Blown gasket and 1 mile and a flight from a marina

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The OP didn't originally post for advice or assistance regarding the engine. That may explain why they don't particularly want to engage in that part of the discussion.

 

 

My reading of it was he peripherally and rather inaccurately gave a few symptoms of the fault not realising they don't fit the diagnosis of head gasket failure, and this board loves nothing more than to jump on a set of symptoms, pick them apart and come up with a diagnosis that fits all the facts! 

 

As it turns out he wants to get the boat put on the hard standing and have the engine fault fixed there and that is his choice, whatever any of us here thinks of it. I notice no-one has offered him a tow yet, apart from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quattrodave]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

The OP didn't originally post for advice or assistance regarding the engine. That may explain why they don't particularly want to engage in that part of the discussion.

 

Aye, that may be, but as with most threads on here, starts off as one thing but very quickly turns into something completely different 😁

[Victor Vectis]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

My reading of it was he peripherally and rather inaccurately gave a few symptoms of the fault not realising they don't fit the diagnosis of head gasket failure, and this board loves nothing more than to jump on a set of symptoms, pick them apart and come up with a diagnosis that fits all the facts! 

 

As it turns out he wants to get the boat put on the hard standing and have the engine fault fixed there and that is his choice, whatever any of us here thinks of it. I notice no-one has offered him a tow yet, apart from you.

We're off to Lapworth in about an hour but if he is where I think he is 'RW' will be 18 locks away.

[Tracy D'arth]

I'll sit this one out for a while, it could develop nicely.

I have never spent more than 15minutes trying to start an engine before diagnosing the fault.

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

The OP didn't originally post for advice or assistance regarding the engine. That may explain why they don't particularly want to engage in that part of the discussion.

 

This is true until he posted the symptoms and diagnosis. To be blunt, if he is/was a Chartered Engineer he can probably afford to get ripped off, if that is his desire, but I have no wish to see that happen. I will now drop out and keep an eye on the topic, however I did note that despite apparently having the engine stopped by water in the fuel, he said nothing about draining the bottom of the tanks or finding how it got in. After the last few days, the tank may have got more water in it.

[Quattrodave]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

To be blunt, if he is/was a Chartered Engineer

 

One of my relatives is a Civil Engineer (a little different, I know), he's an idiot, I wouldn't trust him with a screwdriver!

Edit: just so we're clear, I'm not trying to say the OP is an idiot, I was just making the point that no matter how well qualified you are you can never know everything or be good at everything.

 

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

despite apparently having the engine stopped by water in the fuel, he said nothing about draining the bottom of the tanks or finding how it got in. After the last few days, the tank may have got more water in it.

 

Water? I thought it was air in the fuel???

OK, just gone back and re-read the thread, not sure how I missed the water in the fuel... Doh!

 

As a test you can always run the engine from a gerry can with fresh fuel...

Edited April 2, 2023 by Quattrodave

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

This is true until he posted the symptoms and diagnosis. To be blunt, if he is/was a Chartered Engineer he can probably afford to get ripped off, if that is his desire, but I have no wish to see that happen. I will now drop out and keep an eye on the topic, however I did note that despite apparently having the engine stopped by water in the fuel, he said nothing about draining the bottom of the tanks or finding how it got in. After the last few days, the tank may have got more water in it.

 

There is in my experience a world of difference between engineers and technicians. The skill sets of each are completely different with very little overlap. I'm fortunate to have have had a foot in both camps as my Dad was a Chartered Engineer and I followed in his footsteps and worked with lots of Chartered Engineers in the defence industry before truly realising I didn't like working in offices (where most design work takes place). So I packed it in and switched to mending boats with (ex) poster here "Cereal Tiller" and never looked back. But the point is, in my own personal experience of working with CEs is that generally, they have very little in the way of practical skills. Yes one can design a ship's radar and another a suspension bridge but both are clueless about fixing the car when it breaks down. I was always struck by how few would roll their sleeves up and change an obviously busted starter motor for example. 

 

Technicians on the other hand, in my experience often have little grasp of the engineering principles underlying of exactly HOW things work. This shows up especially in my own field nowadays. There are very few boiler technicians who understand how flame rectification actually works for example, despite it being used on virtually every gas boiler currently in production. And even fewer understand the technical meaning of terms like stress and strain or what Youngs modulus might be. Bothe these being really basic stuff for an engineer.

 

So in summary I fear the OP being a CE might not quite as well positioned to supervise the diagnosis and fixing of his busted engine as he thinks he is, from the things he's written. But we shall see...

