De Luxe Hosiery- a cunning plan

[Tony1]

Sorry, that was outrageous clickbait. 

I meant hose-ery.

 

Because it has crossed my mind that it would be quite nice to upgrade my watering arrangements. 

I do have an excellent 20m expandable hose that has done a great job for the last 18 months, and stows down into a very small box. 

My one slight niggle is that it doesn't really work with a reel, so it lays on the ground, and at the grubbier/muddier water points this means it gets filthy. 

Admittedly not a big deal really. Very much a first-world problem.

 

So basically, things aren't broken, and that means I have to fix them. 

And what I have been thinking about is a self-retracting hose, like this:

 

https://www.diy.com/departments/verve-wall-mounted-hose-reel-set-l-25m/5059340250960_BQ.prd

 

The hose itself is pulled out against the modest tension of a spring, so that in order to work, the reel has to be fixed in place by mounting it on a wall - so that would mean the front cabin wall, next to one of the doors.

The default position would be to have the reel dismounted on the cratch floor, so as not to impede the opening of the front doors.

The procedure would be: pull up at the water point, seat the hose reel on its mount, and then pull out the hose until it reaches the tap. 

 

The tap attachment would be placed on the end where the spray nozzle normally goes, and the nozzle would be placed on the end of the short length of hose that normally gets connected to a tap. So the ends are reversed. 

 

Once you reach the tap, the user lets the hose retract itself back in slightly, and the reel will then lock in place (i.e. stop trying to retract), and can be attached to the tap with no tension on it, other than a horizontal pull due to the weight of the hose itself, which I envisage would be hanging between the reel and the tap- and the real benefit of this is that the hose itself would not touch the ground (if not extended too far). 

 

Its also very handy that when finished, the hose 'lock' is undone by another outward pull on the hose, and then you let it reel itself in. 

 For me as a single hander the idea of just letting the hose wind itself in really appeals. It has a moving guide as it feeds back onto the reel, to help avoid it getting bunched or tangled on the reel. 

 

I've no idea whether this procedure would really work in practice. 

For example, would the horizontal pull due to the weight of the hose cause a kink at the tap end? And if so, could one fit a sleeve of some sort around it, to reduce the amount of bend/kink? 

 

And if the water point was abaft of the bow, would the hose kink where it entered the guide that feeds it back into the reel? Does the self-retracting only work if the hose is fed from the front of the reel, and not at an angle? 

It would be very disappointing to spend the best part of £100 and find that I had to bring the hose around to a position where it was feeding in from the front of the reel, but of course you often dont find out these sorts of snags until you try it for yourself. 

Has anyone tried this kind of self-winding reel? If so, do you think it would work on a boat? 

Is this the Next Big Thing in hose-ry, or a non-starter?

 

 

[frahkn]

The moment I attach a hose to a tap, a continuous stream of cyclists, pedestrians, dogs etc start walking by. Most of these (perhaps not the dogs) would fall over the hose if it were off the ground and then sue me.

[Tony1]

Just now, frahkn said:

The moment I attach a hose to a tap, a continuous stream of cyclists, pedestrians, dogs etc start walking by. Most of these (perhaps not the dogs) would fall over the hose if it were off the ground and then sue me.

 

What I'm thinking is that suspending the hose above the ground would only be feasible when there is no easy public access. 

Where the hose has to cross a towpath its never going to be possible. 

 

[dmr]

In Chester an angry cyclist wrenched the hose out of the boat, did lots of swearing about His cycleway, and threw the hose into the grass. In Newbury an angry Jack Russel was sure the hose was a dangerous snake and comprehensively savaged it.

[Tony1]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

In Chester an angry cyclist wrenched the hose out of the boat, did lots of swearing about His cycleway, and threw the hose into the grass. In Newbury an angry Jack Russel was sure the hose was a dangerous snake and comprehensively savaged it.

 

Yes, obviously when crossing a towpath a hose has to lay flat on the ground at all times. 

 

But what caused your angry cyclist to kick off? Rolling over a water hose is surely a routine thing for them?

