12v Shoreline fridge

[JonesBoy]

Nick. Just seen post.

If it’s been working like this for over a year doubt if it’s a leak as gas would have all gone by now.

 

Some install info from Shoreline, you may have seen or not, may help.

 “Appliance must be allowed to run for at least 6 hours from starting before loading with food to ensure correct cooling operation”

 

“Allow at least 25 mm clearance above, to each side, and to the rear to provide sufficient air gap between the appliance and the adjacent galley walls.

This is most important on those models with ‘side skin’ condensers"

 

“Better air flow means shorter running periods and lower energy consumption”

 

“To achieve the optimum storage temperature for your food products, refrigerators should hold an average internal temperature of +5ºc, and freezers and freezer compartments below -12ºc.If your appliance is holding temperatures colder than these recommended settings, the appliance will be running unnecessarily. In ambient temperatures approaching +32ºc the motor compressor will be running for longer periods”

[Sea Dog]

20 hours ago, JonesBoy said:

 

 “Appliance must be allowed to run for at least 6 hours from starting before loading with food to ensure correct cooling operation”

 

I can't see that happening very often in a boaty application. I'll bet the vast majority of boaters get onboard, flash up the fridge and unpack their supplies into it. Food for thought though, eh? Albeit slightly warm food, presumably... 

 

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

I can't see that happening very often in a boaty application. I'll bet the vast majority of boaters get onboard, flash up the fridge and unpack their supplies into it. Food for thought though, eh? Albeit slightly warm food, presumably... 

 

Yes I think it just means that if you don’t do that, the food will get a bit warm for a while, but I can’t see how it could have any effect days later. We tend to buy a bag of ice and put in the icebox on arrival, to help cool everything down.

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes I think it just means that if you don’t do that, the food will get a bit warm for a while, but I can’t see how it could have any effect days later. We tend to buy a bag of ice and put in the icebox on arrival, to help cool everything down.

I can't see that being your issue either, as it would catch up and sort itself out eventually - maybe more quickly if the contents are already chilled.

 

Mine, a similar age Shoreline, is performing a bit like yours, and I'm thinking of throwing a new thermostat at it, since everything else seems fine and at least it's something that can be achieved relatively easily and will remove that particular doubt. Always assuming I can nail down the right stat!

 

If there is such an animal as fridge mechanic who might be able to diagnose and fix issues like yours (mine?) as is sometimes suggested, no-one has ever been able to point me to a real live one.

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Mine, a similar age Shoreline, is performing a bit like yours, and I'm thinking of throwing a new thermostat at it, since everything else seems fine and at least it's something that can be achieved relatively easily and will remove that particular doubt. Always assuming I can nail down the right stat!

 

Something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402359698516

Will enable you to bypass the internal stat.

Just push the temp probe up the drain hole of the fridge, wire the unit into the supply,  and turn the internal stat full up and you have a far more accurate stat than is in the fridge at present.

 

 

There are many available just search digital 12v thermostat on eBay.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Loddon

[JonesBoy]

22 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

I can't see that happening very often in a boaty application. I'll bet the vast majority of boaters get onboard, flash up the fridge and unpack their supplies into it. Food for thought though, eh? Albeit slightly warm food, presumably... 

 

 

22 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Mine, a similar age Shoreline, is performing a bit like yours, and I'm thinking of throwing a new thermostat at it, since everything else seems fine and at least it's something that can be achieved relatively easily and will remove that particular doubt. Always assuming I can nail down the right st

Manufactures go over the top with instructions, just to cover their arse. Like don’t put your head in the microwave or your dog when switched on.?

You can get thermostats from shorelines website.

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, JonesBoy said:

Manufactures go over the top with instructions, just to cover their arse. Like don’t put your head in the microwave or your dog when switched on.

Sadly, that latter instruction is allegedly due to a stupid American woman who sued a microwave manufacturer for not stating that it was unsuitable for drying her dog. After she'd cooked the poor unfortunate thing   Snopes, however, doubts the veracity of the story.

[JonesBoy]

27 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Sadly, that latter instruction is allegedly due to a stupid American woman who sued a microwave manufacturer for not stating that it was unsuitable for drying her dog. After she'd cooked the poor unfortunate thing   Snopes, however, doubts the veracity of the story.

Never the less things have to be stated that’s why some instruction info is so long and to most people obvious.

