Jump to content

New T&C's - merged thread


Featured Posts

CRT's revised T&C's will be published later today, applicable from 1st June. Will be interesting to see if they include the requirement for boaters with a home mooring who will now be required to undertake a 'genuine cruise', whatever that is, whenever they go out in their boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PRESS RELEASE

 

24th May 2021

 

CANAL & RIVER TRUST PUBLISHES UPDATED LICENCE T&CS

 

The Canal & River Trust is today publishing its updated Private Boat Licence Terms & Conditions alongside a report detailing the results of the recent 12-week consultation. The changes will come into effect from 1 June 2021 and will be applied to renewals and new licences from that date. 

 

The consultation received widespread support, with 78% of respondents in agreement across all nine proposals, ranging from 63% to 88% for individual proposals. The consultation was completed by over 3,300 individuals, around 10% of the Trust’s boat licence holders.

 

The Trust received considered and helpful responses to the consultation from waterway organisations, individual boaters, and the Trust’s navigational advisory group – made up of boaters who volunteer to advise the Trust on navigational matters. As a result of the feedback, the Trust has rewritten the Terms & Conditions to improve their ‘readability’, re-wording some of the proposals to make them simpler. Several other minor amendments were made to the proposals based on feedback received.

 

These changes to the Terms and Conditions are intended to make them as clear as possible and strengthen them to protect both boat owners and the Trust. 

 

After such a positive and constructive response to the consultation with respondents largely recognising the purpose and strength of the proposals, and their feedback further shaping several of them, the Trust thanks everyone who took the time to share their thoughts.

 

The consultation was open to all licence holders and was undertaken by online survey. A full consultation report is available here.

 

The new Private Boat Licence Terms & Conditions can be found here.

 

-ends-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting that there is now a new licence " A continuous cruising licence" 

 

 

The following types of licence can be applied for. These Conditions (including any Schedules) below apply to these options:

 

• A Pleasure Boat Licence (“standard boat licence”) for either 3, 6 or 12 months is required to navigate on Our Canals & Rivers. You will need a home mooring for Your boat for this licence type.

 

• A Rivers Only Licence is valid for ‘River Waterways’. These are defined in Schedule 1 of the British Waterways Act 1972, as amended. A Rivers Only Licence constitutes a “pleasure boat certificate” for the purposes of the Act.

 

• A Continuous Cruising licence does not need Your boat to have a home mooring. This licence is either for 6 or 12 months and You’ll have to follow Our ‘Guidance for Boaters Without a Home Mooring’

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link no longer works due to typographical errors caused by vandals ;) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

obviously that's a joke, i'm gonna give it a read now and let most of it go way over my head.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Hudds Lad said:

Link no longer works due to typographical errors caused by vandals ;) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

obviously that's a joke, i'm gonna give it a read now and let most of it go way over my head.

 

 

Works for me.

Still reading about what Boats with a home mooring must do to comply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you must not go through a tunnel if you can't swim, and you have to travel in groups.  ?

 

 

3.7. Unpowered boats may not navigate certain tunnels. Check the list at 
www.canalrivertrUst.org.uk/tunnels or contact Our Customer Service Team on 03030 404040. 
Where You are permitted to navigate, We encourage the following precautions:
 
3.7.1. where possible, navigate in groups of between three and six boats, at least one of which 
must be navigated by an experienced person;
3.7.2. everyone on the Boat should be able to swim;
3.7.3. everyone on the Boat should Wear a life jacket, with a waterproof torch and whistle attached 
to it;
3.7.4. the Boat must have adequate buoyancy; and
3.7.5. You must display a securely fixed, bright white light showing forward.

 

I am so glad we left carts stinking ditches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Works for me.

Still reading about what Boats with a home mooring must do to comply.

As it is only a few paragraphs it shouldn't take long, in summary when away from your home mooring you must go boating and not moor for more than 14 days in one place or keep going between the same places without returning to your home mooring.

1 minute ago, Loddon said:

So you must not go through a tunnel if you can't swim, and you have to travel in groups.  ?