 

 

[haggis]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

What I'm thinking is that suspending the hose above the ground would only be feasible when there is no easy public access. 

Where the hose has to cross a towpath its never going to be possible. 

 

A good idea but I can't think of many water points which are not beside the towpath and therefore passers by would need to jump over or duck under your hose. Unless of course you put up a couple of six foot high supports to hold the hose up .  If you are happy with your current hose why not have a wet cloth handy and wipe the hose when you are finished with it ?  

[Lady M]

It is easier to empty all the water out of the hose if none of it is wound round a reel.  You don't really want to leave water sitting in the hose if you can avoid it.  Having discovered the disadvantages of a lay flat hose, we now use a reel with a turning handle.

[Mike Tee]

It would be fine until either the tension mechanism or the bit going into the tap failed - I see 20 metres of flailing hose watering everything in its path💦

[Tony1]

8 minutes ago, haggis said:

 If you are happy with your current hose why not have a wet cloth handy and wipe the hose when you are finished with it ?  

 

Oh dear me, no, Mrs H. That would be far too simple and far too sensible. 

 

Tbh I was thinking of places like Calveley or Ellesmere, where there is no easy public access to the facilities, and no through foot traffic.

But even there, I'm not sure the other boaters would appreciate a hose hanging a foot above the ground. 

 

On the plus side, even if you cant often keep the hose off the ground, the retracting hoses do seem at least to be quite handy to use. 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Tony1

[Tony1]

20 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

It would be fine until either the tension mechanism or the bit going into the tap failed - I see 20 metres of flailing hose watering everything in its path💦

 

I think if the tension spring failed, the hose would effectively become a normal hose on a reel, surely? 

If the locking mechanism failed the hose would try to retract itself, but if I understand it correctly, its not a strong pull- certainly nowhere near enough to pull a hose out of its end socket thing.

 

I do agree that 'hanging' a hose would add to the stress on the end connected to the tap, and you can imagine that could eventually fail. 

It does seem as if trying to hang up the hose even by a few inches is not really going to work, or would work in so few places that its not worth the effort. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Tony1

[Tony1]

21 minutes ago, Lady C said:

It is easier to empty all the water out of the hose if none of it is wound round a reel.  You don't really want to leave water sitting in the hose if you can avoid it.  Having discovered the disadvantages of a lay flat hose, we now use a reel with a turning handle.

 

I will say that I take a bit of what is written here with a pinch of salt.

Whenever flat hoses are mentioned, for example, half a dozen people will say 'they burst', even though most have never owned one, or done any real research.

(That said, in this case the naysayers do seem to be correct- lay flat hoses do seem to have an unacceptably high risk of bursting, and I am persuaded not to bother trying one.)  

 

But I do agree with you, and I don't like the idea of water sitting in a hose for a week, especially in a 'greenhouse' cratch during the summer. I think that looks like a significant downside for self-retracting hoses.

But is it a complete showstopper?

To be fair, I have no clear idea what the risks from that really are. It is possible that it would be fine, as long as you run some water through the hose and overboard, before you start filling the tank. 

Hopefully someone will be able to clarify the extent of the real risk arising from leaving water in a hose for several days. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Tony1

[Hudds Lad]

27 minutes ago, dmr said:

In Chester an angry cyclist wrenched the hose out of the boat, did lots of swearing about His cycleway, and threw the hose into the grass.

 

A competent cyclist would have seen this as an excellent opportunity to practice their bunny-hop technique and gone on their merry way. A less competent one would have employed a liberal dose of Common Sense™ and dismounted to negotiate the obstruction.

 

What you seem to have encountered is either a MAMIL, a Strava Hunter or a Cycle Commuter and not a cyclist.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

Oh dear me, no, Mrs H. That would be far too simple and far too sensible. 

 

If you want 'simple' why not just buy a suitable length of (say) 22mm ID hose, you can then feed your 'good' hose thru it keeping it mud-free & clean. Roll it up and put it away.