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

As a test you can always run the engine from a gerry can with fresh fuel...

 

Agreed, providing nothing between the jerrycan and injection pump is not clogged with water, bug, or dirt, and that includes the strainer just inside the injector pump fuel inlet. For clarity, there is much to check before one should consider looking at that, and there is nothing to show those things have been looked at.

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

There is in my experience a world of difference between engineers and technicians. The skill sets of each are completely different with very little overlap. I'm fortunate to have have had a foot in both camps as my Dad was a Chartered Engineer and I followed in his footsteps and worked with lots of Chartered Engineers in the defence industry before truly realising I didn't like working in offices (where most design work takes place). So I packed it in and switched to mending boats with (ex) poster here "Cereal Tiller" and never looked back. But the point is, in my own personal experience of working with CEs is that generally, they have very little in the way of practical skills. Yes one can design a ship's radar and another a suspension bridge but both are clueless about fixing the car when it breaks down. I was always struck by how few would roll their sleeves up and change an obviously busted starter motor for example. 

 

Technicians on the other hand, in my experience often have little grasp of the engineering principles underlying of exactly HOW things work. This shows up especially in my own field nowadays. There are very few boiler technicians who understand how flame rectification actually works for example, despite it being used on virtually every gas boiler currently in production. And even fewer understand the technical meaning of terms like stress and strain or what Youngs modulus might be. Bothe these being really basic stuff for an engineer.

 

So in summary I fear the OP being a CE might not quite as well positioned to supervise the diagnosis and fixing of his busted engine as he thinks he is, from the things he's written. But we shall see...

 

Was it Yes Minister that had the saying "you could say that, but I couldn't possibly". If I had put my thoughts into words, I would have been far more blunt.

 

I must say we covered such things a stress, strain, elastic limits etc in the C&C Technicians course. NVQs seem to have dropped a lot of that, even at level 3, so it is hardly surprising that what I consider vital basic theory to facilitate diagnosis seems to be lacking today.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Was it Yes Minister that had the saying "you could say that, but I couldn't possibly". If I had put my thoughts into words, I would have been far more blunt.

 

I must say we covered such things a stress, strain, elastic limits etc in the C&C Technicians course. NVQs seem to have dropped a lot of that, even at level 3, so it is hardly surprising that what I consider vital basic theory to facilitate diagnosis seems to be lacking today.

 

Sad to say but I'd say most in my own trade barely even grasp the most basic of concepts such as voltage and current, or even how a venturi works. Very sad as the customers expect better than this and often have a misplaced confidence in the knowledge and abilities of the gas bod working on their system. I have an uneasy feeling the OP has a similar misplaced confidence in the mechanic who diagnosed head gasket failure.

 

 

 

 

[Quattrodave]

40 minutes ago, MtB said:

I have an uneasy feeling the OP has a similar misplaced confidence in the mechanic who diagnosed head gasket failure.

 

A fair point! What's the expression, Bullshit baffles brains...

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

 

A fair point! What's the expression, Bullshit baffles brains...

 

True that is often said, but sadly mostly by people in the sales profession who don't understand the technical stuff!

 

 

So while it may often be said, I don't think it is true.

 

 

[PaulD]

I am a chartered engineer with 50 years experience in mines, oil refineries and power stations. All I know about boat engines and 12v electrics is down to Tony Brooks and his excellent course that I attended when I started boating. Please keep posting Tony - we need you.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, PaulD said:

I am a chartered engineer with 50 years experience in mines, oil refineries and power stations. All I know about boat engines and 12v electrics is down to Tony Brooks and his excellent course that I attended when I started boating. Please keep posting Tony - we need you.

Thanks, very happy to have been of help, regrettably the passage of time must stop my posting. I think that your posts over the years and the OP's illustrates what Mike and myself feel about the OP. I had no idea that you are a chartered engineer and it really does not matter unless one thinks it equips you to deal with all and any aspect of engineering. I just hope that I know when I am straying into areas I am less qualified and experienced in.

[David Mack]

As an engineering graduate and Chartered Civil Engineer, I noted that there were some on my university course who had the academic qualifications, but wouldn't know which end of the nail to hit with the hammer!

[howardang]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

As an engineering graduate and Chartered Civil Engineer, I noted that there were some on my university course who had the academic qualifications, but wouldn't know which end of the nail to hit with the hammer!

As a non-engineer I have always thought that the best tool for hitting a nail is a shifting spanner. Am I wrong??

 

Howard

 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

As an engineering graduate and Chartered Civil Engineer, I noted that there were some on my university course who had the academic qualifications, but wouldn't know which end of the nail to hit with the hammer!

