Newbie solo; experience needed?

[David Schweizer]

6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

FWIW I have always found longer boats to be easier to handle than shorter ones. I would suggest something in the 50 to 57 ft size is optimum.

 

Agreed. I learnt my boating on a full length Northwich Motor, and also spent a couple of years captaining a 70 ft Hancock and Lane trip boat. When I bought Helvetia, I was quite surprised how less easy a 52 ft boat was to handle.

[Richard10002]

7 hours ago, mickyh said:

 

Where was the diesel engine course, that's definitely something I consider?

 

I did it at Top Lock Training in Marple. I thought they had sold up, but there is a Web link... if not available,  search the RYA site:

 

https://www.toplocktraining.co.uk/

[Wanderer Vagabond]

9 hours ago, IanD said:

57' is a popular length, long enough to have enough space for what you want and short enough to go pretty much anywhere on the system (some canals in the North have locks where 57' is the official limit).

They might have an official limit, but we have taken our 60 footer on all of them (although we did need to take the bow and stern fenders off for a few locks). Offhand I think our tightest turnaround was in the Dewsbury Arm on the Calder and Hebble which was supposed to be 58' but they must have measured it with an elastic tape measure.

[PD1964]

49 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

They might have an official limit, but we have taken our 60 footer on all of them (although we did need to take the bow and stern fenders off for a few locks). Offhand I think our tightest turnaround was in the Dewsbury Arm on the Calder and Hebble which was supposed to be 58' but they must have measured it with an elastic tape measure.

 So just get a 57ft and don’t have the hassle of taking your fenders off and going corner to corner. 
 The OP wouldn’t miss 3ft being single handed. I have a 61.5ft and could easily live in a 57ft or 55ft, it’s all down to layout and the use of space.

Edited August 20, 2022 by PD1964

[IanD]

8 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

They might have an official limit, but we have taken our 60 footer on all of them (although we did need to take the bow and stern fenders off for a few locks). Offhand I think our tightest turnaround was in the Dewsbury Arm on the Calder and Hebble which was supposed to be 58' but they must have measured it with an elastic tape measure.

I know all that which is why my boat is 60' long... 😉

 

But then you do need to know what you're doing and take care (and get wet...) in locks like Salterhebble, some people have said "never again", and I didn't want to confuse a newcomer to the canals... 🙂

[LadyG]

As a singlehander with three years on board, I would say that it's not for everyone, and you won't really know without giving it a shot, so I'd probably advise a months hire in a winter month.

Personally I am a cc by nature, but I am not going to cruise on a cold wet windy day when I can be having a long lie followed by a short walk to build up an appetite.

With no deadlines, I just potter along, probably more frequently in summer than in winter.

It can be frustrating, at times due to random problems, stoppages and so on, but it's better than watching repeats of Antiques Roadshow.

Selling up is pretty drastic, so if you can work round that, it might be better. You could start by selling stuff, there is little storage for stuff, no loft and no garage storage. 

[rusty69]

14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

As a singlehander with three years on board, I would say that it's not for everyone, and you won't really know without giving it a shot, so I'd probably advise a months hire in a winter month.

Personally I am a cc by nature, but I am not going to cruise on a cold wet windy day when I can be having a long lie followed by a short walk to build up an appetite.

With no deadlines, I just potter along, probably more frequently in summer than in winter.

It can be frustrating, at times due to random problems, stoppages and so on, but it's better than watching repeats of Antiques Roadshow.

Selling up is pretty drastic, so if you can work round that, it might be better. You could start by selling stuff, there is little storage for stuff, no loft and no garage storage. 

The selling up bit, and the hiring bit, are coincidently exactly the kind of things I mentioned to you when you were buying. 

 

I can't remember now, but did you hire before buying? 

 

Did you keep one foot ashore? 

 

Asking for a friend of a friend. 

 

Seriously, if you did neither. Do you regret not doing so? 

 

If you did both, was that a good decision?

 

Might help the OP make a decision. 

 

 

[LadyG]

With respect to courses, I think it's a good idea to go on a helmsman's course . Please buy a good length of centreline type rope which you can practice coiling, knotting and throwing accurately. You probably need to know a round turn with two half hitches a tugman's hitch, a bowline, and possibly a clove hitch (to attach a stern line to dollies). 

It depends on your start point with engines, personally I would wait till I get a boat and find someone qualified to come, you do the servicing under supervision / tuition. RCR might be a good point of contact if you are not sure.

[LadyG]

18 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The selling up bit, and the hiring bit, are coincidently exactly the kind of things I mentioned to you when you were buying. 

 

I can't remember now, but did you hire before buying? 

 

Did you keep one foot ashore? 

 

Asking for a friend of a friend. 

 

Seriously, if you did neither. Do you regret not doing so? 

 

If you did both, was that a good decision?

 

Might help the OP make a decision. 

 

 

Unfortunately I was unable to take your advice, which was totally correct.

