Buyer Beware

[Hudds Lad]

Salty, as my daughter would say.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Salty, as my daughter would say.

Not speaking youngster, what does it mean? 

[Bee]

The title of the thread is Buyer Beware and I think this illustrates the point well. OK, boats like most things are worth what the market will bear and the buyer will pay but the valuation or asking price is the best guess of the broker, just like house owners will usually rely on estate agents for a valuation boat owners now almost always rely on a broker. I think this has artificially raised the prices of boats and I should think that brokers - like estate agents - are usually within a few % of every other broker. Brokers have virtually set the prices to suit themselves, it might not be a deliberate cartel but I reckon brokers act in their own best interests so buyer beware and compare prices with private sellers.

[Hudds Lad]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Not speaking youngster, what does it mean? 

To be upset, miffed, peed off, both sour and bitter about something.

[rusty69]

11 minutes ago, Bee said:

The title of the thread is Buyer Beware and I think this illustrates the point well. OK, boats like most things are worth what the market will bear and the buyer will pay but the valuation or asking price is the best guess of the broker, just like house owners will usually rely on estate agents for a valuation boat owners now almost always rely on a broker. I think this has artificially raised the prices of boats and I should think that brokers - like estate agents - are usually within a few % of every other broker. Brokers have virtually set the prices to suit themselves, it might not be a deliberate cartel but I reckon brokers act in their own best interests so buyer beware and compare prices with private sellers.

Perhaps the perceived increased price over the private market is  for the 'professional' aspect the brokers bring, which perhaps inspires confidence in the buyer and is worth the premium, to them ?

Edited January 26, 2023 by rusty69

[Bee]

Could be. Probably for much the same reason that people buy cars from dealers (who get much of their stock from auctions) rather than buying privately or from the same auctions that are full of dealers.....

[Guest]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Perhaps the perceived increaseed price over the private market is precisely for the 'professional' aspect the brokers bring, which perhaps inspires confidence in the buyer and is worth the premium?

 

Worth remembering though that the premium you pay doesn't buy you any additional protection in a consumer protection sense.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

Worth remembering though that the premium you pay doesn't buy you any additional protection in a consumer protection sense.

True, but it may well make the buying process easier for the uninitiated, particularly if the broker can get the boat lifted, arrange a survey, perhaps offer a mooring etc. 

[matty40s]

36 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

True, but it may well make the buying process easier for the uninitiated, particularly if the broker can get the boat lifted, arrange a survey, perhaps offer a mooring etc. 

...and can easily transfer the deposit back or negotiate a reasonable compromise price if a survey shows up a multitude of sins, either known or unknown to the seller.

[GUMPY]

52 minutes ago, Bee said:

Could be. Probably for much the same reason that people buy cars from dealers (who get much of their stock from auctions) rather than buying privately or from the same auctions that are full of dealers.....

I will by a car from a trader mainly because, despite what they say, under trading standards law they are responsible for any defect that appears whether they knew about it or not and have to pay to get it rectified.  It's paid for itself twice now with two dealers, both were about £500 five and eight years ago 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Loddon

[Guest]

One advantage of selling through a broker is if a prospective buyer puts an offer in, pays their deposit but subsequently pulls out for a reason that isn't covered by their contract with the broker then the deposit is retained, to be shared between the broker and the vendor.

 

I cant recall the proportion of the split now but the greater proportion came to us added to the ammount our boat sold for when somebody did buy it.

 

Edit to add a caveat. This how it worked with Rugby Boats in 2015. A seller would need to check this still applies or if it applies with their chosen broker.

Edited January 26, 2023 by M_JG

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, M_JG said:

 

Worth remembering though that the premium you pay doesn't buy you any additional protection in a consumer protection sense.

But a lot of people who are new to boating don't realise that

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But a lot of people who are new to boating don't realise that

 

Indeed, which is sort of why I said it. 😉

[matty40s]

40 minutes ago, M_JG said:

One advantage of selling through a broker is if a prospective buyer puts an offer in, pays their deposit but subsequently pulls out for a reason that isn't covered by their contract with the broker then the deposit is retained, to be shared between the broker and the vendor.

 

I cant recall the proportion of the split now but the greater proportion came to us added to the ammount our boat sold for when somebody did buy it.

 

Edit to add a caveat. This how it worked with Rugby Boats in 2015. A seller would need to check this still applies or if it applies with their chosen broker.

