Complete beginner, looking at residential boating: Is buying a boat for me?

[EasyToAssemble]

Hello All. I'm a complete beginner, looking for guidance on starting out in narrowboating. I don't yet own a narrowboat, but am considering one as a permanent residence. I realise this is a question often asked, but I thought I'd create a new post, as I potentially have some questions specific to my circumstances.

 

Preamble

I've started thinking about a narrowboat, as I'm on the cusp of being a first time buyer, but have recently started having doubts about shelling out for bricks and mortar:

A) shelling out for a 10% mortgage whilst prices are the highest they've ever been. They say property is an investment, but the idea of possibly overpaying, and owing the bank that much for decades doesn't sound as wise as it should do.

B ) the appeal of owning my own home will be limited, if I can't afford to live in an area I'll actually like.

 

Costs?

Via blogs and Youtubers, I've started to get an idea of the true costs of owning a narrowboat, so I'm hopefully coming into this armed with a realistic outlook. I realise it's "how long is a piece of string", but what would be a good estimate of A) the cost of a used 36ft in decent condition, and B ) the annual costs of 1 person on that boat, with permanent residency moorings in the West Midlands?. The figures I've seen banded about are anywhere between £2.5k to £6k (though the latter was a 55ft owner with other vehicles).

 

Boat Loans (mortgages)?

As I'm expecting the cost of narrowboats to exceed my saved amount, I'd be looking at borrowing the rest. Obviously, a life without credit is ideal. But, has anyone used finance to help them purchase a narrowboat? Apart from the obvious one of borrowing money (and interest rates), what things should I consider if going this route?

 

Permanent Residency (West Midlands)?

The one essential criteria - at least for now - is being able to get a residential mooring, due to working full time. I realise these are in limited supply, and I have checked the Canal and River Trust site for mooring listings to get a rough idea. My nearest ideal would be Wyken Basin on the Coventry canal, but also have family / contacts around Leamington Spa (Grand Union). Is the West Midlands a decent spot to be looking for residential moorings, and marinas in general?

 

Working a full-time job with a boat?

Does anyone here manage to juggle a full time job (as an employee) and boat commitments, with a residential mooring? Is it doable? Do you find boat maintenance or mooring arrangements are an interruption to that? Are there many marinas in the West Mids near to rail routes?

 

Practical handywork experience?

I don't have any experience with engines or electricals, though I'll be willing to learn. Would this be a barrier to starting out or checking boats when buying? I know there's a few narrowboating courses (Leicester being the nearest), which may give me some experience. 

 

Conclusion

Overall, I'm not expecting narrowboating to be a cheap, easy way to live. But, provided it's affordable and possible with a full-time job, I would be willing to take the adjustment in lifestyle, increase in self reliance, to reap the rewards of seeing some fantastic scenery, at least some option of changing my environment / my neighbours when it suits, and actually owning my own home within a much shorter timeframe than if I bought a house. Hopefully, I'm adopting the right attitude here.

 

Any advice and information (and encouragement) on the above would be gratefully received!

[Tracy D'arth]

Your biggest problem by a long chalk is finding a residential mooring. In reality they legally do not exist except in tiny numbers down south.

Most are under the radar marina or farm moorings where the "residents" keep a low profile and illegally live on their boats. You have absolutely no rights of tenancy on a boat, you can be told to leave immediately. Consider what such a situation would mean to you as an employee needing to work to pay off a loan for a boat.

If you cannot afford to buy a boat outright, you cannot afford the maintenance or the overheads either.

[EasyToAssemble]

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your biggest problem by a long chalk is finding a residential mooring. In reality they legally do not exist except in tiny numbers down south.

Most are under the radar marina or farm moorings where the "residents" keep a low profile and illegally live on their boats. You have absolutely no rights of tenancy on a boat, you can be told to leave immediately. Consider what such a situation would mean to you as an employee needing to work to pay off a loan for a boat.