Due to my personal circumstances I had to jump straight from house to boat. I've not regretted it, and after three years I'd find living in a house rather strange.

I miss not having a proper bathroom.

Winter on the cut rather than in a Marina means managing a solid fuel stove and electricity. So more housework than in a one bed flat 

Edited August 21, 2022 by LadyG

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Unfortunately I was u able to take your advice, which was totally correct.

Due to my personal circumstances I had to jump straight from house to boat. I've not regretted it, and after three years I'd find living in a house rather strange.

I miss not having a proper bathroom.

I don't know if it was correct or not to he honest.

 

Glad you have no regrets though. 

[Rob-M]

Regarding boat length, I find the shorter the boat the more you have to concentrate on where you are heading.  Short boats seem to easily drift off course where as longer boats seem to be more forgiving to a lapse of concentration.  The advantage of a short boat though is fitting in a space when popular visitor moorings look full.

[LadyG]

50 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I don't know if it was correct or not to he honest.

 

Glad you have no regrets though. 

Amazing to look back, that was 2017.

[Steve Buxton]

16 hours ago, PD1964 said:

Yes not many canals that way, but as I say don’t worry about it, you can waste your money doing Helmsman courses, be shown how to do knots, how to do a lock, reverse and how to enter a tunnel, but nothing is that difficult if your fit and have common sense. I know more people that have not done a Helmsman course, than those that have, which are usually well to do middle class couples buying a brand new boat, then they’ll have their life jackets on and only communicate with hand held radios 5ft apart. Just do it and don’t read too much into it. If anything just go and hire a boat in October/November, normally a quiet time but very enjoyable.

This is just the pompous attitude that puts newbies off the Forum.

 

[PaulJ]

54 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Regarding boat length, I find the shorter the boat the more you have to concentrate on where you are heading.  Short boats seem to easily drift off course where as longer boats seem to be more forgiving to a lapse of concentration.  The advantage of a short boat though is fitting in a space when popular visitor moorings look full.

A very important point when solo boating.

Much harder to make a cuppa on the move on a short boat 😀

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Steve Buxton said:

This is just the pompous attitude that puts newbies off the Forum.

 

That's what I thought, but couldn't have put it as politely as you have..... so I refreined.

[Steve Buxton]

3 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Regarding boat length, I find the shorter the boat the more you have to concentrate on where you are heading.  Short boats seem to easily drift off course where as longer boats seem to be more forgiving to a lapse of concentration.  The advantage of a short boat though is fitting in a space when popular visitor moorings look full.

I can definitely agree with this. Our boat is a 23 foot narrow boat with an outboard engine fitted with a swan neck tiller. The slightest movement on the tiller has an effect and then needs correcting. We let our grandson have a go at steering on a wide stretch of the Trent and it was observed that we were zigzagging up the river :-). Shorter boat = less mooring fees and easier mooring but does come at the cost of space.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Regarding boat length, I find the shorter the boat the more you have to concentrate on where you are heading.  Short boats seem to easily drift off course where as longer boats seem to be more forgiving to a lapse of concentration.

Especially in reverse 😂😂

That’s when one needs the help of some like yourself on the other end. 
 

I don’t think I did too bad though. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 hours ago, Steve Buxton said:

This is just the pompous attitude that puts newbies off the Forum.

 

I thought it was amusing. 
Can’t see why it’d put anyone off. 
🤷‍♀️

Perhaps it just hit a nerve with you. 
 

[Steve Buxton]

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I thought it was amusing. 
Can’t see why it’d put anyone off. 
🤷‍♀️

Perhaps it just hit a nerve with you. 
 

I would like to think I have a good sense of humour but some of the comments on the forum go beyond that. I am a newbie who has just bought a boat when I reached retirement age.. My wife would have liked to have had one years ago, but both time and finances did not allow. We scraped together enough savings to buy a 23 foot narrowboat built in 1991. As we are based in a marina on the River Trent and have never used a boat of any kind before, we thought it sensible to get some training first. When we are on the river or in locks we always wear lifejackets because I have always been brought up safety first. As I am interested in radio, and have been all my life I decided to buy a handheld radio and get licensed and I can now talk to the lockies on the Trent. We have had two "adventures" in the boat so far where it would have been useful to call for assistance, and I am also wary of the very large pleasure craft that uses the same stretch of river. I don't think any of the above puts me into the category that PD1964 alluded to?  And anyway, are those people any less boaters than he is or any of the other newbies on the waterways.  Most forums have characters who think they are funny but in the cold light of day their comments turn out to be far from it.

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, Steve Buxton said:

This is just the pompous attitude that puts newbies off the Forum.

 

 

Once again the unofficial forum police strike. Actually the |ADVICE given has a good deal of truth in it. Every boat handles in different and subtle ways and the handling often alters from canal length to canal length so doing a course on 30 footers may well not equip you for one twice the size and the opposite applies. I do know of one training establishment that trained on a boat of about that size and on one of the deeper wide beam canals. They also practised spinning the boat in a large marina. I have no idea if they ever went near a winding hole but from timings I rather suspect not. As I said about the engineering type courses you need personal recommendation.

