When did the BWB become BW ?

[Alan de Enfield]

Lying in bed listening to the rain beating down on the roof I started to muse back to the 'early days' of my boating.

 

I am sure that in the early days the registration numbers were issued (and prefixed) with "BWB", and it was only later that the 'Bridge' and "British Waterways" appeared.

 

Am I misremembering ? (Google is no help)

[David Mack]

The first BW registration plates had the old 'wave' logo

At about the same time the Bridgewater Canal Co issued similar plates but with a letter B in place of the logo.

 

Legally the organisation was always British Waterways Board, but the shorter form was used on boat liveries more or less from the start. I think they adopted the short form more generally later on - 80s/90s?

[MtB]

I suspect the British Waterways Board changed to just "British Waterways" in response to same marketing and advertising trendiness that made British Railways change their name to "British Rail". This was back in the 70s IIRC.

 

More recently I think Southern Electricity have changed their name to "Southern Electric". Even more grating than British Rail was. 

 

 

[GUMPY]

I seem to remember the  wave was introduced in about 1969 and went out about 1989/90 certainly my 1993 boat has the weedy bridge hole on its original plates.

[Tonka]

38 minutes ago, MtB said:

I suspect the British Waterways Board changed to just "British Waterways" in response to same marketing and advertising trendiness that made British Railways change their name to "British Rail". This was back in the 70s IIRC.

 

More recently I think Southern Electricity have changed their name to "Southern Electric". Even more grating than British Rail was. 

 

 

I thought Southern Electric are now OVO

I remember British Airways went through a similar phase when the took the word airways off of their planes

[Lady M]

Aren't OVO a new operator?  I think Southern Electric is part of SSE 

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Aren't OVO a new operator?  I think Southern Electric is part of SSE 

which got taken over by OVO

[RS2021]

The old 'Area Boards' were split between distribution (the wires) and supply (who sends you the bill). In the case of Southern Electric, distribution became part of SSEN (Scottish snd Southern Electricity Networks) and the supply business OVO.

Edited March 31, 2023 by RS2021

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Legally the organisation was always British Waterways Board, but the shorter form was used on boat liveries more or less from the start. I think they adopted the short form more generally later on - 80s/90s?

 

It's certainly not as simple as that...

Pictures from 1950s & 1960s show our boat SICKLE lettered just as "British Waterways", but I have pictures of her taken by myself and my brother circa 1972 showing the longer "British Waterways Board".

I can see a similar situation existed for RENTON and SEXTANS (aka SEXTANT).

 

However other maintenance boats from early 1970s show just BRITISH WATERWAYS, albeit on cabins so tatty it could have been over 10 years since last repaint.

 

Currently SICKLE is written as British Waterways, which we know to be correct for the 1957 livery she carries.

 

EDIT:

 

Actually, thinking about it some more, I think it maybe the case that the British Waterways Board came into existence by the Transport Act of 1962.  That would certainly be explained by boats being lettered "British Waterways Board after that date which had earlier than that date simply said "British Waterways"

Edited March 31, 2023 by alan_fincher

[Captain Pegg]

The terms "British Waterways" and "British Railways" pre-date the creation of the British Waterways Board and the British Railways Board. Until the Transport Act 1962 the relevant governing bodies were the Docks & Inland Waterways Executive and the Railway Executive of the British Transport Commission. The D&IWE logo includes the words "British Waterways Transport" in it's roundel design and as @alan_fincher says boats were decorated with "British Waterways" wording soon after nationalisation. The term "British Railways" was used for branding locomotives immediately upon nationalisation in 1948, even before the creation of a house logo or style.

 

For @MtB's benefit the term British Rail dates from the adoption of the double arrow symbol and the blue house livery in 1964/5. 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[magnetman]

1948. BWB..

Surely that is when it happened as this was when the canal companies were nationalised. 

[Ray T]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The terms "British Waterways" and "British Railways" pre-date the creation of the British Waterways Board and the British Railways Board. Until the Transport Act 1962 the relevant governing bodies were the Docks & Inland Waterways Executive and the Railway Executive of the British Transport Commission. The D&IWE logo includes the words "British Waterways Transport" in it's roundel design and as @alan_fincher says boats were decorated with "British Waterways" wording soon after nationalisation. The term "British Railways" was used for branding locomotives immediately upon nationalisation in 1948, even before the creation of a house logo or style.

 

For @MtB's benefit the term British Rail dates from the adoption of the double arrow symbol and the blue house livery in 1964/5. 

 

 

One time known as the "Arrow of indecision," Didn't know whether it was coming or going!

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Ray T

[magnetman]

When I first saw the BR logo as a small child I thought we were at the airport. 