If you cannot afford to buy a boat outright, you cannot afford the maintenance or the overheads either.

I've had a look on the Canal and River Trust Waterside Mooring search, which shows residential moorings in various marinas around the UK. Do these listings not reflect actual availability?

Financially, I've added up the overheads WITH potential loan repayments, and it's doable. Aside from how the mooring situation affects my ability to work (the deciding factor), I'm not sure how any borrowing differs from taking out a mortgage; something the vast majority of homeowners do. Borrowing that sum doesn't exclude them from paying to maintain (or even improve on) their purchase.

[Jak]

There is a lot to comment on here, and I’m no expert. But I’m going to pick on “36ft boat”.  If you are going to live on a narrowboat a permanent bedroom is very desirable. I’d also want a dinette as well as a main saloon. You need more like a 45ft+ for that bedroom and more for the dinette. Do you really want to live with a sofa bed, made up every night? I know I would not. 
 

Good luck. And do rent a boat if you haven’t. It’s from enjoyment of rental boats that we realised we love the canals and bought one. 
 

[Tracy D'arth]

17 minutes ago, EasyToAssemble said:

I've had a look on the Canal and River Trust Waterside Mooring search, which shows residential moorings in various marinas around the UK. Do these listings not reflect actual availability?

Financially, I've added up the overheads WITH potential loan repayments, and it's doable. Aside from how the mooring situation affects my ability to work (the deciding factor), I'm not sure how any borrowing differs from taking out a mortgage; something the vast majority of homeowners do. Borrowing that sum doesn't exclude them from paying to maintain (or even improve on) their purchase.

What you have found are moorings near residential property, not residential boat moorings, there is a huge difference.

[Ray T]

Wyken basin, I doubt there are residential moorings there.
Wyken Basin Moorings | Coventry Canal Society (covcanalsoc.org.uk)

 

There are residential moorings at Exhall Basin but you would need to get in touch with CRT about these.

Exhall Basin L1 :: Waterside Moorings

Vacancies here are like hens teeth though.

 

Bankside moorings are available just on the Oxford Canal at Sutton stop aka Hawkesbury Junction.

Also on the Coventry Canal in this area.

 

Wigrams Marina may have liveaboards but it is not officially a residential marina.

[Mad Harold]

You don't say what your budget is.

There are at the moment three or four narrowboats on Facebook Marketplace for less than £20K.

As Tracy says,residential moorings are fairly rare and expensive and liable for council tax!

More people are "under the radar", which means a leisure mooring where the management are rather "laisez fair"one that I know has a rule that you have to take yourself and/or your boat off on holiday for a couple of weeks a year,so supposedly complying with the non full time residential rule.

About a boat;if you can cope with a smaller boat (30 to 40ft) will be ok for a single person, but a fixed bed is essential.I had a boat with a bed that had to be made up every night, and dismantled every morning before I could get out,and after a weeks cruise I was really fed up with this.

Just a minor point.These cheap boats on Facebook two of them are on the Lancaster canal which means a transit of the Ribble Link ( go to old posts on here to find what is involved) assuming you are not keeping the boat on the Lancaster.

Ribble link is shut untill Mar 18 anyway,lock 7 I think.

Best of luck with your boat search,and please let us know how you get on.

[David Mack]

A 36ft boat is quite small even for a single person. If you're used to a house you may well find it claustrophobic. On the other hand if you've been happily living in a campervan for years you should be fine.

Think about what you want in terms of 'rooms' then have a look at the layout plans on broker websites to see what can be fitted in different length boats.

Marine mortgages are available but only from one or two lenders. Most people who need to borrow for boat purchase use an ordinary bank personal loan. Usually up to £25k available, subject to your financial circumstances. The loan is personal to you, and not secured on the boat.