 

 

3.7. Unpowered boats may not navigate certain tunnels. Check the list at 
www.canalrivertrUst.org.uk/tunnels or contact Our Customer Service Team on 03030 404040. 
Where You are permitted to navigate, We encourage the following precautions:
 
3.7.1. where possible, navigate in groups of between three and six boats, at least one of which 
must be navigated by an experienced person;
3.7.2. everyone on the Boat should be able to swim;
3.7.3. everyone on the Boat should Wear a life jacket, with a waterproof torch and whistle attached 
to it;
3.7.4. the Boat must have adequate buoyancy; and
3.7.5. You must display a securely fixed, bright white light showing forward.

 

I am so glad we left carts stinking ditches.

Sounds like sensible precautions to me if you are paddling through a tunnel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Works for me.

Still reading about what Boats with a home mooring must do to comply.

 

You didn't bother with the second sentence then? :D 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

You didn't bother with the second sentence then? :D 

 

 

They say :

 

Boats with a Home Mooring

5.1. You must travel on a journey when You are away from Your Home Mooring. Your journey should be a genuine journey. It should start and end at Your Home Mooring. It does not have to be over a certain duration, distance or range, or follow a single direction. It cannot contain short, repeated movement in a small part of the Waterway for an extended period, unless You return to the Home Mooring between repeated trips. Each time You leave Your Home Mooring You start a new journey

 

 

It would be interesting to compare that to that which a judge said

 

 

 

The judgement in the case of CaRT v Mayers states that repeated journeys between the same two places would be 'bona fide navigation' if the boater had specific reason for making repeated journeys over the same stretch of canal. HHJ Halbert also stated that any requirement by CaRT to use a substantial part of the canal network was not justified by Section 17(3)(c)(ii) of the British Waterways Act 1995 because the requirement to use the boat for bona fide navigation is 'temporal not geographical'.

 

6:3 There are clear anomalies in both positions, CRT clearly regard the occupation of moorings by permanently residential boat owners who do not move very much as a significant problem (see paragraphs 3.5 and 3.6 above). However, neither the statutory regime in subsection 17(3) nor the guidelines can deal with this problem. A boat which has a home mooring is not required to be “bona fide” used for navigation throughout the period of the licence, but neither is it required to ever use its home mooring. The act requires that the mooring is available, it does not say it must be used. The guidelines also have this effect. The boat is still subject to the restriction that it must not stay in the same place for more than 14 days but there is nothing whatever to stop it being shuffled between two locations quite close together provided they are far enough apart to constitute different places. If those who are causing the overcrowding at popular spots have home moorings anywhere in the country the present regime cannot control their overuse of the popular spots. Such an owner could cruise to and fro along the Kennet & Avon canal near Bristol and the home mooring could be in Birmingham and totally unused.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I am so glad we left carts stinking ditches.

 

Now over 12 months for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:banghead:

 

Now i'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse @Alan de Enfield, or just not realising that i'm referring to my original post where the second sentence pointed out that the "broken link" was a joke so not broken at all.

 

i'm not pursuing a career in comedy, it's too much like hard work :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, frangar said:

We aren't missing you.....?

You've done your best to avoid me since you left BE ?

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5.1. You must travel on a journey when You are away from Your Home Mooring. Your journey should be a genuine journey. It should start and end at Your Home Mooring. It does not have to be over a certain duration, distance or range, or follow a single direction. It cannot contain short, repeated movement in a small part of the Waterway for an extended period, unless You return to the Home Mooring between repeated trips. Each time You leave Your Home Mooring You start a new journey.

 

Doesn't seem to me to be anything other than reasonable.

 

Am I correct in thinking T&C's aren't the law and therefore you can't be prosecuted for breaking them if you comply with the 1995 transport act?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Am I correct in thinking T&C's aren't the law and therefore you can't be prosecuted for breaking them if you comply with the 1995 transport act?

Yes you are correct, however cart will revoke your licence if you don't comply with the T&C and then take you to court for not having a licence ?

Edited by Loddon
  • Greenie 2
  • Horror 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Loddon said:

So you must not go through a tunnel if you can't swim, and you have to travel in groups.  ?

