More volockie hassle

[Mike Todd]

14 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Well I made it through 131 consecutive locks without assistance from a volockie and then on the 132nd - Bosley bottom lock - I encountered an excellent one.

 

Asked if I wanted assistance and when I said he was welcome to assist he worked with me up to lock 3 where he needed to drop back down to the bottom (on his bike) to chain lock 2 shut. Reappeared at lock 1 again and then later as I was pulling up to the landing for Royal Oak swing bridge he appeared down the towpath saying “Good timing, I can work it for you”. So an actual volswingie. Presumably on his way home.

 

As there was only him it meant I still had plenty to do so I didn’t have my enjoyment spoiled. He waited for confirmation that I was ready for paddles but quickly leant that once I’d got the boat set - I stayed on at the bottom two where other boaters helped - and my line around the middle bollard I was good for them to be deployed without undue fuss. I wound one paddle myself anyway. 

 

Half way up I asked if he was the only volockie on duty and he replied that there were three but the others rarely left the top lock. I only saw one other but at least he was friendly.

 

And that kind of sums the scheme up. For every really useful volockie there’s one that realistically serves no purpose.

I'm not sure why people find that that that scenario is a problem. So long as a vollie does not do actual harm then they can stand and watch, chat with mates, enjoy the view, just as much as anyone else. Volunteers are just that - they cannot add to any service commitment by CaRT since they can withdraw their labour at zero notice. That's volunteering (as other sectors, esp care sector) have  found to their cost. But when they are useful, great!

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

So long as a vollie does not do actual harm

 

And here you sum up one of the problems with Vollies. There is absolutely no guarantee they will do no harm. 

 

Chances are they will be fine, but if I sink my boat in a lock its my problem. If a vollie sinks my boat in a lock, its still my problem! 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

I'm not sure why people find that that that scenario is a problem. So long as a vollie does not do actual harm then they can stand and watch, chat with mates, enjoy the view, just as much as anyone else. Volunteers are just that - they cannot add to any service commitment by CaRT since they can withdraw their labour at zero notice. That's volunteering (as other sectors, esp care sector) have  found to their cost. But when they are useful, great!

Any citizen can do that of their own free will. There’s considerable cost involved in the training, administration and equipping volunteer lock keepers.

 

Every other form of canal volunteering I’ve been involved with (I am also a CRT volunteer) requires a level of personal commitment and cost on the behalf of the volunteer to provide the service required.

 

Volockies that don’t offer significant help to boaters are removing value from the system.

 

 

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Any citizen can do that of their own free will. There’s considerable cost involved in the training, administration and equipping volunteer lock keepers.

 

Every other form of canal volunteering I’ve been involved with (I am also a CRT volunteer) requires a level of personal commitment and cost on the behalf of the volunteer to provide the service required.

 

Volockies that don’t offer significant help to boaters are removing value from the system.

 

 

There are people and workers in all aspects of life (including boaters and posters on CWDF) who are either useful/helpful or a waste of space -- what makes you expect that volockies would be any different? 😉

Edited June 13, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

And here you sum up one of the problems with Vollies. There is absolutely no guarantee they will do no harm. 

 

Chances are they will be fine, but if I sink my boat in a lock its my problem. If a vollie sinks my boat in a lock, its still my problem! 

 

 

I have come across very good one and also very poor ones plus the argumentative ones   

[IanD]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have come across very good one and also very poor ones plus the argumentative ones   

Also true for boaters and CWDF posters (and everywhere else) -- see above... 😉

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have come across very good one and also very poor ones plus the argumentative ones   

Ever met any tedious ones?

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Ever met any tedious ones?

Yes -- also posters who tediously go on and on about how useless volockies are... 😉

[ditchcrawler]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

Also true for boaters and CWDF posters (and everywhere else) -- see above... 😉

Yes, but they don't try to work my boat through locks. I can just switch them off

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Yes, but they don't try to work my boat through locks. I can just switch them off

It would be great if all volockies were as good as the best ones, wouldn't it?

 

Also policemen, doctors, car mechanics, technical support people, hairdressers, chefs, bar staff, lawyers, social workers, drivers, boaters, journalists, tennis players, footballers, CART workers, managers...
 

Meanwhile, back in the real world... 😉

[system 4-50]

Roundabouts.  I like driving my car but roundabouts are a pain.  I have never come across a volunteer roundabouter, one would be useful after travelling through eg Stevenage, Milton Keynes & such like.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Roundabouts.  I like driving my car but roundabouts are a pain.  I have never come across a volunteer roundabouter, one would be useful after travelling through eg Stevenage, Milton Keynes & such like.

 

This could also reduce unemployment, the "magic roundabout" would need at least half-a-dozen roundabouters to direct people round it.