As far as I know, it's a flat fee for marketing, time, broker intrinsic value and money outlay if there was(such as boat move to brokerage  paid by broker rather than seller), and then the rest goes to the seller who has been inconvenienced, and possibly had other potential buyers disallowed from buying as the boat was under offer for a period of time.

It's a minimum of 50% of the deposit, rising on the seller side with the boats value.

 

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If (and they dont buy boats) they owned it and sold it I'd expect that they would have to make way more than a 5% margin, as not only do they have to offer a full warranty on the boat but they are legally obliged to offer a full refund if the new owner changes their mind within (I think) 3 months

 

That sound highly unlikely to me.

 

Buy a boat from a broker who owns it and you get the right to return it for no reason within 3 months and get a full refund? Have I understood that right? Is that really true?

 

Under what regulation please? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by MtB
Numpty edit

[Guest]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

That sound highly unlikely to me.

 

Buy a boat from a broker and you get the right to return it for no reason within 3 months and get a full refund? Have I understood that right? Is that really true?

 

Under what regulation please? 

 

This sounds like a major reason NOT to use a broker to sell one's boat. 

 

 

 

Read Alan's post again.

 

I think the reference is to when the broker owns the boat. Not when they are brokering the sale on behalf of somebody else.

[magnetman]

Maybe the brother owns it or something. That would tidy it up a bit. Or the wife who is not part of the company. 

 

God I'm such a cynic. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

Read Alan's post again.

 

I think the reference is to when the broker owns the boat. Not when they are brokering the sale on behalf of somebody else.

 

Yes that is what I said.

 

Having read thru the legislation again it needs to be either not as described, unsatisfactory, or unfit for purpose NOT just "I've changed my mind"

 

• 0 - 30 days you can claim a full refund for goods that are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described. 
• 30 days - six months you must give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace it before you can claim a refund
• six months or more you must give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace it before you can claim a partial refund, and the burden of proof is on you to prove the product is faulty

If you discover the fault within the first six months of having the product, it is presumed to have been there since the time you took ownership of it - unless the retailer can prove otherwise.

The retailer can't make any deductions from your refund in the first six months following an unsuccessful attempt at repair or replacement.

The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles, where the retailer may make a reasonable reduction for the use you've already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days.

If a fault develops after the first six months, the burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time you took ownership of it. 

[roland elsdon]

Broker is agent of seller not buyer. Their job is to smooth out the sale.

Sounds like a good job was done.

Not the only thing going up in value people have been paying more for lumps of tin than their list price recently, they will catch colds in their desire for the latest .

[Ange]

14 hours ago, Kiwidad said:

Rugby Boats are brokers, so commission is paid as a percentage of the purchase price. They will be selling mine in a month, so here’s hoping prices hold!
 

 

Damn, we never did take you up on your offer to borrow the boat after we sold ours!

 

Are you getting another boat or is this the end of your boating?

 

 

[robtheplod]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

That sound highly unlikely to me.

 

Buy a boat from a broker who owns it and you get the right to return it for no reason within 3 months and get a full refund? Have I understood that right? Is that really true?

 

Under what regulation please? 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes that is true. As the Broker is the legal owner and they are selling as a business then a whole raft of consumer protection comes in. They are in effect the same as a garage selling you a car. The boat has to be accurately described and 'fit for purpose'. This occurred with us when we bought from Whilton...  ists probably the best protection you could hope for when buying a boat.... not great, but its something!

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Yes that is true. As the Broker is the legal owner and they are selling as a business then a whole raft of consumer protection comes in. They are in effect the same as a garage selling you a car. The boat has to be accurately described and 'fit for purpose'. This occurred with us when we bought from Whilton...  ists probably the best protection you could hope for when buying a boat.... not great, but its something!

 

Which of course is not what Alan said at all, and I queried. 

 

Alan has since altered his assertion that a boat can be returned and a refund obtained for no reason at all within three months. 

 

[robtheplod]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Which of course is not what Alan said at all, and I queried. 

 

Alan has since altered his assertion that a boat can be returned and a refund obtained for no reason at all within three months. 

 

that'll teach me for using my phone to read these...

[Captain Pegg]

It would be interesting to see the boat concerned, but none of the 22 sold boats listed on the website had an offer price of £74,950.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

It would be interesting to see the boat concerned, but none of the 22 sold boats listed on the website had an offer price of £74,950.

I mentioned the name of the boat I thought it was up thread

Edited January 27, 2023 by rusty69