 

 

3.7. Unpowered boats may not navigate certain tunnels. Check the list at 
www.canalrivertrUst.org.uk/tunnels or contact Our Customer Service Team on 03030 404040. 
Where You are permitted to navigate, We encourage the following precautions:
 
3.7.1. where possible, navigate in groups of between three and six boats, at least one of which 
must be navigated by an experienced person;
3.7.2. everyone on the Boat should be able to swim;
3.7.3. everyone on the Boat should Wear a life jacket, with a waterproof torch and whistle attached 
to it;
3.7.4. the Boat must have adequate buoyancy; and
3.7.5. You must display a securely fixed, bright white light showing forward.

 

I am so glad we left carts stinking ditches.

Only applies to unpowered craft. Seems like reasonable precautions to me for unpowered craft in tunnels.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, David Mack said:

Only applies to unpowered craft. Seems like reasonable precautions to me for unpowered craft in tunnels.

 

It could be read the other way as well.

Still glad I left, 2years and counting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Loddon said:

 

It could be read the other way as well.

 

Only if you are being obtuse. It's all part of clause 3.7 which begins with "unpowered craft", and I note that the precautions in 3.7.1 to 3.7.5 are not mandatory but are encouraged.

Could be more of a problem for butties - a group of 3-6 butties being legged through a tunnel would be unusual!

3 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Showing a light in both directions would be better IMHO.

I'd agree with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it just me or do the 'i's look like 'l's?

This is still there for those with home moorings, even though it conflicts with the 1995 act:

 

5.1.You must travel on a journey when You are away from Your Home Mooring. Your journey should be a genuine journey. It should start and end at Your Home Mooring. It does not have to be over a certain duration, distance or range, or follow a single direction. It cannot contain short, repeated movement in a small part of the Waterway for an extended period, unless You return to the Home Mooring between repeated trips. Each time You leave Your Home Mooring You start a new journey.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks like there will be different boat licences now for home moorers and ccers but nothing about different fees:

 A Pleasure Boat Licence (“standard boat licence”) for either 3, 6 or 12 months is required to navigate on Our Canals & Rivers. You will need a home mooring for Your boat for this licence type.
 A Continuous Cruising licence does not need Your boat to have a home mooring. This licence is either for 6 or 12 months and You’ll have to follow Our ‘Guidance for Boaters Without a Home Mooring’.
 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

It looks like there will be different boat licences now for home moorers and ccers but nothing about different fees:

 A Pleasure Boat Licence (“standard boat licence”) for either 3, 6 or 12 months is required to navigate on Our Canals & Rivers. You will need a home mooring for Your boat for this licence type.
 A Continuous Cruising licence does not need Your boat to have a home mooring. This licence is either for 6 or 12 months and You’ll have to follow Our ‘Guidance for Boaters Without a Home Mooring’.
 

 

 

See post No2

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found this bit of interest.

 

1.5. ‘Boat’s Dimensions’ means the measurements of Your Boat, including Air Draught, Boat Beam, Boat Length and Boat Draught. 1.6. ‘Boat Draught’ means the distance from the surface of the water to the deepest part of the Boat. 1.7. ‘Boat Length’ means the length overall of the Boat. This includes permanently fixed fenders as reasonably needed to be Used when the Boat is moored or moving. It also includes any bowsprits, boarding ladders, davits including their loads, out drives, rudders, anchors, pulpits, push pits and any other extensions of the Boat.

 

It clears up the issue of "conventional" fenders, i.e. tipcats, button fenders etc., but includes the rudder.

I would take this example to be a "Permanently" fixed fender.

 

16866807486_72ba65dd30_o.jpg

 

Edited by Ray T
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Yes you are correct, however cart will revoke your licence if you don't comply with the T&C and then take you to court for not having a licence ?

How under current statue law can the Trust revoke your licence?

Which Act takes precedent?  The 1962, or later 1968-1995 Acts.

 

Bod

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • magpie patrick changed the title to New T&C's - merged thread

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.