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Any citizen can do that of their own free will. There’s considerable cost involved in the training, administration and equipping volunteer lock keepers.

 

Every other form of canal volunteering I’ve been involved with (I am also a CRT volunteer) requires a level of personal commitment and cost on the behalf of the volunteer to provide the service required.

 

Volockies that don’t offer significant help to boaters are removing value from the system.

 

 

Let me be clear: I believe that anyone badged as an approved/authorised volunteer (in whatever context) must have a minimu level of training, if nothing else than to ensure with safeguarding requirements.

 

However, if there is no 'waiting list' to become a volunteer or some form of selection iis required, I cannot see what value they are removing from the system. They may well not be adding to it, but that's different.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

Roundabouts.  I like driving my car but roundabouts are a pain.  I have never come across a volunteer roundabouter, one would be useful after travelling through eg Stevenage, Milton Keynes & such like.

CRT could have them at Little Venice, Old Turn in Birmingham and that ex-swing bridge on the Caldon.

[Mike Tee]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

Roundabouts.  I like driving my car but roundabouts are a pain.  I have never come across a volunteer roundabouter, one would be useful after travelling through eg Stevenage, Milton Keynes & such like.

Its all in the mind - I live in Milton Keynes and treat every roundabout as a vehicular playground. As long as there is no contact, no problem😁

[Francis Herne]

8 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

However, if there is no 'waiting list' to become a volunteer or some form of selection iis required, I cannot see what value they are removing from the system. They may well not be adding to it, but that's different.

The time of the CRT staff providing the training and other management of volockies has value. So do the lifejackets, windlasses, blue shirts and travel allowances.

 

I think on the whole volockies are a net positive because most of the ones I've encountered are pretty helpful, but those who aren't are a definite cost to CRT and thus indirectly the system.

 

It's also possible for incompetent ones to directly remove value by wasting water and/or boaters' time. Stoke Bruerne keeps being mentioned in that context. Plus the potential worst case of sinking a boat.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Francis Herne

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

It's also possible for incompetent ones to be a direct loss by wasting water, boaters' time or in the worst case damaging boats. Stoke Bruerne keeps being mentioned in that context.

 

 

 

Further to this, it is not possible to assign a financial loss to the degree of concern, uncertainty and doubt they induce in boaters who have experienced the worst of them. 

 

[nicknorman]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Further to this, it is not possible to assign a financial loss to the degree of concern, uncertainty and doubt they induce in boaters who have experienced the worst of them. 

 

I think it’s slightly different for us as a 2 person crew. We are not so much worried about what the volockie might do to our boat (the concern, uncertainty and doubt in your post) because one of us is on the boat and one of us is lockside and not tolerating inappropriate actions from a volockie. We now always start the proceedings by saying “we don’t want any assistance, thank you”. For us it is mostly about sucking the fun out of locks, just like the dementors in Harry Potter movies. I really don’t want to be patronised, controlled, have every minutia about a specific lock explained to me like I’d never been through a lock before. I don’t think it’s unusual to resent these sorts of things! As I often say, no-one likes a back-seat driver!

 

Of course there are plenty of volockies who aren’t like that at all. But one tends to not really remember those ones, one just remembers the ones who fit the above description!

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

For us it is mostly about sucking the fun out of locks, just like the dementors in Harry Potter movies.

 

Yes, this exactly. 

 

Just as there a dementors on this forum who suck the fun out of posting. But I've got them all safely on "IGNORE" now, making this place as lovely as locks without Vollies!

[Francis Herne]

See, that complaint is the one I don't really get.

 

In the last month, I've done 112 locks on Lark and

received assistance at 14 of them:

6 BCNS (Titford flight for the rally)

1 CRT volunteers

1 CRT staff

6 random passersby (of which 3 actually helpful opening/closing gates, 2 a small child who was really keen on boats and her dad, 1 a group of curious students)

 

plus a couple of shared wide locks and a few gates left open when passing boats going the other way.

 

I can't remember precisely over a longer period but that feels pretty typical.

 

Given the insignificant number of locks people want to help me play with it seems churlish to refuse them, and volockies specifically barely feature in my life. Perhaps there are more of them where you two are.

[nicknorman]

4 hours ago, Francis Herne said:

See, that complaint is the one I don't really get.

 

In the last month, I've done 112 locks on Lark and

received assistance at 14 of them:

6 BCNS (Titford flight for the rally)

1 CRT volunteers

1 CRT staff

6 random passersby (of which 3 actually helpful opening/closing gates, 2 a small child who was really keen on boats and her dad, 1 a group of curious students)

 

plus a couple of shared wide locks and a few gates left open when passing boats going the other way.

 

I can't remember precisely over a longer period but that feels pretty typical.