 

As for the second part that you seem to object to, again from observation, there seems to be a degree of both truth and humour in it. It is just the attitude of you and similar others that put experienced people off trying to help newbies for fear of being jump on by your type.

[Steve Buxton]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Once again the unofficial forum police strike. Actually the |ADVICE given has a good deal of truth in it. Every boat handles in different and subtle ways and the handling often alters from canal length to canal length so doing a course on 30 footers may well not equip you for one twice the size and the opposite applies. I do know of one training establishment that trained on a boat of about that size and on one of the deeper wide beam canals. They also practised spinning the boat in a large marina. I have no idea if they ever went near a winding hole but from timings I rather suspect not. As I said about the engineering type courses you need personal recommendation.

 

As for the second part that you seem to object to, again from observation, there seems to be a degree of both truth and humour in it. It is just the attitude of you and similar others that put experienced people off trying to help newbies for fear of being jump on by your type.

How do you know what type I am? From one comment which I thought (in my personal opinion) was pompous towards newbies?  I have been grateful for some of the advice from experienced boaters on the forum and have said so to them. The course I went on was in a 50 foot + boat, and covered locks, a tunnel, swingbridges and turning in winding holes. Over two days it gave us some badly needed confidence to put into practice on our boat. We still had to learn the basics of how our boat handled differently to the larger boat but the course was a weekend which we enjoyed thoroughly. I don't expect everyone to feel the need to take a course but I am sure there are plenty of boaters out there who should have done.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Steve Buxton said:

How do you know what type I am? From one comment which I thought (in my personal opinion) was pompous towards newbies?  I have been grateful for some of the advice from experienced boaters on the forum and have said so to them. The course I went on was in a 50 foot + boat, and covered locks, a tunnel, swingbridges and turning in winding holes. Over two days it gave us some badly needed confidence to put into practice on our boat. We still had to learn the basics of how our boat handled differently to the larger boat but the course was a weekend which we enjoyed thoroughly. I don't expect everyone to feel the need to take a course but I am sure there are plenty of boaters out there who should have done.

 

I think that you are one of those who like to get upset on other's behalf until I read the reason in your reply. I note that you are on the Trent and your course did a tunnel and swing bridges. That is fine, but did you rig flood lines and methods of stopping the boat riding over the bank if caught in a flood? Did you learn how to properly deploy the anchor? Did you learn how to ferry glide and use the combination of current and slack water to turn the boat? Was any tuition given on reading the water ahead of you how to use the current or lack of it to best effect. Did you practice man overboard drill and picking them up? All very valuable skills for river boaters. It seems to me that the course you did was far from ideal for your boating area and that is the sort f thing that was being pointed out. A SUITABLE course for those absolutely new to boating is probably a very good idea but one not dealing with the skills required is very likely to give a false sense of security.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

8 minutes ago, Steve Buxton said:

I would like to think I have a good sense of humour but some of the comments on the forum go beyond that. I am a newbie who has just bought a boat when I reached retirement age.. My wife would have liked to have had one years ago, but both time and finances did not allow. We scraped together enough savings to buy a 23 foot narrowboat built in 1991. As we are based in a marina on the River Trent and have never used a boat of any kind before, we thought it sensible to get some training first. When we are on the river or in locks we always wear lifejackets because I have always been brought up safety first. As I am interested in radio, and have been all my life I decided to buy a handheld radio and get licensed and I can now talk to the lockies on the Trent. We have had two "adventures" in the boat so far where it would have been useful to call for assistance, and I am also wary of the very large pleasure craft that uses the same stretch of river. I don't think any of the above puts me into the category that PD1964 alluded to?  And anyway, are those people any less boaters than he is or any of the other newbies on the waterways.  Most forums have characters who think they are funny but in the cold light of day their comments turn out to be far from it.

I reckon for you and the circumstances you describe you’ve gone about it the correct way to get confident. And I won’t knock you for that. 

But equally I wouldn’t frighten (my words not yours) someone into thinking the need for courses and radios are something needed to plod around the canals. 

Someone will soon say that a bow thruster is also needed. 
 

I think the OP seems savvy enough to weigh all this up themselves and make a decision without being put off. 

Just to add: I keep meaning to get myself a life jacket, I boat alone, (including through winter) I think it would be better to be safer than sorry. 

 

 

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Especially in reverse 😂😂

That’s when one needs the help of some like yourself on the other end. 
 

I don’t think I did too bad though. 

I don't make too bad a bow thruster but you did alright.

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Steve Buxton said:

This is just the pompous attitude that puts newbies off the Forum.

 

Not sure what to say because the wife and I both did a course with Tam Murrell in France and had a wonderful time. Diana steers with a wheel much better than I do.

I find that most times, not always, when I go on a boat with a professional skipper I learn something but that is only to be expected only having buggered about with boats for 60 years.