Most residential boaters are either continuous cruisers or live on leisure moorings. Proper residential moorings with planning permission are akin to hens teeth, rocking horse excreta etc. Many leisure mooring operators turn a blind eye to liveaboards as long as you behave reasonably. The downside is you probably can't use the mooring as your official address or receive post or deliveries there. And if you take the boat out for an occasional trip out then you aren't a permanent resident are you!

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, EasyToAssemble said:

I've had a look on the Canal and River Trust Waterside Mooring search, which shows residential moorings in various marinas around the UK. Do these listings not reflect actual availability?

Financially, I've added up the overheads WITH potential loan repayments, and it's doable. Aside from how the mooring situation affects my ability to work (the deciding factor), I'm not sure how any borrowing differs from taking out a mortgage; something the vast majority of homeowners do. Borrowing that sum doesn't exclude them from paying to maintain (or even improve on) their purchase.

Essentially you are buying a liabity not an asset, the world of finance does not like this idea. 

Your 36ft boat is very small, uncomfortably so imho, and you won't realistically be able to add value by buying a project boat, else the current owner would not be selling. 

Your 36ft boat is unlikely to find a 36ft residential mooring, so you may pay for a 50 or 60 ft mooring. 

PS imho you will need shore power, or you will have to run a generator all weekend, and so upset your neighbours. 

Not sure if this will suit you, but others have chosen a narrow boat as an alternative to bricks and mortar, and it suits some of them. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by LadyG

[frahkn]

Alvecote has no official residential moorings but plenty of people live on their boats. As long as you take it out now and again, I don't think anyone would comment.

[Bee]

You can moor on the towpath and just keep moving the boat every couple of weeks but it gets tedious. You need to have a long walk up a few towpaths and check out the mud and nearest parking and how far you will need to carry stuff, it can be a real pain in the dark, cold, wet, muddy winter. Electricity is always a problem, batteries are useless things that go flat and take several hours to charge for an hours worth of telly. Officialdom is a problem, living on a boat can make you feel vulnerable as your rights are very slim. Its not so much 'freedom' as 'trapped' on a ribbon of water owned by a landlord who has power over where you go, what you pay and a gret heap of by laws relating to your boat. There, that's some of the bad bits. If you can cope with that (and its expensive too) then the good bits are pretty good.  I lived on board for 12 years but I have always been interested in boats and the 'boat as a home' bit was not really the most important part. We still have a boat but it is very much a travelling thing and not a moored up home. Good luck and if you feel a boat is something you really want then go for it,

[Mike Hurley]

A 36 foot trad stern will give you few more feet of living space compared to cruiser stern. A fixed bed on a boat that size is a total waste of space in my opinion. Its not hard to make a bed up at each end of the day, 5 mins max, and you dont have a 6x4 space doing nothing. If you can stand to watch him, Dan Brown on you tube lived on a 30 foot cruiser stern for some time, may give you some idea. Bathroom, kitchen, living/bedroom and a solid fuel stove is all you need.  Compare license fee, mooring costs and blacking a 36 footer to a 50 footer, all counts if you are on a budget. Maintenance will be costly if you have to pay someone so learn all you can, especially battery care.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Mike Hurley

[pearley]

16 hours ago, Ray T said:

Wigrams Marina may have liveaboards but it is not officially a residential marina.

From our time there I would reckon a good third of their moorers are liveaboard. They even allow you to receive post.

16 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

What you have found are moorings near residential property, not residential boat moorings, there is a huge difference.

There are a number of CRT/Waterside Moorings with full residential status in the Birmingham area. The downside is that Council Tax is levied on top of the mooring fee.

[doratheexplorer]

17 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your biggest problem by a long chalk is finding a residential mooring. In reality they legally do not exist except in tiny numbers down south.

Most are under the radar marina or farm moorings where the "residents" keep a low profile and illegally live on their boats. You have absolutely no rights of tenancy on a boat, you can be told to leave immediately. Consider what such a situation would mean to you as an employee needing to work to pay off a loan for a boat.

