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Engine conversion /Land Rover 200/300tdi


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Hi I am new to this ūüėā

 

I have a 12ft x57ft widebeam with a bsd333 engine in and a hydraulic prm gearbox, the engine is loud and shakey.  I was thinking of converting it. And to possibly start building a conversion now ready for next year. 
I am pretty good at making things an working on engines so I won’t struggle to much. 
 

but I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted a land rover 200/300tdi engine it there boat.? These engines are bulletproof and are very reliable. 
Any advice would be brilliant.

 

Thanks Darren

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Will the proposed new engine need electronic control, and exhaust filters, etc?

Will it need to be rechipped to give the torque characteristics required?

 

Bod

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33 minutes ago, Dazo1984 said:

Hi I am new to this ūüėā

 

I have a 12ft x57ft widebeam with a bsd333 engine in and a hydraulic prm gearbox, the engine is loud and shakey.  I was thinking of converting it. And to possibly start building a conversion now ready for next year. 
I am pretty good at making things an working on engines so I won’t struggle to much. 
 

but I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted a land rover 200/300tdi engine it there boat.? These engines are bulletproof and are very reliable. 
Any advice would be brilliant.

 

Thanks Darren

 

You are proposing to replace an engine that is noisy and shaky?

 

With a noisy loud shaky Land Rover product.

 

Yours must be seriously bad.

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6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

They have a turbo yes. I think the i was for injection though but its ages since Ive owned one so I may be wrong.

And a quick google says the d was for 'direct'.

 

Trouble is most canal boat engines spend most of their life running at low revs so the turbo might hardly ever kick in, and a turbo diesel without the turbo running is in a non optimum regime,especially a di, it might get very sooty and dirty, and all the complexity of a turbo is sort of wasted.

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If I was marinising an engine I would start with the gearbox end. Presumably you will be using the old gearbox, you really need to find out whether a bell housing is actually available, Lancing Marine is a good place to start, You will also need a different water cooled manifold than the LR engine and a water pump as well as a lot of other bits and pieces. Personally I would try to improve what you already have or find out why it is rough and noisy, What you have is a hefty diesel running in a steel box with possibly unlined sides  and ends and maybe badly aligned or fixed and with some sort of exhaust that is less than brilliant. That's what most of us have and sound deadening might be a better and cheaper way to start

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In my experience of converting vehicle engines for boats is that most modern engines are direct injection so tend to be loud and they have a habit of having nasty resonances just about the speed you would normally want for a canal boat ie just past tickover. Unless you have access to machining facilities any one off conversion is going to be difficult and could make the boat difficult to sell on. Most car engines don't have an SAE flange on the gearbox so you would also need to make a bellhousing or adapt a vehicle gearbox.

The best quiet engines are kubota, the parts are widely available and can be found secondhand. Otherwise for a larger slow running engine look at John Deere or isuzu - they are often fitted in plant and generators and can be easily adapted for marine use. A good place to start is emergency fire pumps as they often come with heat exchangers and other stuff which can be used in a marinisation.

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I would comment that TDI engines were usually designed to run in cars and light vans and "feel" as much like petrol engines as possible.

 

Those are exactly the characteristics you don't want in a boat. Naturally aspirated and slow revving is what you want, which is why there are so many "BMC", Kubota and other plant engines around. 

 

 

 

 

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So it was designed to provide low speed torque because it's an accomplished off road vehicle. The turbo started boosting early so its possible that the the engine will produce power at the right time?

Now Finness were fitting turbo diesels into their big boats, the reason they are better and cleaner than the old non turbo engines, as a plus they were more economical. 

Now most of their boats are electric so it's not an issue for them. 

I would have a go  as for the water cooled manifold why? My first boat had a Kubota in it no water cooled manifold on it or from new.

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I'd question the judgement of anyone claiming landrover products as 'reliable' and 'bullet proof' You can rely on them to breakdown usually because something cheap and nasty let's go 

I say this as someone who has owned a variety of discos and defenders....

 

I'd think the tdi engines would be a bit too powerful and high revving  compared to the usual canal engines. 113 bhp at 4250 rpm or something like that for the 200 tdi

Edited by jonathanA
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7 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I'd question the judgement of anyone claiming landrover products as 'reliable' and 'bullet proof' You can rely on them to breakdown usually because something cheap and nasty let's go 

I say this as someone who has owned a variety of discos and defenders....

 

I'd think the tdi engines would be a bit too powerful and high revving  compared to the usual canal engines. 113 bhp at 4250 rpm or something like that for the 200 tdi

57 x 12 so 70 ponys would be about normal for it on tidal rivers so I reckon the engine is in with a shout? But they are noisy 

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4 hours ago, Dazo1984 said:

Hi I am new to this ūüėā

 

I have a 12ft x57ft widebeam with a bsd333 engine in and a hydraulic prm gearbox, the engine is loud and shakey.  I was thinking of converting it. And to possibly start building a conversion now ready for next year. 
I am pretty good at making things an working on engines so I won’t struggle to much. 
 

but I was wondering if anyone has ever fitted a land rover 200/300tdi engine it there boat.? These engines are bulletproof and are very reliable. 
Any advice would be brilliant.

 

Thanks Darren

 

 

I just wonder if anyone has submitted an LR engine for testing / approval under the RCD / RCR emission regulations ?

Legally, changing the engine requires a boat built under the RCD to be submitted to a PCA (Post Construction Assessment) for compliance checks.

 

Only engines that have been certified can be fitted (specifications involve both exhaust emissions and noise levels)

 

A revision to the regulations was introduced in 2018 which has severly affected the possibility of 'adapting' engines :

 

Important update on marinised engines (britishmarine.co.uk)

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I just wonder if anyone has submitted an LR engine for testing / approval under the RCD / RCR emission regulations ?

Legally, changing the engine requires a boat built under the RCD to be submitted to a PCA (Post Construction Assessment) for compliance checks.

 

Only engines that have been certified can be fitted (specifications involve both exhaust emissions and noise levels)

 

A revision to the regulations was introduced in 2018 which has severly affected the possibility of 'adapting' engines :

 

Important update on marinised engines (britishmarine.co.uk)

Maybe the boat isnt RCD registered

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I just wonder if anyone has submitted an LR engine for testing / approval under the RCD / RCR emission regulations ?

Legally, changing the engine requires a boat built under the RCD to be submitted to a PCA (Post Construction Assessment) for compliance checks.

 

Only engines that have been certified can be fitted (specifications involve both exhaust emissions and noise levels)

 

A revision to the regulations was introduced in 2018 which has severly affected the possibility of 'adapting' engines :

 

Important update on marinised engines (britishmarine.co.uk)

Unless it's an electric motor then you can just do it! According to Dave at the BSS office 

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Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe the boat isnt RCD registered

 

Hence me saying 

 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

.... requires a boat built under the RCD .....

 

Apart from 'vintage craft' I'd suggest that the growth of Fat-Boats in the 12 x 57 sort of size will more than likely have been built in the last 23 years.

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57 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I'd question the judgement of anyone claiming landrover products as 'reliable' and 'bullet proof' 

 

You know the Aussie joke: If you want to go out into the outback, take a Landrover.  If you want to come back take a Toyota!

 

 

 

Edited by TheBiscuits
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1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Unless it's an electric motor then you can just do it! According to Dave at the BSS office 


But whilst the BSS can comment on their own rules, the RCD / RCR actually states :

 

¬†‚ÄĚ ‚Ķ a conversion of a watercraft which changes the means of propulsion of the watercraft, involves a major engine modification, or alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive‚ÄĚ.

 

Changing from diesel to 'leccy' is a change in the means of propulsion, and I'm sure the RCD authorities would rather that a non-involved quango kept their nose out of it.

There is a list of authorised 'bodies' who can make RCD / RCR decisons and do the assessments and C&RT is not on that list.

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:


But whilst the BSS can comment on their own rules, the RCD / RCR actually states :

 

¬†‚ÄĚ ‚Ķ a conversion of a watercraft which changes the means of propulsion of the watercraft, involves a major engine modification, or alters the watercraft to such an extent that it may not meet the applicable essential safety and environmental requirements laid down in this Directive‚ÄĚ.

 

Changing from diesel to 'leccy' is a change in the means of propulsion, and I'm sure the RCD authorities would rather that a non-involved quango kept their nose out of it.

There is a list of authorised 'bodies' who can make RCD / RCR decisons and do the assessments and C&RT is not on that list.

 

Nobody cares Alan!

 

Except the odd brokerage, who will soon learn that having no boats to sell is not good business. 

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2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Nobody cares Alan!

 

Except the odd brokerage, who will soon learn that having no boats to sell is not good business. 

 

Looks like we have worn our engine out, 13000 hours. I am looking at various options for a replacement, different engine, like for like swap, or rebuild etc etc. Satisfying the RCD has not even crossed my mind, please don't tell anybody. ūüėÄ

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8 minutes ago, MtB said:

Nobody cares Alan!

 

I'm sure there are many who do not care, but are you confident that 'nobody cares'. Maybe a bit of exaggeration ?

 

It is better to make an informed decision based on fact than just believe a mate in the pub.

Should you decide not to comply then that is your decison, and I really don't care which way you 'go'.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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11 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

My 300tdi Discovery was a pig with numerous faults and issues. Notably the shredding misaligned timimg belt.

 

My td5 Disovery was a peach. I loved that car. Never put a foot wrong (though I know many state theirs did).

Whereas my 25 year old 300tdi defender which I've owned from almost new has got 300k miles on it and hasn't missed a beat. Any 300tdi out there is now 23 years old so the serious problems will have been fixed (timing belt issue was a recall for realigned pulleys with shoulders on them).

 

My mates Td5 however self destructed at less than 50k miles, and I wouldn't touch one with the pole from my roof !

 

In terms of the original post, we've been fitting 200/300tdi's to series landies for many years in the local clubs, because actually yes they are pretty good engines. But the usual trick is to remove the turbo and make it a Di, so that the drum brakes and knackered 50 year old gearboxes can cope, and then they are really noisy and unpleasant, although still better than the original 2.25 diesel.

 

The question I'd ask is do you really want to put a 20 plus year old lump in it when there are better engines designed for the purpose. Spares are still available, but for anything major the stock of knackered old discoveries that were donating their power plants is drying up, so you'll be starting to look at Britpart spares and they are made 'to a budget' in China...

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