 

If you are worried about your 'sleeve-hose' getting muddy and dirty, just buy some (say) 35mm ID hose that you can feed your 'sleeve-hose' thru, this then means your 'sleeve-hose' stays clean.

 

Ad-Infinitum

[TheBiscuits]

Sounds complicated.  I just use one of these ...

 

 

 

[jonathanA]

Gosh what a parlaver....

Too much thinking about a non problem. I have 10m of good quality hose for filling g from mooring tap when Bow is close to tap and a 20 m hose for when the stern is close to the tap and a connector for when I need 30m of hose. Both hoses are coiled by hand (like you would a heavy line) and secured with a short bit of rope. 

 

Simples... nothing to break or wear out or trip people up....

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you want 'simple' why not just buy a suitable length of (say) 22mm ID hose, you can then feed your 'good' hose thru it keeping it mud-free & clean. Roll it up and put it away.

 

If you are worried about your 'sleeve-hose' getting muddy and dirty, just buy some (say) 35mm ID hose that you can feed your 'sleeve-hose' thru, this then means your 'sleeve-hose' stays clean.

 

Ad-Infinitum

 

Thanks, that seems like a pretty good shout, and one to keep in mind if I do go for a PVC hose. 

Since the idea of hanging up the hose above the ground looks like it wouldn't work in many locations, a protective sleeve might be a good alternative when things are muddy.

I guess the thing to bear in mind is that the inner diameter would have to be wide enough that the tap connector would go through it as well as the hose, so perhaps 40mm? That would make the outer diameter maybe 46-50mm.

 

The (slight) concern about a sleeve is that some cyclists may start to object to it, as it would present them with a 2 inch bump to get over. 

It wouldn't be needed all the time, only when things are a bit gross around the water point.

 

 

[Tony1]

12 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Gosh what a parlaver....

Too much thinking about a non problem.

 

Yes, I did admit that I am thinking of fixing something that isnt broken. It's a not a problem in any way.

 

And normal hose reels are fine of course, and I may well end up with one. 

But I am quite attracted to the idea of making things more convenient, and just taking the hose end from a fixed reel and leading it over to the tap .I also like the idea of it winding itself back in, but again I dont know if the rewinding would work when the hose was being fed in from a side angle. Its little things like that which can mean you waste a lot of money. 

 

Since I have to do this task every week or two all year round and throughout the winter, and in a few very muddy spots, I'm a bit more inclined to look at ways of making it more convenient and streamlined, but in this case I think maybe the retractable hose idea is not my best ever.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Tony1

[PeterScott]

[Beo]

We have a retracting hose reel as you describe fixed to the side of the well deck under the cratch. The tap attachment is on the end where the nozzle would be and the centre, short hose that would normally be attached to the tap at home ,has a short length of hose attached which is long enough to poke out under the cratch cover and into the water filler in the water tank in the bow.

Because the hose is pulled out at an angle that it is not designed for, the locking mechanism does not work as efficiently as it should. It is actually a two person job: one to feed out the hose to the tap from under the cratch cover and pass out the shorter length to be poked in the filler. It works as we designed it to which was specifically to avoid a mud covered hose pipe! I’m sure it could be doable single-handed.

[frangar]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

In Chester an angry cyclist wrenched the hose out of the boat, did lots of swearing about His cycleway, and threw the hose into the grass. In Newbury an angry Jack Russel was sure the hose was a dangerous snake and comprehensively savaged it.

I think I would have invited the cyclist to have a refreshing swim and diving session while he looked for his bike which had sunk to the bottom of the cut had that been me…..

[Ex Brummie]

Chester residents are notoriously possessive about 'their cycleway'. I once upset one as I had tied my centre rope to the railings whilst closing the top gate, going down. He didn't quite garotte himself and was most abusive when I suggested he followed B.W.'s (at the time) guidance from the back of their Towpath Permit he should have.

[Tony1]

2 hours ago, Beo said:

 

Because the hose is pulled out at an angle that it is not designed for, the locking mechanism does not work as efficiently as it should. It is actually a two person job: one to feed out the hose to the tap from under the cratch cover and pass out the shorter length to be poked in the filler.