It became harder and harder to give anyone practical advise due the litigation ethos that moved here from the states.

[Sea Dog]

On 30/08/2020 at 13:49, Loddon said:

Something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402359698516

Will enable you to bypass the internal stat.

Just push the temp probe up the drain hole of the fridge, wire the unit into the supply,  and turn the internal stat full up and you have a far more accurate stat than is in the fridge at present.

 

 

There are many available just search digital 12v thermostat on eBay.

 

Good shout - I'd previously found something similar linked from a post on a yachtie forum.  It might be a good way to go. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, JonesBoy said:

Like don’t put your head in the microwave or your dog when switched on

I'd never consider putting my head in a dog when it was switched on.

 

A man walks into a pub, bringing with him an 8 foot female crocodile. "You can't bring that in here", says the landlord. " Don't worry", says the owner, "she's as soft as a brush. Watch this".

With that, he turned to face the crocodile, pulled out his John Thomas, produced a stick, and hit the crocodile twice on the head, CRACK!, CRACK!. Immediately, the crocodile climbed up, and very gently, put its mouth around his John Thomas.

"By gum!" said the landlord, "That's amazing. If you bring her back tomorrow night, to show my mate, I'll give you 50 quid".

The next night, word had got around, and the pub was packed. Once again, the man turned to face the crocodile, pulled out his John Thomas, produced the the stick, and CRACK!, CRACK!, hit the crocodile on the head. Sure enough the crocodile rose to the occasion.

Several men came forward, and the sound of the stick could be heard around the pub.

"I'm going home soon", said the croc owner, "would anyone else like a turn before I go?" A little old lady in the corner of the pub put her hand up. "I wouldn't mind, but you're not going to hit me with that stick, are you?".

Edited August 31, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[JonesBoy]

17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

  On 31/08/2020 at 11:10, JonesBoy said:

Like don’t put your head in the microwave or your dog when switched on

17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'd never consider putting my head in a dog when it was switched on.

 

 

Good one

I should really read wot I write 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, JonesBoy said:

Good one

 

I should really read wot I write 

 

 

Don't worry, it just follows on from the well known Newspaper advert :

 

"Wanted, table for lady with Queen Anne legs"

 

[George and Dragon]

Just been back to the boat for a week. Almost exactly the same as the OP's issue (our fridge might be a couple of years older). It seems to draw 9 or 10A while it's running accounting for the majority of our electric usage. Even with the expected duty cycle of 33% that would still amount to 960Wh per day which is too much for the 440Ah battery bank. So I think we need to find a 240V replacement. 

[Alan de Enfield]

41 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Just been back to the boat for a week. Almost exactly the same as the OP's issue (our fridge might be a couple of years older). It seems to draw 9 or 10A while it's running accounting for the majority of our electric usage. Even with the expected duty cycle of 33% that would still amount to 960Wh per day which is too much for the 440Ah battery bank. So I think we need to find a 240V replacement. 

Or,

 

Buy a newer model.

My 12v Waeco uses ~30Ah per day (say 400Wh) a single solar (170w low-light) panel almost keeps that and the 240v Freezer supplied during the Summer.

10-12 hours at 5A or 6A means that the batteries are simply supplying 'small usage' items (LED lights, phone charger, TV, Laptop and pumps)

 

The Waeco is claimed to have an "Average power consumption of 40W" but using those units I have no idea where they are 'averaging it'

 

Maybe it averages 40Wh ?

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, George and Dragon said:

Just been back to the boat for a week. Almost exactly the same as the OP's issue (our fridge might be a couple of years older). It seems to draw 9 or 10A while it's running accounting for the majority of our electric usage. Even with the expected duty cycle of 33% that would still amount to 960Wh per day which is too much for the 440Ah battery bank. So I think we need to find a 240V replacement. 

That is a lot of current, my ancient Batts draws only 4A once it has started and the duty cycle is about 30% if I turn it down to #2 and defrost it regularly. Gets a bit thirstier if its very warm or I stoke the nuclear power plant up.

 

Yes we can all be daft, most of the time. Its fun to join two threads together.

[PineappleGuy]

Nick, did you ever work out what was happening with your fridge? I ask because our Shoreline RR102W was gurgling away much of the time when we were on the boat during an admittedly hot week in September. I reckon it was on about 60% of the time at setting 4, so averaging 2.5A compared to the maker’s claim of 0.95A. The batteries suffered as a result and the fridge shut down due to low voltage. It was just about ok if I turned it off for 10 hours overnight.