[Alan de Enfield]

 

51 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The terms "British Waterways" and "British Railways" pre-date the creation of the British Waterways Board

 

 

The British Waterways Board did not exist until 1962 following the breakup of the British Transport Commission.

 

Are you saying that 'British Waterways' existed during the BTC era ?

 

Was their history ..........

 

British Waterways prior to 1962

British Waterways Board 1962 - ????

British Waterways ???? - 2012

C&RT 2012 - date

[Captain Pegg]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

The British Waterways Board did not exist until 1962 following the breakup of the British Transport Commission.

 

Are you saying that 'British Waterways' existed during the BTC era ?

 

Was their history ..........

 

British Waterways prior to 1962

British Waterways Board 1962 - ????

British Waterways ???? - 2012

C&RT 2012 - date

 

I think your confusing the trading name with it's parent legal organisation.

 

I don't think "British Waterways" has ever existed as a formal organisation, it's a trading/branding name. It was used by both the British Transport Commission (1948 - 1962) and the British Waterways Board (1962 - 2012). So it's as I said, the use of the name "British Waterways" pre-dates the BWB.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I think your confusing the trading name with it's parent legal organisation.

 

I don't think "British Waterways" has ever existed as a formal organisation, it's a trading/branding name. It was used by both the British Transport Commission (1948 - 1962) and the British Waterways Board (1962 - 2012). So it's as I said, the use of the name "British Waterways" pre-dates the BWB.

 

 

You are correct - I was confusing the 'legal' identity with the 'Marketing name'.

 

In fact the transfer documents 'gifting' the canal system to CRT in 2012 do actually use the correct (full) legal entity name ....................

 

RECITALS

 

(A) The British Waterways Board, a public corporation established under s1 of the Transport Act 1962 as amended and supplemented by the Transport Act 1968 and other legislation, presently has ownership of a wide range of assets associated with the waterways in England and Wales.

 

(B) Under the authority of the Public Bodies Act 2011, the British Waterways Board Transfer Scheme 2012 and the British Waterways Board (Transfer of Functions) Order 2012 transfer the functions and property relating to the waterways in England and Wales from the British Waterways Board into the ownership of CRT and its subsidiaries, which have been established for this purpose.

 

 

Has anyone seen a registration plate with a BWB prefix which I seem to remember having ?

[magnetman]

Never thought to look them up on ebay but this seller has quite a few red trade plates. I wonder if they are real or just repainted and how would it work if the CRT data checkers tried to find out what the boat was ??

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_ssn=agaplatesuk&store_name=agaplatesuk&_oac=1&_trksid=p2349624.m3561.l49496

 

[Captain Pegg]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Never thought to look them up on ebay but this seller has quite a few red trade plates. I wonder if they are real or just repainted and how would it work if the CRT data checkers tried to find out what the boat was ??

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_ssn=agaplatesuk&store_name=agaplatesuk&_oac=1&_trksid=p2349624.m3561.l49496

 

 

They look real to me. The 4xxxx number series appears to be correct.

 

Trade plates are issued to approved traders so it should flag up if the plate is genuine or not.

[koukouvagia]

Many of the former boatmen simply call them "Waterways".

[magnetman]

I wonder how the data checkers would deal with it on sight. I suppose "trade plate" would be noted but would this flag up or would it just be assumed to be alright if the boat was just passing through. 

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I wonder how the data checkers would deal with it on sight. I suppose "trade plate" would be noted but would this flag up or would it just be assumed to be alright if the boat was just passing through. 

 

I don't think "data checkers" deal with anything on site. They simply log the boat details.

 

ETA - so the system may fail to recognise the plate if it isn't genuine in which case the boat effectively isn't displaying a licence.

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

I suspect the British Waterways Board changed to just "British Waterways" in response to same marketing and advertising trendiness that made British Railways change their name to "British Rail". This was back in the 70s IIRC.

 

More recently I think Southern Electricity have changed their name to "Southern Electric". Even more grating than British Rail was. 

 

 

I use to work for the Electricity Light House in Gt yarmouth. thats what the folk called the shop where they went to pay their electricity (light) bill

[Tim Lewis]

From the first, September 1949, edition of the DIWE house magazine ‘Lock and Quay’

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Ray T said:

 

One time known as the "Arrow of indecision," Didn't know whether it was coming or going!

 

More on the double arrow, created by Gerry Barney of Design Research Unit in 1964 on behalf of the British Railways Board's Design Panel, which was responsibility of Richard Beeching. The logo has long outlived the body it was created for.

http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/background.htm

[Mike Todd]

6 hours ago, Ray T said:

 

One time known as the "Arrow of indecision," Didn't know whether it was coming or going!

 

Even better ws the interpretation of the old BT logo . . .