 

Thanks very much for this info. 

If you dont mind, I have a couple of queries:

 

Firstly, how often do you get a chance to leave the hose hung off the ground? As has been said, it seems impossible when the hose crosses a towpath, as it becomes a tripping hazard for pedestrians. Of the last four water taps I've used, I think I could have safely kept the hose off the ground at two of them.

 

Also- how well does the retracting work if the hose is fed back in from the side?

In the youtube videos you see them feeding the hose directly back into the reel from a head-on angle.

But of course in my case, it would have to be done from the side- I would loosen the locking mechanism by tugging, and then walk back with the end of the hose, allowing it to wind itself back in. 

The mounting for the reel is on a swivel, so the 'entrance' of the reel can turn to face the incoming hose, at least to an extent.

Have you evert tried doing it single handed? 

 

The thing is, if its loads of hassle trying to get it to feed in properly, and if the locking mechanism is a bit tricky from a side angle, it all starts to look so tricky that I might as well just get a standard hose reel.

 

With a standard manual reel you would take the reel out to the tap, and connect it via the short length of hose.

If you can keep some tension in the hose by attaching the nozzle to your tank filler somehow, you can then reel in the hose as you walk back to the boat. This would still allow you to keep the hose off the ground where safe. 

I think Machpoint does something like this.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Tony1

[Beo]

We never leave the hose dangling above ground level. Person A in the well deck can run the hose through a rag as it goes back into the reel to clean it if necessary. I have never tried it single handed. The hardest bit to do with our set up would be getting the short end into the water filler.

Not having to unravel a hose on a muddy towpath then having to wind it in after the whole thing is splattered in mud thanks to passing walkers and cyclists and worse from pissing dogs was one of my non-negotiatables when boat owning was first mentioned!

[Tony1]

11 minutes ago, Beo said:

We never leave the hose dangling above ground level. Person A in the well deck can run the hose through a rag as it goes back into the reel to clean it if necessary. I have never tried it single handed. The hardest bit to do with our set up would be getting the short end into the water filler.

Not having to unravel a hose on a muddy towpath then having to wind it in after thte whole thing is splattered in mud thanks to passing walkers and cyclists and worse from pissing dogs was one of my non-negoiatables when boat owning was first mentioned!

 

Thanks very much for that clarification, I had misunderstood how you keep the hose clean in muddy conditions.

The problem I have is that these seem to cost in the region of £100 and more, and I might get one then find that I'm struggling to get the winding and locking mechanisms to work under boating conditions (and from what you say, the locking thing doesnt work very well at a sideways angle).

That would be a lot of money on something I'm not happy with, and because of the cost I'd feel obliged to stick with it and use it every week, even if it was driving me nuts trying to do it solo. 

 

To me at the moment, without knowing how well the retracting aspect works at different angles, the safe bet seems to be a normal hose reel. 

I would take over to the water tap, connect it using the short hose, and then pull out the nozzle end and lead it back to the boat.

Or the other way around maybe- leave the reel in the cratch, and put the short end into the water filler, and the long end pulled over to the tap. 

I'm not sure which of those would be the handiest way to do things, but fortunately its easy to swap over connectors if I want to try it out. 

 

I cant remember where I heard the idea of keeping the hose off the ground, but it sounds like a non-starter for most of the time, so I'll have to settle for wiping it clean after use when in a muddy spot. 

 Oh well. I'm glad I asked before I took the plunge on that idea! 

 

[Jon57]

6 hours ago, jonathanA said:

Gosh what a parlaver....

Too much thinking about a non problem. I have 10m of good quality hose for filling g from mooring tap when Bow is close to tap and a 20 m hose for when the stern is close to the tap and a connector for when I need 30m of hose. Both hoses are coiled by hand (like you would a heavy line) and secured with a short bit of rope. 

 

Simples... nothing to break or wear out or trip people up....

I use two of these. 1x30mtr and 1x10mtr can be joined together just goes into a plastic bag takes up very little room.