Jump to content

Water Tank Size & Location


TomIre

Featured Posts

9 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Giant water tank?  Bowthruster?  Gas Free? Incinerator Toilet?  First boat?

 

Does anyone have any popcorn spare?

 

I'll tell you what I know - my boat has an integral water tank, which was last painted 11 years ago, and not very well.  It needs doing but every year I put it off!  I have no idea how much water it holds, maybe 100 gallons?  When it runs out I fill it back up.  When I've used half a tank I start being more careful about use and can mange a shower with about 1 gallon of water if I really need to.  Space is at a premium on a boat, so you're weighing up taking up more space to store water, against being more frugal with its use.  Also, a really big water tank will mess with the weight distribution of your boat.

 

I don't have a bow thruster, but when it's a bit windy out, I'm secretly slightly jealous of those who do.

 

I wouldn't touch an incinerator toilet, for the simple reason that getting water and emptying elsans is less of a constant battle than making electricity.

Ditto for a gas free boat. 

 

The only logical options you have to be gas free for cooking are:

 

1.  Diesel cooker - unreliable.

2. Cooking on a solid fuel stove - you'll melt in summer.

3.  Running an electric cooker off a generator - so you'll be putting up with a lot of genny noise and pissing off other boaters.  Especially if you want to boil a kettle before 8am or after 8pm.  It's also expensive, and needlessly complicated.  There's a reason why 99% of boaters use gas, and the only ones who don't are mainly new to the game.

4. Eating out, take-aways and pubs

 

 

I've added a bit to your post, amongst all the daft questions that gongoozelers ask, one of the best was "it must really nice living on a boat and going to the pub for a meal every night?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Giant water tank?  Bowthruster?  Gas Free? Incinerator Toilet?  First boat?

 

Does anyone have any popcorn spare?

 

I'll tell you what I know - my boat has an integral water tank, which was last painted 11 years ago, and not very well.  It needs doing but every year I put it off!  I have no idea how much water it holds, maybe 100 gallons?  When it runs out I fill it back up.  When I've used half a tank I start being more careful about use and can mange a shower with about 1 gallon of water if I really need to.  Space is at a premium on a boat, so you're weighing up taking up more space to store water, against being more frugal with its use.  Also, a really big water tank will mess with the weight distribution of your boat.

 

I don't have a bow thruster, but when it's a bit windy out, I'm secretly slightly jealous of those who do.

 

I wouldn't touch an incinerator toilet, for the simple reason that getting water and emptying elsans is less of a constant battle than making electricity.

Ditto for a gas free boat. 

 

The only logical options you have to be gas free for cooking are:

 

1.  Diesel cooker - unreliable.

2. Cooking on a solid fuel stove - you'll melt in summer.

3.  Running an electric cooker off a generator - so you'll be putting up with a lot of genny noise and pissing off other boaters.  Especially if you want to boil a kettle before 8am or after 8pm.  It's also expensive, and needlessly complicated.  There's a reason why 99% of boaters use gas, and the only ones who don't are mainly new to the game.

 

 

Why do you think a boat with a decent sized battery bank and an inverter needs to run the generator to boil a kettle? The energy required is tiny even if the power is high, but a modern inverter has no problem with this...

 

I'm not suggesting all-electric just for the sake of it (gas-free diesel boat) is a good idea, it does cost a fortune and the power has to come from somewhere, gas cooking makes more sense.

 

The picture changes for electric/series hybrid boats where the electrics are all in place anyway for propulsion, but there are few of these around and the cost makes a gas-free diesel boat look like chickenfeed...

Edited by IanD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Why do you think a boat with a decent sized battery bank and an inverter needs to run the generator to boil a kettle?

 

I'm not suggesting all-electric just for the sake of it (gas-free diesel boat) is a good idea, it does cost a fortune and the power has to come from somewhere. The picture changes for electric/series hybrid boats where the electrics are all in place anyway for propulsion, but there are few of these around and the cost makes a gas-free diesel boat look like chickenfeed...

Oh it can be done off your batteries.  It's just a bad idea.  Especially with a newbie, I'd predict a very expensive charging, inverting and battery set up, with ruined batteries in the first couple of months.

 

Successful liveaboarding requires a change of mindset.  Part of that mindset involves minimsing consumption of things.  Electric kettles and electric cooking don't fit well into liveaboarding, especially when there's a much more suitable alternative.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

We manage about 4 days for two of us. Maybe we drink too much tea or have too many showers

The water tank in our previous narrowboat was the bow locker. Epoxy coated. In answer to a previous post it never froze in 14 years. That would last us 3 to 4 days showering everyday and full use of a washing machine. If we were unable to fill the tank we stopped using the washer which almost double the time to empty.

We expected our new widebeam to have a larger tank capacity. It is more conventional under the well deck aft of the bow thruster but, despite on paper having more capacity than the narrowboat one, only lasts the same time. I put that down to the much larger washing machine not being run at full load.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

Oh it can be done off your batteries.  It's just a bad idea.  Especially with a newbie, I'd predict a very expensive charging, inverting and battery set up, with ruined batteries in the first couple of months.

 

Successful liveaboarding requires a change of mindset.  Part of that mindset involves minimsing consumption of things.  Electric kettles and electric cooking don't fit well into liveaboarding, especially when there's a much more suitable alternative.

 

I don't think either of those things is necessarily true if the boat has adequate lithium batteries and a well designed professionally installed charging and control system. If the OP is going lead acid batteries then I agree.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, pearley said:

The water tank in our previous narrowboat was the bow locker. Epoxy coated. In answer to a previous post it never froze in 14 years. That would last us 3 to 4 days showering everyday and full use of a washing machine. If we were unable to fill the tank we stopped using the washer which almost double the time to empty.

We expected our new widebeam to have a larger tank capacity. It is more conventional under the well deck aft of the bow thruster but, despite on paper having more capacity than the narrowboat one, only lasts the same time. I put that down to the much larger washing machine not being run at full load.

I'm on my own and expect to get at least 2 weeks from a full tank, 3 if I'm careful, 4 if I'm REALLY careful.  I typically do one load of washing per week, on a setting which minimises water.  I shower most days but my showers are fast and I have a water saving nozzle.  I aim for 1 washing up bowl of water per day.  I also do lots of other little things like turning taps off when brushing my teeth. 

 

If I were the OP and was seriously worried about running out of water, I'd be more inclined to investgate a top quality filtration system for canal water.  It's been done successfully and would mean you'd only need a little tank.

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think either of those things is necessarily true if the boat has adequate lithium batteries and a well designed professionally installed charging and control system. If the OP is going lead acid batteries then I agree.

You may be right with lithium, but that adds on even more cost, to tackle a problem which doesn't actually exist.  Just get a gas hob, and problem solved.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dmr said:

If you want a big tank then an epoxy painted integral tank is the way to go.

You can get right inside a big tank to do any maintenance so that removes their main disadvantage.

They don't freeze in winter (remember that -15 spell about 11 years ago????)

My biggest concern with most stainless tanks is that it's a nightmare to get them out so you cant maintain the steelwork behind them, and in many cases hidden condensation can form there.

1000litres does change the trim of a boat as it empties but its not a disaster, at least not on a 70 foot boat.

I have a large plastic water tank which I know has trapped water beneath it. 
And yes it’s going to be a nightmare to remove.

It’s a job I was going to do this week but sod it it can wait til the summer.

 

But I like my plastic tank with no rust and if some thought for it’s removal had been applied when installing it then it’d be perfect for me. 
When careful I can last the best part of a month before needing to refill. 
 

The tank sits on woodchip(?) which sits on layers of roofing felt, a great way to collect/trap water. 
What an idea that was 😕.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Wash your mouth out.

No body admits to having a 'sissy-button', you will become unable to steer the boat without it and the day it fails you will be in mess - learn to steer your boat correctly and you'll manage pefectly well without one.

 

They make a teribble noise, they sound like a swarm of bees coming down the canal and you just see the boat zig-zagging from side to side.

T'aint right, T'aint normal. T'aint required.

 

What sort of toilet are you planning ?

A bow thruster is just an additional thing to go wrong and maintain at an additional expense.

Another weed hatch to go down. 
Probably more hassle than learning to steer.  

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm on my own and expect to get at least 2 weeks from a full tank, 3 if I'm careful, 4 if I'm REALLY careful.  I typically do one load of washing per week, on a setting which minimises water.  I shower most days but my showers are fast and I have a water saving nozzle.  I aim for 1 washing up bowl of water per day.  I also do lots of other little things like turning taps off when brushing my teeth. 

 

We both shower everyday (and have water saving shower head) and don't wash, etc under running taps but I won't say my wife is obsessive about clothes washing but,.....

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Idle Days said:

We have an integral 200 gallon water tank and a bow thruster.  I wouldn't want to have to cope with less water capacity and consider the bow thruster to be an essential accessory. 

Mind sharing your "arrangement" with me?  Stainless tank under well deck or something else?

I agree 200 gallons or more. Thanks. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Water is quite readily available on the UK system. We have approx 45 gallons on our boat in France where water can be hard to find. We could do with more but we have only got a small boat. Thing is, what do you use the water for? Drinking, shower I suppose and maybe the loo, cooking etc. Our 45 galls lasts a week but if we are getting low then a bucket of canal water will flush the loo, most shops sell bottled water for drinking and to be honest although 45 galls is really not enough we have never run right out in 10 years. You can only have unlimited gas, water, electricity TV and a flush and forget loo in a house and to try and achieve the same in a boat will be a struggle that cannot be won.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, IanD said:

Maybe, though some people have reported less. One in the bow (not a nice rectangular one) has a lot of nooks and crannies which make it harder to stop subsequent corrosion under the epoxy.

 

That's not theoretical speculation, that's coming from someone who has built several hundred hulls and used to use epoxied integral tanks, but hasn't for the last 5 years -- especially in the bows -- for the reasons I gave... 😉

These tanks were blasted back to "s" whatever it was and then airless spray 2pk with some paint specific for potable water.   Some of the older ones were just blacked, I was out there 20 years and never heard of one leaking.  I think it was Dave who said large tank with large access.

Edited by ditchcrawler
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

These tanks were blasted back to "s" whatever it was and then airless spray 2pk with some paint specific for potable water.   Some of the older ones were just blacked, I was out there 20 years and never heard of one leaking.  I think it was Dave who said large tank with large access.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm simply reporting what the (very well respected) shell builder/boatbuilder told me... 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

A bow thruster is just an additional thing to go wrong and maintain at an additional expense.

Another weed hatch to go down. 
Probably more hassle than learning to steer.  

Just like everything else on the boat, water pumps, batteries, heating, gas cookers, alternators, If you want one, have one. 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Bee said:

Water is quite readily available on the UK system. We have approx 45 gallons on our boat in France where water can be hard to find. We could do with more but we have only got a small boat. Thing is, what do you use the water for? Drinking, shower I suppose and maybe the loo, cooking etc. Our 45 galls lasts a week but if we are getting low then a bucket of canal water will flush the loo, most shops sell bottled water for drinking and to be honest although 45 galls is really not enough we have never run right out in 10 years. You can only have unlimited gas, water, electricity TV and a flush and forget loo in a house and to try and achieve the same in a boat will be a struggle that cannot be won.

 

Nobody is saying that all the above can be unlimited on a boat, but equally they don't have to be as limited as your requirements -- there's a whole spectrum of what people want, some obviously want more comforts than you do... 😉

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just like everything else on the boat, water pumps, batteries, heating, gas cookers, alternators, If you want one, have one. 

Different strokes for different folks... 😉

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, IanD said:

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm simply reporting what the (very well respected) shell builder/boatbuilder told me... 😉

O not at all, Remember we had department who did nothing but corrosion, employed paint inspectors to ensure the conditions were right, the blasting was to spec. Checked paint mixing and wet film thickness.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

O not at all, Remember we had department who did nothing but corrosion, employed paint inspectors to ensure the conditions were right, the blasting was to spec. Checked paint mixing and wet film thickness.

I'm sure you did. How effective that would be in a bow tank where the hull is stitched together out of multiple curved pieces with internal welds and bracing pieces holding it all together -- and conspiring to hide bits of scale/rust/corrosion away from the prying eye of the blaster, with one guy trying to do all this in a cramped tapered box and mark his own homework -- is another issue entirely... 😉

 

I'm sure many people have epoxy-coated bow tanks like this, how many of them have hidden (or visible) corrosion (after how many years?) isn't known. My builder strongly advised against this because based on experience he was not happy with this as a solution, he prefers one where he knows there won't be any problems like this over the lifetime of the boat. Other opinions are available...

Edited by IanD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

I'm sure you did. How effective that would be in a bow tank where the hull is stitched together out of multiple curved pieces with internal welds and bracing pieces holding it all together -- and conspiring to hide bits of scale/rust/corrosion away from the prying eye of the blaster, with one guy trying to do all this in a cramped tapered box and mark his own homework -- is another issue entirely... 😉

 

I'm sure many people have epoxy-coated bow tanks like this, how many of them have hidden (or visible) corrosion (after how many years?) isn't known. My builder strongly advised against this because based on experience he was not happy with this as a solution, he prefers one where he knows there won't be any problems like this over the lifetime of the boat. Other opinions are available...

I wouldn't disagree with that, it has to be done properly and most don't even have a decent access. It needs engineering from the planning point, not just the way they always did it like so many things on Narrowboats. BTW I have a stainless tank

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, TomIre said:

Hi All,

We're in the design stage of a new build narrowboat with our builder! Exciting times.

They're specifying a 125 gallon/470 liter tank. We've asked for one quite a bit larger. 600 to 1000 liters. We plan to CC and it seems to me that water capacity is going to be the limiting factor for staying out.
They're struggling with finding a place for that larger tank.
So, those of you who have a larger tank - where is it?
My only thought at this point is to raise the well deck by a few inches to accommodate it. But, I think that might possibly make entry through the bow doors an issue.
Any other thoughts?


If you are CCing you'll pass a water point every other day at worst, so water supply shouldn't really be an issue. 

If you don't want to consider an integral tank due to the maintenance issues mentioned above, then you could explore the possibility of a second plastic tank under a bed or dinette. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an integral 1000 litre tank on my boat, which has a rear gas locker so it takes up the entire front under the deck, and there's no well deck at all.

 

It was one of the main criteria in buying it - without being particularly careful on water, it'll last two weeks with around 80 litres left. That's two of us showering every other day and running the washing machine twice.


It's a 30 year old boat and it was painted inside 20 years ago. I've had my inspection camera in there and there's some rust where a 4" high plate was welded onto the bow and the heat damaged the paint on the inside, but that's it. Due a repaint I think, luckily it's got a massive hatch in it. I've seen boats with a hatch fit only for a rabbit...

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We had an integral bow locker tank (680lts) + same under diner (plastic ones), full time aboard lasted two of us for 2 weeks of generous consumption included a flush toilet, we could double that at a push.

Bow tank easily accessed via hatch for annual drying out and a patch or 3 of blacking and a couple of days drying, done from top, no need to get inside, whilst doing this we used tank under diner. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, booke23 said:


If you are CCing you'll pass a water point every other day at worst, so water supply shouldn't really be an issue. 
 

 

This is an interesting point. Generally speaking I probably only travel on one day per week, so I find I dont pass water points quite that often.

 

It also depends where you are- on the Llan they seem a bit more spaced out- there is one at Grindley Brook, for example, and the next one is Bettisfield.

You can do that distance easily in day if you want to (and especially with a crew for the lift bridges), but what if you dont?

I prefer to spend a week or so in each nice location- and sometimes you have to spend extra days moored because of work, health, family, or other commitments/appointments. 

 

Some people will want to spend a week or so near Whitchurch, say. And then if you go down to Whixall Junction you might want to moor there for a few days, if you like peace and quiet. If you then have an appointment that means you need to bike it back up to Whitchurch, you are past 10 days without filling up- unless you spend half a day getting to the water point and back- and sometimes a lot more, if there is a lock flight in the way.  

 

There is also the issue that for 8 months of the year, the water points can be quite busy, and you might be waiting around for 45 mins for your turn to fill up, unless you get there early morning or late afternoon. 

 

For example, the very considerate hire boaters I came across at Bettisfield had moored right in the middle of the mooring space (that could fit two boats) whilst they had lunch.

There was  no sign of a water hose near their boat. And this was in June, on one of the busiest canals on the system.

 

They looked absolutely disgusted when I knocked on the window and asked if they could move up by 20 feet or so, so that I could tie up on the end of the mooring and fill up. 

Needless to say, they went on a go-slow, and nobody emerged from the boat for a good 5-10 mins.

So, in an equally unhelpful mood, I stood a few feet away holding my centre line and looking into their window for most of the time I waited. 

 

But all CCers will have a slightly different approach.

I'm sure the speedier boaters will have no problem filling up with water every few days, but those who travel more slowly might find it a pain. 

 

So a bigger tank might mean you are not quite so dependent on visiting water points so often, and you can maybe skip one if its mad busy. And during the time in between fills, you have more water to play with, which makes for a slightly more luxurious lifestyle- which some folks might think is a priority. 

 

Sadly my tank is a modest 400-450 litres, so I do have to be careful with water most of the time.

 

Horses for courses, as they say.

 

Edited by Tony1
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know of three boats with stainless tanks which were thin and flexed and split welds. Replacement required the front deck to be removed to replace it. An epoxied integral tank may require treating occasionally, but is a lot less hassle than bodywork modifications to replace a tank or attend to condensation hull corrosion beneath/around a separate tank. 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.