If you cannot afford to buy a boat outright, you cannot afford the maintenance or the overheads either.

I'm sorry but this just isn't true at all.

 

There are plenty of official resi moorings in the Midlands, probably more than anywhere else on the network.  Just in the Birmingham area, and only looking at CRT moorings, off the top of my head there are resi at:  Gas Street Basin, Hockley Port, Smethwick Engine Arm, Ocker Hill, Cuckoo Wharf and Silver Street.  Other resi moorings are around too, such as a Hawne Basin.  I have a feelings there's resi down the Stourbridge Arm too. 

 

The CRT moorings come up fairly regularly on CRTs waterside moorings site.

 

On top of that, as other's have said, living on a leisure mooring under the radar is common, especially on CRT moorings where nobody is checking.  Just use a friend or family address for mail.  If you enjoy going cruising regularly, then lots of other leisure moorings at marinas and boat clubs become an option because you wouldn't be living permanently at the moorings.

 

Returning to the original question:  yes, I work full time from my boat and cruise most of the year too.  I used to be office based but now I work from my boat.  Both options are quite doable with a bit of planning and organisation.  I run a car and move my boat every week or two, then walk/run/cycle back to collect my car.

[doratheexplorer]

17 hours ago, EasyToAssemble said:

I've had a look on the Canal and River Trust Waterside Mooring search, which shows residential moorings in various marinas around the UK. Do these listings not reflect actual availability?
 

The listings are correct.  You can search by "available", "coming soon" and "occupied".

 

Tracy doesn't seem to know what she's talking about.

17 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

What you have found are moorings near residential property, not residential boat moorings, there is a huge difference.

WHAT?  Are you drunk?  The resi moorings on watersidemooring.com are proper residential moorings, with planning permission and council tax liability etc.  They come with a residential address and a post box.

[doratheexplorer]

If you don't mind living in a horrible area, there's one available now:  https://www.watersidemooring.com/322-cuckoo-wharf-residential-moorings-l1

 

But I'd recommend you cruise for a while while you wait for a better mooring to come up.

[pearley]

32 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

If you don't mind living in a horrible area, there's one available now:  https://www.watersidemooring.com/322-cuckoo-wharf-residential-moorings-l1

 

But I'd recommend you cruise for a while while you wait for a better mooring to come up.

That mooring has been empty for years. If they replaced the torn up mooring ring they could advertise it at a longer length and possibly let it. But not if they close the facilities block - which is only an elsan really.

[doratheexplorer]

12 minutes ago, pearley said:

That mooring has been empty for years. If they replaced the torn up mooring ring they could advertise it at a longer length and possibly let it. But not if they close the facilities block - which is only an elsan really.

They'd be better off auctioning it with a £1 reserve and seeing what it actually went for.

[ditchcrawler]

On 17/02/2022 at 11:12, frahkn said:

Alvecote has no official residential moorings but plenty of people live on their boats. As long as you take it out now and again, I don't think anyone would comment.

Not sure how far the wide beams go 🙂 

[Tony1]

 

As mentioned above, watch some of Dan Brown's videos from around 2016 when he was living and CCing on a 30ft boat whilst working full time at a locally based job. There are lots of other liveaboards you can find on youtube who are also CCing.

He doesn't specify minimum distances cruised when CCing, but having lived on the Llan myself for half of last year, and having seen his boat a few times in various locations, my guess is that he moves back and forth between a number of his favourite mooring locations, spending two weeks in each and then cruising about 5 miles or so to the next spot, staying two weeks and then carrying on to the next one, and so on. 

I would guess he has a string of about 8 or so spots that he mostly moors in, each of which has a decent car parking spot not too far away. And when he gets to the furthest spot, he then just turns around and starts the same pattern the other way, heading back to the starting location. 

