaps only by those who think the tunnel may be haunted.

 

[LadyG]

On 14/04/2023 at 21:00, MtB said:

 

 

Are you sure it wasn't just LadyG smoking that pipe of hers again?

 

 

Im still marooned on the C&H but not for long!

[Puffling]

Since a few already raised the spelling of tunnel names, I've seen both Wast Hill and Wast Hills. Both seem to appear in guides and sign boards. How many hills are there?

[Stroudwater1]

One. It was I believe called  Wasthulle on.maps then much more recently West Hill.
Unfortunately the fairly recent Birmingham City football training ground is called Wast Hills, and a lane has been termed Wast Hills lane too.   At some point Nicholson terms it Wast Hills tunnel. Earlier versions term it Kings Norton Tunnel which is I believe an alternative name. 

The Tunnel CRT and old blue and yellow BWB signs refer to it correctly as Wast Hill tunnel. 

[Awayonmyboat]

On 11/04/2023 at 12:06, Captain Pegg said:

For all the talk of Gosty Hill and Droitwich being tight what boats don't fit through them?

 

I think at least at Froghall it is a genuine consideration.

As a local to Droitwich I can assure you there are plenty of boats that don't fit. I suggest you do not plan and go through if you have any substantial (eg tv antenna, roof boxes) items fixed on your roof. My boat with standard triangular solar panel brackets will just go through most times - but on occasion I have had to send someone forward to the next lock to drop the pound slightly. One also needs to know the culvert roof dips a few centimetres towards the middle so make sure you have a little clearance as you enter. I'll also add the height restriction boards there are reasonably accurate. If they say you don't fit then you probably don't!

[Captain Pegg]

42 minutes ago, Awayonmyboat said:

As a local to Droitwich I can assure you there are plenty of boats that don't fit. I suggest you do not plan and go through if you have any substantial (eg tv antenna, roof boxes) items fixed on your roof. My boat with standard triangular solar panel brackets will just go through most times - but on occasion I have had to send someone forward to the next lock to drop the pound slightly. One also needs to know the culvert roof dips a few centimetres towards the middle so make sure you have a little clearance as you enter. I'll also add the height restriction boards there are reasonably accurate. If they say you don't fit then you probably don't!

 

You can't beat a bit of local knowledge.

 

However, it's obvious that if you attach additional stuff to your roof that there are places your boat is then likely to struggle. I'm genuinely querying whether there is a narrowboat with normal as-built dimensions that cannot sensibly be made to fit through Droitwich (and Gosty Hill) tunnels at normal water level. At Froghall there most definitely is, and obviously the majority will not fit through Dudley.

 

Bear in mind that the local hire bases have no specific instructions for Droitwich - but those close to the Caldon prohibit attempts at Froghall - and that craft of all size and shape make it to Droitwich including a range of historic craft for the reopening and since. They did not all come via the Severn and I have transitted the tunnel in an unloaded ex-GUCCCo boat without the need to lower the cratch. There is very little genuine boat superstructure that exceeds that sort of height.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Captain Pegg]

5 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

One. It was I believe called  Wasthulle on.maps then much more recently West Hill.
Unfortunately the fairly recent Birmingham City football training ground is called Wast Hills, and a lane has been termed Wast Hills lane too.   At some point Nicholson terms it Wast Hills tunnel. Earlier versions term it Kings Norton Tunnel which is I believe an alternative name. 

The Tunnel CRT and old blue and yellow BWB signs refer to it correctly as Wast Hill tunnel. 

 

I don't think we can credit the Blues with this, they've never achieved much anyway.

 

The term Wast Hills was clearly in use by the turn of the century (19th to 20th that is). On no map I have seen is West Hill (often Westhill) shown as being a summit. The tunnel cuts beneath a ridge of hills of which the highest point is High Hill to the west of the tunnel, the area marked West Hill being to the east.

 

Early OS maps show the name as Westhill Tunnel but whether this was reflected in canal company documents I know not. The term Wast Hills to describe a ridge of hills would be in keeping with the names Lickey Hills and Clent Hills for nearby and more prominent ridges.

 

I contend that a progression from Westhill to West Hill to Wast Hill to Wast Hills is simply language doing it's natural thing.

[David Mack]

49 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

On no map I have seen is West Hill (often Westhill) shown as being a summit.

1945 OS 6 inch map has a Wast Hill.

[Captain Pegg]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

1945 OS 6 inch map has a Wast Hill.

 

And that's in the same area as what is called West Hill on earlier maps. The initial claim was that there is only one hill and it's called Wast Hill when I suspect if you look to the east of what you've copied you'll find the summit of High Hill that appears to be the highest local point. Hence the use of the overall generic term Wast Hills for the area, a derivation of West Hill. I don't know this but it's what the evidence suggests.

[David Mack]

Looking east on the same map, the high point appears to be at Forhill, near the Peacock pub (BH) where there is a 659 ft spot height and a 658.7 ft bench mark.  The dotted line is labelled further along as the boundary between the Trent and Severn catchments, so is most likely the highest point around here.

 

I note also that south of the tunnel the canal is labelled 'Grand Union Canal', so we can't believe everything shown on an OS map!

[Captain Pegg]

 

High Hill at 683' shown above. There's no spot height for West Hill but you can see the ridge between the 600' contour lines (and the now opened out Cofton tunnel of the Birmingham & Gloucester railway running through it). So I guess historically it may have all been called West Hill - as @Stroudwater1 said and hence the tunnel name - since in appearance it's one big lump rather than distinct hills and it would fit with the name morphing into Wast Hills.

 

ETA - found a spot height for West Hill on a different map as 681ft. The tunnel also passes beneath Westhill farm and Westhill cottages on Victorian era OS maps but these become Wast Hills Farm and Wast Hills Cottages by no later than the early 20th century.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[sigsegv]

Hate to bring a thread back on topic but there we go. Today, we did the Harecastle tunnel. Prior to entering, the bloke manning the tunnel (and talking us through the safety stuff, etc) handed me an airhorn and asked if I could pass it to the bloke on the other side. Maybe a diplomatic way of ensuring people have an airhorn with them. About 150m into the tunnel (from the south entrance), my engine sputtered... struggled... I tried then to kill the engine myself but that didn't work. After about a minute, it finally cut out. Being without an engine in a closed-off tunnel wasn't particularly fun. I sounded my horn as per instructions (one long blast every 30 seconds) a few times. After that, I opted to use the provided airhorn pointing backwards towards the (obviously much closer) entrance. After the second blast, the fans wound down and the doors opened. Since we were so close to the entrance, with the fans off we could just about communicate via shouting. I was fortunate and was able to get the engine started again, backed out and could inspect the engine. After a chat with the tunnelkeepers, they informed me they didn't hear my boat's horn at all. Not surprising since it's facing the opposite direction to them, and those fans really aren't quiet. They heard the first blast of the airhorn, waited, then when they heard the second blast realised we were asking for help. Everyone was really nice, professional and reassuring.

 

After escaping the tunnel, checking the engine over, running it under load for a while and being (reasonably) confident it wasn't just going to cut out again, we went for a second attempt and got through just fine. Still not sure what caused the engine to cut out, but based on my Victron's monitoring of the batt voltages, I suspect I left the ignition key in the off position (life lesson there, don't just let go of the key after the engine's started since it'd sometimes spring back to 'off' rather than 'on'... I should have known better and that's my f*ck-up). That would explain why I couldn't shut the engine off when I tried in the tunnel, but doesn't explain to me why it would cut out. Probably caused considerable damage to the alternator, but hey ho. Mistakes were made. Something to get checked out at the next available opportunity.

 

Anyway, having the portable airhorn on me certainly made our recovery and subsequent passage happen a lot quicker, and for a few quid they definitely seem like a worthwhile item to have on board for tunnel crossings.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, sigsegv said:

. Probably caused considerable damage to the alternator, but hey ho.  

Shouldn't

[Pie Eater]

We carried our own air horn but fortunately never had to use it. We did break down in Harecastle Tunnel once but that was on a hire boat. Luckily we were not too far inside the tunnel.

 

We had run out of diesel and the hire company wanted to know if we had been to Timbuktu with the boat. They did not admit that they had not filled up after the previous hirers.

 

We managed to get to David Pipers? Yard and get a couple of jerry cans of diesel but had to use a traffic cone as a funnel.