Illegal to use red diesel for boat propulsion

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Russia is stopping production of diesel for exports have a Google 

 

5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

This is all I can find now but it should help 

 

 

 

But surely, that is not "Russia stops production of diesel for exports", but rather "Russia cuts back on production due to lower demand following sanctions"

[MtB]

Surely that is just Russia cutting back on production in response to their international market for diesel shrinking, rather than "stopping diesel production for exports" as you asserted.

[magnetman]

Shall I do it for a third time? 

[Momac]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

But sometimes it is, if you buy fuel canalside then most retailers have to ask how you intend to use the fuel and collect duty from you.

Try ordering a drum of diesel and the supplier will likely ask what the intended use is.

But if the purchasers response is dishonest the retailer cannot be held liable. 

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

But surely, that is not "Russia stops production of diesel for exports", but rather "Russia cuts back on production due to lower demand following sanctions"

 

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Surely that is just Russia cutting back on production in response to their international market for diesel shrinking, rather than "stopping diesel production for exports" as you asserted.

Europe is going to be short of diesel think how much is going to the war in Ukraine and they are cutting production back? Its not rocket science why diesel is so much more expensive than petrol currently 

[ditchcrawler]

Red diesel at Streethay was 175p/lt that is 10p/lt more than I paid to fill the car yesterday with white

[john6767]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Red diesel at Streethay was 175p/lt that is 10p/lt more than I paid to fill the car yesterday with white

Not had to buy any diesel for the boat since last year, is the 175p/lt the propulsion price or domestic?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Red diesel at Streethay was 175p/lt that is 10p/lt more than I paid to fill the car yesterday with white

I gave you a wave as you went by 👋 

1 hour ago, john6767 said:

Not had to buy any diesel for the boat since last year, is the 175p/lt the propulsion price or domestic?

domestic I think 

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I gave you a wave as you went by 👋 

domestic I think 

I wondered if it was your boat in there when I saw the name.

[Rob-M]

Saul Junction were advertising diesel at 169p/Lt for domestic on the weekend.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Saul Junction were advertising diesel at 169p/Lt for domestic on the weekend.

 

Shirley that would make 'propulsion' diesel at over £2, with garage 'white' at £1.69 (full tax and duty paid) its worth taking a couple of Jerry cans to the 'local garage'.

[David Mack]

13 hours ago, john.k said:

 

13 hours ago, john.k said:

In fact the old engines were designed to run on a much  more viscous diesel than whats sold now.............the stuff was brown ,and called #2 diesel,or #2 tractor fuel,and about 1/2 the price of white #1 diesel......(Diesel fuels went to #5 ,which was black and sticky and had to be steam heated to flow)

And advertised as such:

Edited March 28, 2022 by David Mack

[gatekrash]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Shirley that would make 'propulsion' diesel at over £2, with garage 'white' at £1.69 (full tax and duty paid) its worth taking a couple of Jerry cans to the 'local garage'.

Indeed, we put 50 litres in a couple of weeks ago at our marina on our usual 60/40 split and it was just over £100. We said we'll use the cans next time and just get white.

[doratheexplorer]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Shirley that would make 'propulsion' diesel at over £2, with garage 'white' at £1.69 (full tax and duty paid) its worth taking a couple of Jerry cans to the 'local garage'.

It's even more worth buying some vegetable oil from the supermarket.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

It's even more worth buying some vegetable oil from the supermarket.

 

True - about £1.20 per litre, but HMG have even thought of that and stipulated that full duty must be paid on 'vegetable oils' used for propulsion.

 

 

How do they know ?

 

Smell that - a floating chip-shop just went past.

[MtB]

I've heard a number of tales recently that you can make your own 'white diesel' by buying 20 litre drums of cooking oil from Costco and mixing in a litre or two of petrol.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

I've heard a number of tales recently that you can make your own 'white diesel' by buying 20 litre drums of cooking oil from Costco and mixing in a litre or two of petrol.

 

 

 

 

Of course you can.

 

Many years ago when TVO production ceased we would make our own TVO with 50/50 heating oil and petrol giving about 59 Octane and 2/3rds petrol & 1/3rd Heating oil giving about 72 Octane.

 

We tried running on 100% petrol but they ran way to hot, and with petrol at about 4/- a gallon it was far to expensive to use 100% petrol.

[JamesWoolcock]

17 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Red diesel at Streethay was 175p/lt that is 10p/lt more than I paid to fill the car yesterday with white

So whose having your rebate?