 

Or which end of a chisel goes in the screw head slot.

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

Or which end of a chisel goes in the screw head slot.

 

Doesn't matter as long as it's somebody else's chisel!

 

Using a good chisel to open a paint tin should be a hanging offence too ...

[LadyG]

55 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Or which end of a chisel goes in the screw head slot.

 

 

Pre Posidrive we used an Irish Screwdriver for all things proving difficult to unscrew, the only problem being that it's often a once only fix.

Don't forget that I was top in class in engineering (it was a very small class)  I learned the description of the plough by rote, so that was twenty five marks out of the hundred straight off. My description of a modern milking pipeline was illustrated in full colour, with all named parts identified. There was a four teat bovine in the diagram, which should have earned bonus points as it was additional to the lecturer's illustration. ✧⁠◝⁠(⁠⁰⁠▿⁠⁰⁠)⁠◜⁠✧

Edited April 2, 2023 by LadyG

[john.k]

Seems like a large water trap and cleanable strainer might be of some benefit..........maybe even a ONE LITRE one.

[Mike Todd]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 

There is in my experience a world of difference between engineers and technicians. The skill sets of each are completely different with very little overlap. I'm fortunate to have have had a foot in both camps as my Dad was a Chartered Engineer and I followed in his footsteps and worked with lots of Chartered Engineers in the defence industry before truly realising I didn't like working in offices (where most design work takes place). So I packed it in and switched to mending boats with (ex) poster here "Cereal Tiller" and never looked back. But the point is, in my own personal experience of working with CEs is that generally, they have very little in the way of practical skills. Yes one can design a ship's radar and another a suspension bridge but both are clueless about fixing the car when it breaks down. I was always struck by how few would roll their sleeves up and change an obviously busted starter motor for example. 

 

Technicians on the other hand, in my experience often have little grasp of the engineering principles underlying of exactly HOW things work. This shows up especially in my own field nowadays. There are very few boiler technicians who understand how flame rectification actually works for example, despite it being used on virtually every gas boiler currently in production. And even fewer understand the technical meaning of terms like stress and strain or what Youngs modulus might be. Bothe these being really basic stuff for an engineer.

 

So in summary I fear the OP being a CE might not quite as well positioned to supervise the diagnosis and fixing of his busted engine as he thinks he is, from the things he's written. But we shall see...

And some dont even know there is a difference between stress and strain. (Ask which comes first! )

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

True that is often said, but sadly mostly by people in the sales profession who don't understand the technical stuff!

 

 

So while it may often be said, I don't think it is true.

 

 

Especially when it comes to understanding the difference between a prototype and a production model.

[JollyWonker]

Thanks Captain - I didn’t intend to be blunt and I do appreciate the advice. Learning credentials or questioning authority on gaskets wasn’t on my mind but suffice to say I was there when the work was undertaken and I’m confident the fault is as reported. We’re going up to stay on her on Tuesday with a truck load of beer to pray to the boating gods for a generous passer! Thanks again guys 

[ditchcrawler]

37 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

Thanks Captain - I didn’t intend to be blunt and I do appreciate the advice. Learning credentials or questioning authority on gaskets wasn’t on my mind but suffice to say I was there when the work was undertaken and I’m confident the fault is as reported. We’re going up to stay on her on Tuesday with a truck load of beer to pray to the boating gods for a generous passer! Thanks again guys 

 

37 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

Thanks Captain - I didn’t intend to be blunt and I do appreciate the advice. Learning credentials or questioning authority on gaskets wasn’t on my mind but suffice to say I was there when the work was undertaken and I’m confident the fault is as reported. We’re going up to stay on her on Tuesday with a truck load of beer to pray to the boating gods for a generous passer! Thanks again guys 

Good luck with that, sorry we are not around

[Mike Todd]

We may be passing Mon or Tue. PM me if any help.

[JollyWonker]

Thanks so much @Mike Todd for the offer!! Its massively appreciated but with work, toddler and dogs I think the best we could possibly hope for is midday Wednesday. Thank you though, so much. Biggest thing is now we need to get her safe as she's more isolated than I would like, just because life has got in the way over the past few months. i'll be putting calls into mechanics first thing tomorrow with the hope of finding one who doesn't operate on canal-time and but if I can't get somebody out in a couple of days pulling her up will likely be the quicker option. To most of the posters here, thanks again and if you happen to pass there'll be more booze on board than you can shark a stick at

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

more booze on board than you can shark a stick at

 

 

 

 

Do you get many sharks near you ?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield