CRT Spotters

[Captain Pegg]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Had the same recently at Hinkley, first time on the way up to Snarestone, second time on the way back. Two mooring locations a couple of hundred yards apart and with the boat facing in the opposite direction the second time. But the CRT spotting system doesn't record those details.But an emailed explanation back to CRT was accepted without question.

 

Just because a boat has visibly been moved doesn't necessarily mean it becomes compliant. If the boat in question had been cruised, winded, returned to the same place, and moored up 200m from the spot it had vacated all on the same day then is it not still continuously in the same place as far the legal requirement is concerned? You may know that wasn't what happened but CRT wouldn't.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Captain Pegg

[Mike Todd]

39 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Why? = Because the marina can and does wish to protect the privacy of the owners of the many boats in the marina . 

As an example there are half a dozen boats within a stones throw of my mooring that never leave the marina and that is perfectly fine. I usually have a  license 6 or 7 months of the year and that is fine also . No license = stay in the marina . No rules bent or broken.

 

I have no doubt some boats go out without a license . C&RT are welcome to catch them at it.

I do not do so .

 

There is nothing  fishy about it nor are any rules being bent. Maybe you should do some research like you usually suggest to other  people .

 

 

 

But surely going out without a licence is breaking the rules?

[MartynG]

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

But surely going out without a licence is breaking the rules?

Correct 

I don't do it

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MartynG said:

  but I also think people have a right to privacy when off C&RT water. 

Accepting  it has been pointed out most marinas can do nothing about it . 

 

 

Most marinas aren't off CRT waters which is why they can't do anything about it and any boats in those (CRT Water) marinas should be licenced even if they never leave the pontoon

[MartynG]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Most marinas aren't off CRT waters which is why they can't do anything about it and any boats in those (CRT Water) marinas should be licenced even if they never leave the pontoon

Correct.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

But surely going out without a licence is breaking the rules?

Only if you are on CRT waters, or a marina covered by a NAA. It's perfectly legal for a boat to be unlicenced in a non NAA marina (if the marina owner permits).

[Quattrodave]

20 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

If C&RT wish to challenge the honesty of its customers they are free to do so. But C&RT are not free to enter private property without permission. Nor is  a marina free to reveal any data about its customers to  C&RT without prior consent from the customer. 

I am surprised any marina allows C&RT to enter its property for the purposes of checking up on whether  a boat is present or absent or for any other reason connected with boat licensing. 

 

My marina did (ok EA not CaRT) and caused a sh1t storm of a problem... They managed to mix up details, 2 boats with same name in the marina, 3 months many many emails and phone calls to rectify the cock up.  When approached the marina of course denied it, nfortunately its the only place that could have handed out all the information...

[Midnight]

We get a few 'unknown' boats on C&RTs list each year but I can't see any benefit in claiming to have a home mooring when you haven't. We also try to maintain a good relationship with local managers so even if we could we wouldn't prevent the checkers having access.

[MartynG]

7 minutes ago, Midnight said:

We get a few 'unknown' boats on C&RTs list each year but I can't see any benefit in claiming to have a home mooring when you haven't. 

Possibly the C&RT records are out of date. 

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

Possibly the C&RT records are out of date. 

The point of contacting us each year is to update their records

[matty40s]

15 minutes ago, Midnight said:

The point of contacting us each year is to update their records

The marina here hasnt got a problem with CRT visiting and doing their job, it has also never had a problem with uninvited people wandering around as folks are quick to spot and jump on them.

If CRT visit, unannounced and just invite themselves without signing in or even letting one of the 2 offices on site know, then they will get pulled up like any other trespassers would.

[furnessvale]

On 24/12/2021 at 14:39, IanD said:

 -- see Alan's note about boats just happening to leave the marina for the one day a year when the checkers come visiting... 😉

I presume there is nothing to stop CRT from putting a spotter on the towpath opposite the marina entrance when they intend doing a check?

[matty40s]

32 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

I presume there is nothing to stop CRT from putting a spotter on the towpath opposite the marina entrance when they intend doing a check?

