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London boaters fight for moorings


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1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

I'm not so sure given yours is only the second thread about this. The event was 10 days ago and has generated very little interest on here.

 

It is London so the vast majority of boaters just don't care.

It is of interest to read about it but thats as far as it goes.

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There will be knock on effects to the rest of us on CRT waters.

With even more 14 day moorings down to 7 day or 48hrs plus charges and booking.

 

But as Alan and Mtb say, there’s little or interest on here.

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9 minutes ago, Goliath said:

There will be knock on effects to the rest of us on CRT waters.

With even more 14 day moorings down to 7 day or 48hrs plus charges and booking.

 

I'm not sure there will be an effect on the rest of C&RTs waters - there may well be a similar effect where there is such crowding (call it demand if you wish) with so few facilities and such anti-rules feelings, but I doubt if 90% of the system will see any difference.

 

Charges are coming anyway, irrespective of the No Boats Move Anywhere club. C&RT needs to raise more money and one of the few legal ways it has of doing it is to :

1) Charge a much higher licence fee.

2) Charge for the facilities provided.

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9 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

It’s hard to feel sorry for folk who’ve signed up to CC and move in accordance with the laws/bylaws, then admit they’ve been doing the opposite for quite some time and are upset now the party is over.

 

 

Its a bit like 40+ years ago when the wife said "I promise to honour and obey till death us do part" - well that didn't last very long.

 

Once you've got what you want, just ignore what you signed up for, appears to be an increasingly modern thing to do.

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If all those liveaboard boaters in the NBTA article actually CC'd in accordance (and the spirit) of their license there wouldn't be any issue. I'd actually be in favour of more 48hr moorings in the London area, as it would mean normal CC'ers and leisure boaters would have half a chance of getting a mooring should they want to visit London. As it is most boaters view London as a no go area due to the current mooring situation.

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I love the placard which says "Freedom to travel...." err no probs there just keep travelling. I wonder if she would be interested in an idea I have for another protest. A march to C&RT offices protesting against having to buy a license, insurance and a BSC.
Freedom!!!

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I think the reaction of a proportion of boaters to Amelia and Tyrone's 'plight' is more like "What took CRT so long?" rather than sympathy and support. 

 

The boaters playing by the rules and taking an expensive mooring when they need to stay in one area are mightily hacked off with CMing piss takers, I suspect. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Those of us that actually do CC are even more hacked off at the CMers.

 

Any bright ideas to deal with the "CCer problem" will affect us as well as them.

 

This is puzzling me. In what way are you being affected?

 

Why not just CC somewhere else? 

 

 

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Just now, MtB said:

This is puzzling me. In what way are you being affected?

 

Why not just CC somewhere else? 

 

We do.

 

Any changes to what would "satisfy the board" would affect all of us though.

 

There have been a variety of initiatives in BW/CRT towers over the years ranging from increased licence fees for CCers to looking at "black box" GPS units.

 

Increased fees is reasonable to a point but the IWA(?) wanted it to be doubled or trebled only for CCers not for home moorers.  Daft idea, because a cheap mooring would be less than the licence fee increase.

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Any changes to what would "satisfy the board" would affect all of us though.

 

 

Like pulling teeth. 

 

What changes are being proposed and seriously considered to what will 'satisfy the board'? 

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I think they should make all towpath moorings 48hrs only with exceptions for stoppages etc - It seems to work on the Wey and Basingstoke and then give everybody free say 4 scratch cards each year allowing for further stays  of up to 14 days with additional  cards available at extra cost on a  scale. Of course this could all be done electronically as seems to be happening with parking.

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25 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We do.

 

Any changes to what would "satisfy the board" would affect all of us though.

 

There have been a variety of initiatives in BW/CRT towers over the years ranging from increased licence fees for CCers to looking at "black box" GPS units.

 

Increased fees is reasonable to a point but the IWA(?) wanted it to be doubled or trebled only for CCers not for home moorers.  Daft idea, because a cheap mooring would be less than the licence fee increase.

At which point getting a mooring would become like musical chairs with the end result being an increase in mooring fees to suit the increased demand.

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2 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

I think they should make all towpath moorings 48hrs only with exceptions for stoppages etc

 

 

They can't do this for "boats without a home mooring" without a change to primary legislation (the 1995 Act)

 

According to the late Nigel Moore CRT could do this for boats with a home mooring any time they wanted to, as there is no 14 day clause covering such boats.

