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LadyG

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OK, so am increasingly concerned about absence of wildlife on the canals, a fabulous resource of food and habitat, but where are the birds and the bees? Who is monitoring them? Who is damaging them?

I've been in a semi rural environment, hung feeders on a tree, no birds. I've seen one pair of Mergansers, winter visitors.

(sawbills). I m not keen on mallard or Canada geese,  greedy beggars.

Is there anything we general boaters can do? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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I quite like a roast farmed duck, but shot wild duck are stringy.

I used to live in the country, and I had a source of shot game, those days have gone .

Wild salmon , btw, is sublime, rare. Best when poached as it enters the river from the sea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I quite like a roast farmed duck, but shot wild duck are stringy.

I used to live in the country, and I had a source of shot game, those days have gone .

Wild salmon , btw, is sublime, rare. Best when poached as it enters the river from the sea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is your answer 

ever one killing them 

close to home I guess you could say

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

OK, so am increasingly concerned about absence of wildlife on the canals, a fabulous resource of food and habitat, but where are the birds and the bees? Who is monitoring them? Who is damaging them?

I've been in a semi rural environment, hung feeders on a tree, no birds. I've seen one pair of Mergansers, winter visitors.

(sawbills). I m not keen on mallard or Canada geese,  greedy beggars.

Is there anything we general boaters can do? 

 

 

 

 

Kill every Canada Goose?  

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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I quite like a roast farmed duck, but shot wild duck are stringy.

I used to live in the country, and I had a source of shot game, those days have gone .

Wild salmon , btw, is sublime, rare. Best when poached as it enters the river from the sea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that poached the cooking technique, or caught illegally? Or both?

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7 hours ago, LadyG said:

OK, so am increasingly concerned about absence of wildlife on the canals, a fabulous resource of food and habitat, but where are the birds and the bees?

Birds seem to be being hit hard by avian flu also I find that at this time of the year food is still plentiful in the countryside so they are well spread out.

7 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

Who is monitoring them?

Birds are monitored by many many organisations e.g. the BTO, BU and various local bird clubs such as the Cumbria Bird Club.

I can't speak for other parts of the country but Cumbria Wildlife Trust have been running a scheme for a number of years to monitor insects particularly pollinators.

 

Lots of Apps e.g. iNatura;list iRecord and Bird track gather data and feed it in to such things as the local Biodiversity Centre

7 hours ago, LadyG said:

Who is damaging them?

Humans!   The government is still allowing some use of neonicotinoids.  Natural habitats are being destroyed, some people (such as one member of this forum) feel the world can survive if we get rid of animals.  Gardeners still use pesticides and prefer a garden which is "neat and tidy" leaving less room for wildlife hence the need for "No mow May".

7 hours ago, LadyG said:

I've been in a semi rural environment, hung feeders on a tree, no birds. I've seen one pair of Mergansers, winter visitors.

(sawbills). I m not keen on mallard or Canada geese,  greedy beggars.

Is there anything we general boaters can do? 

Support organisations doing what they can, for land based folk the BTO garden bird survey helps to show from year to year the ups and downs of each species, pressurise your MPs about environmental concerns etc etc

 

Everybody can and should do something.  As an example CBDC (our local biodiversity centre) points out that if common species e.g. mice aren't recorded it is very difficult to know when they are under threat and decreasing.  Obviously everybody hasn't an interest in wildlife but those who do can with very little effort contribute a lot.

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10 minutes ago, sueb said:

Too many people keep cats. I have a running battle with one which is intent on killing the birds around me.

 

Well our daughters cat is out of the 'killing fields' now.

 

His blood pressure has caused his retinas to detach and he is now blind as a bat.

 

 

Screenshot_20221203-205243_Facebook.jpg

Edited by M_JG
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1 hour ago, sueb said:

Too many people keep cats. I have a running battle with one which is intent on killing the birds around me.

Could you give a reference for that please?  As far as I know the British Trust for Ornithology who carry out all sorts of ornithology research have found no scientific evidence that the cats have reduced bird populations, so I would be interested to read the research on which you base that statement. 

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13 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Could you give a reference for that please?  As far as I know the British Trust for Ornithology who carry out all sorts of ornithology research have found no scientific evidence that the cats have reduced bird populations, so I would be interested to read the research on which you base that statement. 

only 27 million https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

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https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

17 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Could you give a reference for that please?  As far as I know the British Trust for Ornithology who carry out all sorts of ornithology research have found no scientific evidence that the cats have reduced bird populations, so I would be interested to read the research on which you base that statement. 

Which is precisely what that link says. There is no scientific evidence that cats are causing a decline in bird populations.

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11 minutes ago, pete.i said:

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

Which is precisely what that link says. There is no scientific evidence that cats are causing a decline in bird populations.

 

But, surely if cats have killed 27 million birds the population must have been reduced by 27 million from what it would have been had they not been killed.

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13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But, surely if cats have killed 27 million birds the population must have been reduced by 27 million from what it would have been had they not been killed.

That is assuming that a) cats like most predators don't choose the sick and weak which would have died from some other source  b) That they aren't taking birds which are in the wrong habitat and aren't doing as well as possible.