You are assuming joined up thinking here.

..

[droshky]

Haven’t seen this aspect mentioned, you probably all know this, but anyway…

 

A few years ago we wintered on an offside farm mooring. After a month or two, we got a crt letter advising of water charges payable to them in addition to our rent to the farmer. In the end we accepted it and coughed up. So they must have active spotters off season on quiet stretches of the Middlewich Branch, unless of course we’d somehow told them and then forgotten! Or maybe the farmer….

[Jim Riley]

Boats on the Trent in a non NAA marina only need a vat free river registration certificate to go out on the river, Shirley.

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Boats on the Trent in a non NAA marina only need a vat free river registration certificate to go out on the river, Shirley.

 

Yes - but try telling C&RT is is Zero rated for VAT (Not VAT Free)

Even tho' C&RT know that it is Zero VAT (and have been guided by the EA) they still charge VAT @20% on a PBC

 

Short extract (redacted) from an internal C&RT Email :

 

 

 

[MartynG]

3 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

Boats on the Trent in a non NAA marina only need a vat free river registration certificate to go out on the river, Shirley.

That's correct.  Except C&RT call it a license

 

And 20% VAT is included in the price 

 

But the fee for a ''rivers only'' license is discounted compared to a ''canals and rivers'' licence

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, MartynG said:

But the fee for a ''rivers only'' license is discounted compared to a ''canals and rivers'' licence

 

Discounted by law at 60% of "Canal & River licence" for the same sized boat.

 

They are in error in calling it a licence and it has been pointed out to them a number of time, but they just 'throw a deaf one'.

 

A licence gives you formal permission to do something, that without the permission it would be unlawful to do, whilst a 'registration' is a statutorily imposed identification system and has nothing to do with a grant of permission to do anything.

 

Rivers have a legally given right of public navigation and hence a licence is not required.

 

A licence is subject to VAT at the standard rate (20%)

A registration certificate is subject to VAT at the Zero rate (0%)

Edited December 27, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[MartynG]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

Rivers have a legally given right of public navigation and hence a licence is not required.

 

Yes but you have to pay for a license as its the only option available option

Edited December 27, 2021 by MartynG

[Oddjob]

The CRT logs boats moving and going through locks and you can request a movement report from them which lists where your boat has been seen. So if you are a CC but only seen in one area they would know now what they do about it is another matter. I’ve had my number logged by log keepers lots of times for this reason. 
As to the boats with sheds type that stay in one location it’s very hard for the CRT to action and the local council don’t want the person made homeless as they then have to deal with them and not the CRT, so we just have to put up with these type of “I DON’T GIVE A SH*T” owners. 

Also checkers have to be careful they don’t run into a nut job that does them serous harm. So no more. 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Oddjob said:

The CRT logs boats moving and going through locks and you can request a movement report from them which lists where your boat has been seen. So if you are a CC but only seen in one area they would know now what they do about it is another matter. I’ve had my number logged by log keepers lots of times for this reason. 

The logging of boats going through locks is NOT linked to the licence checkers database. It doesnt appear on your annual movement list if you request it.

Even entering CRT waters from tidal where you may be asked to purchase a licence such as Brentford,  Cromwell and Keadby do not appear on your movements list.

Edited December 28, 2021 by matty40s

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, matty40s said:

The logging of boats going through locks is NOT linked to the licence checkers database. It doesnt appear on your annual movement list if you request it.

Even entering CRT waters from tidal where you may be asked to purchase a licence such as Brentford,  Cromwell and Keadby do not appear on your movements list.

Or the lift or tunnel which you book

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Or the lift or tunnel which you book

 

C&RT, a company with real joined up thinking with IT to support such thinking ?

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, Oddjob said:

 

Also checkers have to be careful they don’t run into a nut job that does them serous harm. So no more. 

Which is why the checkers don't engage with boaters, just note the reg. number and location.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Which is why the checkers don't engage with boaters, just note the reg. number and location.

 

Also why their job title (AIUI) is "Data Logger" or something along those lines, rather than "license Checker".