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

They can't do this for "boats without a home mooring" without a change to primary legislation (the 1995 Act)

 

 

I don't think that Nigel was suggesting that CCers could 'overstay' on all of the 'time limited' moorings around the system.

 

C&RT have the powers to implement limited time moorings and / or mooring charges.

Maybe it would be difficult to justify on 'wild towpaths' but where there are actual moorings (rings, bollards, dredged, armco etc) I seem to remember Nigel saying thay can do pretty much what they want. 

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe it would be difficult to justify on 'wild towpaths' but where there are actual moorings (rings, bollards, dredged, armco etc) I seem to remember Nigel saying thay can do pretty much what they want. 

 

There are long lengths of wild towpath west of Bathampton on the K&A where nobody would reasonably want to moor, which are nevertheless marked as 48 hour moorings - presumably to discourage the continuous moorers.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I don't think that Nigel was suggesting that CCers could 'overstay' on all of the 'time limited' moorings around the system.

 

I remember he had the view that while it is good practice to allow shorter time limits in some places where it might be deemed suitable, such as honey pots, they were unenforceable because of the 14day rule. 
That shorter terms were/are only ever advisory. 
 

Which of course hasn’t stopped CRT introducing short term moorings and enforcing them. 

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30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I don't think that Nigel was suggesting that CCers could 'overstay' on all of the 'time limited' moorings around the system.

 

C&RT have the powers to implement limited time moorings and / or mooring charges.

Maybe it would be difficult to justify on 'wild towpaths' but where there are actual moorings (rings, bollards, dredged, armco etc) I seem to remember Nigel saying thay can do pretty much what they want. 

 

I agree, that's not what I am saying.

 

Nigel did comment that there is no legal basis for boats with a home mooring to stay for 14 days anywhere except on their registered mooring.  Anything other than overnight whilst in transit is purely permissive by CRT or BW before them.

 

Boats without a home mooring have the "14 days or longer as reasonable" clause in the Act.

 

He also observed as you say that mooring rings/bollards/VM jetties etc are clearly "providing a service" and therefore could be charged for.  As could water points, bins and elsan disposal points!

 

 

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Would it not be a good idea then to encourage home moorers (using strict enforcement) to move every 48hrs? 
For it’s surely the home moorers who clog the system come the good weather. 
 

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1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

@NigelMoore

He also observed as you say that mooring rings/bollards/VM jetties etc are clearly "providing a service" and therefore could be charged for.  As could water points, bins and elsan disposal points!

 

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

I liked Nigel. Had a couple of beers in the Magpie in Brentford with him just before he shuffled off. Very knowledgeable man. 

This is a really interesting point about the rings. CRT have recently started installing mooring rings in previously unmoorable areas with concrete edges and nowhere to hammer pins in. I suspect personally that hammering mooring pins in could technically be a byelaw infringement so the move from self mooring to provision of a mooring service may be rather interesting. 

 

I must admit I had not cottoned-on to this possibly being a precursor to taking money for moorings on towpath as a service. 

 

If that's what it is then it is refreshing to see that someone in CRT actually knows what they are doing ! 

 

A good sign. 

 

 

Edited by magnetman
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42 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Would it not be a good idea then to encourage home moorers (using strict enforcement) to move every 48hrs? 
For it’s surely the home moorers who clog the system come the good weather. 
 

 

I think that generally 'leisure boaters' that only have an odd week or two and weekends for their holidays do not tend to come out of their marina and moor up for 7-14 days, they tend to cruise most / every day to maximise their holiday.

 

Leisure boaters are not mooring-hoggers, it is the infrequent movment of CMers and CCers that tend to stay put for long periods because they have nothing to do and all day to do it.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think that generally 'leisure boaters' that only have an odd week or two and weekends for their holidays do not tend to come out of their marina and moor up for 7-14 days, they tend to cruise most / every day to maximise their holiday.

 

Leisure boaters are not mooring-hoggers, it is the infrequent movment of CMers and CCers that tend to stay put for long periods because they have nothing to do and all day to do it.

To be fair there are also quite a lot of people who take the view that mooring for 14 days at a time and using the boat occasionally for cruises is a good way to save on mooring fees and also cover more of the system. 

 

I think you will find that a lot of boats left on 14 day moorings are not lived on. In nicer parts of the country rather than inner cities it could easily be a majority specially from April to October. 

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