 

Cats, OK wild cats, were part of the UK natural fauna and not restricted to Scotland in times gone by, so domestic cats are probably just replacing natural predators.  Domestic cats have been part of human society since at least Egyptian times it would seem strange if suddenly in the last 50 years or so they had suddenly started to have an effect on populations which they didn't have for a couple of millennia.   Particularly when is past centuries they weren't as well fed and in many cases were expected to fend for themselves.

 

For me however the telling point is the fact there is no scientific evidence and believe me it is not for the lack of looking.  Many many people carry out scientific studies and population counts.   For example 40,000 of us were involved in data gathering for the 2007-2011 Population Atlas.

 

It is, to me at least, strange that people require proof for many things in life but grab hold of statements they agree with ignoring part of what is said, as Pete.i points out your statement is based on no evidence.

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Domestic cats also vary widely in the quantity and species of wildlife they take. Some seem to specialise in birds, others in mice and voles, but will kill other things when the opportunity comes up. Hunting success seems to depend on having been taught to hunt as a kitten by their mum. The instinct to stalk and pounce is built in to their little cat brains, but they need to learn how to do it successfully. Temperament varies too. Some cats want to be out all the time disembowling small squeeky things. Others are happy curled up in the warm. Quantities of kills by cats I've known over the years, our own and neighbours can vary from none ever, one every few weeks, or months, to three or four a day.

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22 hours ago, Jerra said:

Could you give a reference for that please?  As far as I know the British Trust for Ornithology who carry out all sorts of ornithology research have found no scientific evidence that the cats have reduced bird populations, so I would be interested to read the research on which you base that statement. 

Cats kill wildlife. Australia is banning them from going outside unless caged. There are too many cats in this country often kept by vegetarians and pacifists Why? Just because they look cute>

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10 minutes ago, sueb said:

Cats kill wildlife. Australia is banning them from going outside unless caged.

 

No they arent.

 

Please get your facts straight, do some proper research and then come back with the correct version.

 

This place is already full of so much misinforation these days. Plewse do not add to it.

 

Edited by M_JG
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22 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

No they arent.

 

Please get your facts straight, do some proper research and then come back with the correct version.

 

This place is already full of so much misinforation these days. Plewse do not add to it.

 

I googled Australia cats not allowed outside. Iceland are cracking down as well, according to google. Are you denying that cats kill wildlife or just being picky?

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29 minutes ago, sueb said:

I googled Australia cats not allowed outside. Iceland are cracking down as well, according to google. Are you denying that cats kill wildlife or just being picky?

 

So you cannot state how I was incorrect and come back asking me something that I havent even come close to suggesting.

 

Clue - Australia is a massive country and local areas can set their own bye laws much in the same way as councils can here.

 

Come back and try again when youve done proper research, like I said.

 

 

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1 hour ago, sueb said:

Cats kill wildlife.

That is clearly obvious.  

1 hour ago, sueb said:

Australia is banning them from going outside unless caged.

Australia is not the UK its natural fauna are all marsupials therefor cats are a totally alien species which has no natural niche in their ecology, similarly to the rabbit over there.  You are comparing apples with oranges.

1 hour ago, sueb said:

There are too many cats in this country often kept by vegetarians and pacifists Why? Just because they look cute>

Provide me with a peer reviewed or indeed any research which shows your assertion to be correct.  It appears to be base totally on opinion and emotion.

 

I am afraid, particularly where wildlife are concerned, I require researched proof, which is why I spend a good amount of my time helping in such research.

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Hi,

 

This thread got me thinking so I had a bit of a Google. The RSPB article - 

 

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

 

Which led to a BBC article - 

 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/pet-cats-have-up-to-10-times-larger-impact-on-wildlife-than-wild-predators/

 

And a couple of "papers" - 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

 

https://www.mammal.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Domestic-Cat-Predation-on-Wildlife.pdf

 

But even without all this, it is obvious if domestic cats kill wildlife they are going to have an impact on those widlife populations, it is just a question of degree of impact. The argument that it is OK for the cats to take the sick and weak means that natural preadators have to then catch the fit and healthy! or eat somthing else, or starve. It also means that in good years the wildlife has less of a chance to "catch up" after a bad year.

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My cat once bought home a duckling - not a mark on it. i popped it into the bath and called the RSPB (no reply) and RSPCA, who just ranted at me about against the law to take wild fowl from ... the wild...  I told them my cat didn't know that but i would make sure he's aware.....  he must be very bright as he's not done it again!

Edited by robtheplod
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2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

My cat once bought home a duckling - not a mark on it. i popped it into the bath and called the RSPB (no reply) and RSPCA, who just ranted at me about against the law to take wild fowl from ... the wild...  I told them my cat didn't know that but i would make sure he's aware.....  he must be very bright as he's not done it again!

What an excellent and restrained answer. I think that if I had rung them for help and and had found myself on the receiving end of such an ear-bashing, my response would have been briefer and more terse.

   Most people think of the RSPCA as one of the "good guys"; so, would they rather not be informed about a possibly defenceless creature in need of help? 

Edited by Athy
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