If you can find a series of mooring spots a few miles apart like this, each of which would allow you to reach your work premises (or your car), you could possibly consider CCing, and thus save the money that would have been spent on a permanent mooring.  

I can imagine the logistics would be a challenge at times. It's a pain that you only get to move the boat after work, or at weekends (or on leave days), so your opportunities to fill up the water tank and empty toilets etc would mostly be limited to weekends or late evenings (no problem in the summer, of course). 

And in the winter it can get a bit hardcore at times with towpaths that are covered in three inches of mud. Dan Brown himself talks about how he's had a number of falls from his bike whilst cycling on icy roads to get to work, or to the shops. 

Anyway, its worth mentioning the idea, but to be fair it might not suit you for understandable reasons. 

I also agree with those saying 36ft might be too small to be comfortable, but a lot depends on whether you feel ok in smaller spaces for long periods of time.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Tony1

[MtB]

There's an Ultracom LPG combi on ebay for £150 at the moment....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154872955973?hash=item240f25c445%3Ag%3An5wAAOSw9v5iG8P9&LH_ItemCondition=4

 

 

[Tony1]

14 hours ago, MtB said:

There's an Ultracom LPG combi on ebay for £150 at the moment....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154872955973?hash=item240f25c445%3Ag%3An5wAAOSw9v5iG8P9&LH_ItemCondition=4

 

 

 

I've often wondered about the benefits of these things, e.g. instant hot water without running the engine. 

But at the moment, with future gas supplies/prices far from certain, I'd be worried about how difficult it might get to obtain propane bottles by the end of this year and beyond.

At the moment I only use one 13kg bottle every 4 months or so (it was every 2 months when I used a gas hob kettle). I have one full bottle, plus another nearly full, so in theory I'm covered for 8 months. But even that situation leaves me a bit uneasy.

Every supplier to whom I've mentioned the issue of gas supply over the last 18 months has talked about there being a shortage of gas (and yet most had a few bottles available).

So with the situation now set to get much worse, I'm already pondering what emergency measures might be possible for cooking (hot water is covered- that can be obtained by running the engine or via a big pan on the stove).

I've been wondering how feasible it would be to cook using a camping gaz cooker, for example - unless the little camping gaz bottles also run short in supply, or they only last a few days, say.

I might consider buying a microwave, a toaster, and maybe even an electric hob, if it becomes very difficult to source propane bottles or camping gaz.  

It'll double or treble electricity use, but at least I have the batteries, the solar and a charging system that can cope, for a while.

 

ETA- I'd have to watch it with the inverter though. Its 2000w so it can handle a 1000 watt load for a while, but I dont really like overstressing it. 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Tony1

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I've often wondered about the benefits of these things, e.g. instant hot water without running the engine. 

But at the moment, with future gas supplies/prices far from certain, I'd be worried about how difficult it might get to obtain propane bottles by the end of this year and beyond.

At the moment I only use one 13kg bottle every 4 months or so (it was every 2 months when I used a gas hob kettle). I have one full bottle, plus another nearly full, so in theory I'm covered for 8 months. But even that situation leaves me a bit uneasy.

Every supplier to whom I've mentioned the issue of gas supply over the last 18 months has talked about there being a shortage of gas (and yet most had a few bottles available).

So with the situation now set to get much worse, I'm already pondering what emergency measures might be possible for cooking (hot water is covered- that can be obtained by running the engine or via a big pan on the stove).

I've been wondering how feasible it would be to cook using a camping gaz cooker, for example - unless the little camping gaz bottles also run short in supply, or they only last a few days, say.

I might consider buying a microwave, a toaster, and maybe even an electric hob, if it becomes very difficult to source propane bottles or camping gaz.  

It'll double or treble electricity use, but at least I have the batteries, the solar and a charging system that can cope, for a while.

 

ETA- I'd have to watch it with the inverter though. Its 2000w so it can handle a 1000 watt load for a while, but I dont really like overstressing it. 