 

Given the insignificant number of locks people want to help me play with it seems churlish to refuse them, and volockies specifically barely feature in my life. Perhaps there are more of them where you two are.

If there are gongoozlers around, especially with kids etc, we often see if they’d like to help eg opening and closing gates. It can make their day, so why not? And sometimes we offer a little trip on the boat up to next lock etc. Recently we took a family of 3 from Haywood lock to the junction. Just 5 mins but they loved it. Dad was heard to say “maybe we should hire a boat?”

 

I see that as completely different - we get them to help us under close supervision and it’s highly unlikely that they will do something we hadn’t asked for, give us unrequested directions on how to operate the lock and the boat, inappropriately tell us we must wait for another boat etc etc and the gongoozlers are friendly and cheery, not taciturn grumpy old white beardy men like so many volockies.

 

I’ll say it again, not all volockies are on our hate list by any means, some are great. But it’s the dread of seeing the blue shirts and life jackets as one approaches a lock because you have no idea whether it’s going to be a pleasant experience or a conflict.

[magnetman]

I can see how dreading the presence of taciturn grumpy old white beardy men could significantly reduce the enjoyment of boating. 

 

Would grumpy old black beardy men be any better?

 

Its bad news. 

 

 

Does the CRT have enough diversity? 

 

What about taciturn grumpy old indians ? 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I’ll say it again, not all volockies are on our hate list by any means, some are great. But it’s the dread of seeing the blue shirts and life jackets as one approaches a lock because you have no idea whether it’s going to be a pleasant experience or a conflict.

 

Same here. Its the uncertainty I don't like. 

 

But I guess it isn't going to change. I think I need (especially as a single hander) to change my view and accept that occasional vollies are just part of the boating landscape now. I need to think about the exact ways in which they tend to interfere with my locking against my wishes, and develop strategies for stopping it happening or for dealing with it when it does. That way, at least the uncertainty is reduced as I'll have a plan. 

 

The thing that chuffs me off is when going uphill as a single hander, seeing the gates swing open as I approach a lock, then shutting behind me and before the boat is even stationary and I can climb the lock ladder, getting told to "Stay on the boat" by two more vollies already on the paddles, and itching to get winding. I am made to feel like a complete PITA if I insist on climbing the ladder and getting off the boat (as I prefer to do in locks). So I usually cave in and let them just fill it, and usually it's been fine but one day it won't be. Something will go wrong and I'll be stuck on the boat and reliant on bankside vollies actually noticing, when I need to be on the lockside myself with windlass in hand, in order to sort it out. 

 

I think I'll perhaps try getting off the boat in the lock mouth in future and hauling it in with the centre line, so I'm already on the bank. See how that goes.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by MtB
Fiddle with it

[Rob-M]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Same here. Its the uncertainty I don't like. 

 

But I guess it isn't going to change. I think I need (especially as a single hander) to change my view and accept that occasional vollies are just part of the boating landscape now. I need to think about the exact ways in which they tend to interfere with my locking against my wishes, and develop strategies for stopping it happening or for dealing with it when it does. That way, at least the uncertainty is reduced as I'll have a plan. 

 

The thing that chuffs me off is when going uphill as a single hander, seeing the gates swing open as I approach a lock, then shutting behind me and before the boat is even stationary and I can climb the lock ladder, getting told to "Stay on the boat" by two more vollies already on the paddles, and itching to get winding. I am made to feel like a complete PITA if I insist on climbing the ladder and getting off the boat as I to do in locks do so I usually cave in and let them just fill it. And usually it's been fine but one day it won't be. Something will go wrong and I'll be stuck on the boat when I need to be on the lock side with windlass myself, to sort it out. 

 

I think I'll perhaps try getting off the boat in the lock mouth in future and hauling it in with the centre line, so I'm already on the bank. See how that goes.

I've come to accept at Fradley it is almost impossible to avoid volunteers although I tend to go early or at lunchtime to try to miss them.  If I am on my own before they have the bottom gates shut I will be on the roof walking towards the ladder and if they say stay on I just reply to say no.  Or I step off as the boat enters the lock and I let it drift in, then nip down the ladder to grab the centre line whilst they are shutting the gates.

[Arthur Marshall]

The last few I've met have all asked if I want help, and have never told me to stay on the boat. As a single hander , I've always asked them if they're happy for for me to stay on! Once I'm in reach of the top of the lock I'll get off and help. Going down, obviously not.

Admittedly I don't meet many as I tend to move off early and moor up mid morning.

I don't see the locks as a particularly pleasurable activity, it's the pootling along, scenery and relaxation I do it for. It'd be boring without them, though, but wrestling with stiff paddles and unbalanced beams isn't a huge amount of fun, though I suppose overcoming the challenge can be rewarding.