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, JamesWoolcock said:

So whose having your rebate?

 

I'd say the retailer deserves it. 

 

He keeps 5,000 of diesel in stock so the odd boater can turn up every day or two and buy 100 litres. He deserves/needs to make a LOT more profit on each litre sold than the petrol station who sells perhaps 100 litres a minute in busy periods.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'd say the retailer deserves it. 

 

He keeps 5,000 of diesel in stock so the odd boater can turn up every day or two and buy 100 litres. He deserves/needs to make a LOT more profit on each litre sold than the petrol station who sells perhaps 100 litres a minute in busy periods.

 

 

 

And, only buying the odd 1000/2000 litres at a time he will be paying way over the price that Asda etc are paying, they are buying 'millions' of litres per day, so obviously he has to charge more.

 

Sometimes I wonder if people who have never actually 'been in business' have any understanding of how the world realy works - it is very different to turning up, working 9-5 and getting your pay cheque at the end of the month - even if you are off work ill, or on holiday, the money still comes in.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[peterboat]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And, only buying the odd 1000/2000 litres at a time he will be paying way over the price that Asda etc are paying, they are buying 'millions' of litres per day, so obviously he has to charge more.

 

Sometimes I wonder if people who have never actually 'been in business' have any understanding of how the world realy works - it is very different to turning up, working 9-5 and getting your pay cheque at the end of the month - even if you are off work ill, or on holiday, the money still comes in.

We used to have LPG for when I did gas conversions, the stuff was more expensive than buying it from Mprrisons! I then met a guy that took out LPG from old domestic tanks and my problems were solved, my car running got very very cheap from then on

[Mike Todd]

22 hours ago, MartynG said:

But if the purchasers response is dishonest the retailer cannot be held liable. 

Not, I believe 100% true: at least at bone stage the relevant Govt authorities held that the retailer had a duty to not collude with self evidently false declarations. For instance, if a boat turned up using its engine and asked for 0% split then the retailer might be said to be colluding. It was certainly said with enough conviction to persuade some marinas never to accept 0% (1% would be OK!)

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Not, I believe 100% true: at least at bone stage the relevant Govt authorities held that the retailer had a duty to not collude with self evidently false declarations. For instance, if a boat turned up using its engine and asked for 0% split then the retailer might be said to be colluding. It was certainly said with enough conviction to persuade some marinas never to accept 0% (1% would be OK!)

 

The counter argument there is that the boater is required to declare the intended use i.e. the planned, future use of the fuel being bought now, not the historical use of the previous purchase. So it is perfectly feasible for a boater to turn up running on 60/40 and buy a stock of fuel intended for wholly domestic use. 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Not, I believe 100% true: at least at bone stage the relevant Govt authorities held that the retailer had a duty to not collude with self evidently false declarations. For instance, if a boat turned up using its engine and asked for 0% split then the retailer might be said to be colluding. It was certainly said with enough conviction to persuade some marinas never to accept 0% (1% would be OK!)

 

When I was based in a BWML marina the fuel pump was converted from 'attended' to 'self use' and used a 'credit card' type of device. You could choose to have a 60/40 card, or a 100% domestic card (we had both) and when you inserted your card the pump automatically charged the relevant rate for the card used.

 

If you didn't apply for a card, or were a visitor wanting diesel then the pump could be used "Attended service" by the site manager

 

Blue Card — 60/40% duty rate

From December 2017, if you wish to purchase Gas Oil (Red Diesel) from our marinas with an AUTO-VEND facility you will need to have a BWML Fuel Card to enable you to operate the dispense pump. This will enable you to purchase GAS Oil at the 60/40% duty rate and then pay for it with your chosen payment card at the pump at any time.

 

Green Card — 0% duty rate for either Boating/Domestic or Non-Road Use

From December 2017, if you wish to purchase Gas Oil (Red Diesel) from a BWML marina at 0% duty for either Boating/Domestic or Non-Road Use you will need to have a BWML Fuel Card (Green). This will identify you as a customer whose use for the fuel allows them to purchase it at the 0% duty rate.

 

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

Running diesels on vegetable oli is not new. I have a book on diesel engines published in 1912. The author got Dr. Diesel himself to contribute the preface, in which the good doctor  mentions that, at an international exhibition in Paris in 1900, one of his unmodified engines had been successfully run throughout on peanut oil, and that this opened up the possibility of diesel engines still being able to be run by using energy derived from the sun after the world's supplies of oil from the earth had been exhausted. Of course, engines were simpler then.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ronaldo47
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