 

 

I have an old Paloma and its perfect for me.

But yes, it’s crossed my mind too regards the possible difficulty of getting replacements in the future.

I think it was August last year when there was a shortage and I spent the best part of a day driving around the Halifax area trying to get some gas.

Luckily I had a car, if I’d been out cruising I would have been stuffed.

I keep 3 x 6kg in a small gas locker. 
Works out more expensive than the larger bottles

But a 6kg bottle lasts me 6 weeks at least, so I just accept it.

If I were getting through gas much quicker then I’d have to rethink my set up.

Without gas my stove would be the only way to cook or heat water.

Not impossible, but would be a pain in the summer having to keep the stove going.

Winter’s not too bad, I keep a kettle on the stove day and night and always have some hot water.

 

But we’re not quite there yet, so I’ll bury my head til then👍

 

 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I've often wondered about the benefits of these things, e.g. instant hot water without running the engine. 

But at the moment, with future gas supplies/prices far from certain, I'd be worried about how difficult it might get to obtain propane bottles by the end of this year and beyond.

At the moment I only use one 13kg bottle every 4 months or so (it was every 2 months when I used a gas hob kettle). I have one full bottle, plus another nearly full, so in theory I'm covered for 8 months. But even that situation leaves me a bit uneasy.

Every supplier to whom I've mentioned the issue of gas supply over the last 18 months has talked about there being a shortage of gas (and yet most had a few bottles available).

So with the situation now set to get much worse, I'm already pondering what emergency measures might be possible for cooking (hot water is covered- that can be obtained by running the engine or via a big pan on the stove).

I've been wondering how feasible it would be to cook using a camping gaz cooker, for example - unless the little camping gaz bottles also run short in supply, or they only last a few days, say.

I might consider buying a microwave, a toaster, and maybe even an electric hob, if it becomes very difficult to source propane bottles or camping gaz.  

It'll double or treble electricity use, but at least I have the batteries, the solar and a charging system that can cope, for a while.

 

ETA- I'd have to watch it with the inverter though. Its 2000w so it can handle a 1000 watt load for a while, but I dont really like overstressing it. 

 

 

 

 

Lol, I posted that in error. I should have posted it on another discussion forum where someone was looking for a s/h LPG combi to fit for a poor Little Old Lady with no dosh! 

 

I'll leave it up though as it has provoked some discussion....

 

 

 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

I have an old Paloma and its perfect for me.

But yes, it’s crossed my mind too regards the possible difficulty of getting replacements in the future.

I think it was August last year when there was a shortage and I spent the best part of a day driving around the Halifax area trying to get some gas.

Luckily I had a car, if I’d been out cruising I would have been stuffed.

I keep 3 x 6kg in a small gas locker. 
Works out more expensive than the larger bottles

But a 6kg bottle lasts me 6 weeks at least, so I just accept it.

If I were getting through gas much quicker then I’d have to rethink my set up.

Without gas my stove would be the only way to cook or heat water.

Not impossible, but would be a pain in the summer having to keep the stove going.

Winter’s not too bad, I keep a kettle on the stove day and night and always have some hot water.

 

But we’re not quite there yet, so I’ll bury my head til then👍

 

 

 

Its quite possible the sellers will continue with their warnings about shortages but nothing will change, except maybe a price hike. Fingers crossed.

 

But there's no way I'm cooking on the stove in summer- no chance. 

One of the reasons I got an electric kettle was that in June and July, I dreaded making a brew because lighting even one gas hob on for 5-7 minutes just added to the unpleasant heat inside the boat- I could feel the increase in temperature. 

 

The idea of having the stove lit in June and July is impossible to contemplate, for me personally. As it was, I was often shirtless during the day whilst inside the boat, and even then I sweated almost constantly at times, despite using two or three decent sized fans.

But I will have loads of excess solar power at that time, so it makes sense to look at using that if things get difficult with gas supplies.