 

P.S. The fridge is 4 years old and will also work off 240V when detected, so no problem when the boat is in a Marina.

Edited October 28, 2020 by PineappleGuy

[PineappleGuy]

On 20/09/2020 at 12:34, Alan de Enfield said:

Or,

 

Buy a newer model.

My 12v Waeco uses ~30Ah per day (say 400Wh) a single solar (170w low-light) panel almost keeps that and the 240v Freezer supplied during the Summer.

10-12 hours at 5A or 6A means that the batteries are simply supplying 'small usage' items (LED lights, phone charger, TV, Laptop and pumps)

 

The Waeco is claimed to have an "Average power consumption of 40W" but using those units I have no idea where they are 'averaging it'

 

Maybe it averages 40Wh ?

The Waeco that I've just looked up also says 1.1Ah/h so that ties in with your 30Ah per day. It probably uses 40W with a duty cycle of 33%.

[nicknorman]

34 minutes ago, PineappleGuy said:

Nick, did you ever work out what was happening with your fridge? I ask because our Shoreline RR102W was gurgling away much of the time when we were on the boat during an admittedly hot week in September. I reckon it was on about 60% of the time at setting 4, so averaging 2.5A compared to the maker’s claim of 0.95A. The batteries suffered as a result and the fridge shut down due to low voltage. It was just about ok if I turned it off for 10 hours overnight.

 

P.S. The fridge is 4 years old and will also work off 240V when detected, so no problem when the boat is in a Marina.

No, unfortunately not. We had a lengthy period back home Sept to mid Oct. Back on the boat this week and yes, I am noticing the fridge is still running a lot. Still awaiting that round tuit I seem to have mislaid!

[Cheshire cat]

How do you go about getting a fridge regassed. Just wondering?

[BEngo]

You find a refrigeration engineer with a bottle of the right refrigerant.  Most are not interchangeable, some have been banned.

 

The idea is to connect the bottle to the filling stub (bit of copper pipe with a crimped end,  usually sticking out of the compressor), weigh bottle, open tap till the right amount (by weight) of stuff has gone in.  Close bottle tap.  Crimp the filling stub shut.  Remove bottle.  Bend the crimp over and braze it.

The quantity and type of the refrigerant are usually marked on the data plate.

  Before regassing you need to do the hard part:  Find out why the gas left in the first place and stop the new stuff doing the same.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

You find a refrigeration engineer with a bottle of the right refrigerant.  Most are not interchangeable, some have been banned.

 

The idea is to connect the bottle to the filling stub (bit of copper pipe with a crimped end,  usually sticking out of the compressor), weigh bottle, open tap till the right amount (by weight) of stuff has gone in.  Close bottle tap.  Crimp the filling stub shut.  Remove bottle.  Bend the crimp over and braze it.

The quantity and type of the refrigerant are usually marked on the data plate.

  Before regassing you need to do the hard part:  Find out why the gas left in the first place and stop the new stuff doing the same.

On our fridge there seems to be a proper “fitting” to which a suitable connection can be made without any cutting/crimping/brazing. And a label indicating the type of refrigerant.

 

Yes one should be aware of why the refrigerant has escaped but in our case, with the fridge being 10 years old and still working to some extent, surely it could just be a tiny slow leak, and topping up will give us another 10 years?

 

What I am not clear about is whether the amount of refrigerant still in it can be determined by pressure, or is the pressure determined by the vapour pressure of the stuff, a bit like lpg in a cylinder? And thus will be fixed until there is no more liquid refrigerant?

 

If so then I guess one would have to remove all the refrigerant, before replacing it measured by weight as you describe.

Edited October 31, 2020 by nicknorman

[nb Innisfree]

On 28/10/2020 at 21:58, PineappleGuy said:

Nick, did you ever work out what was happening with your fridge? I ask because our Shoreline RR102W was gurgling away much of the time when we were on the boat during an admittedly hot week in September. I reckon it was on about 60% of the time at setting 4, so averaging 2.5A compared to the maker’s claim of 0.95A. The batteries suffered as a result and the fridge shut down due to low voltage. It was just about ok if I turned it off for 10 hours overnight.

 

P.S. The fridge is 4 years old and will also work off 240V when detected, so no problem when the boat is in a Marina.

I did a series of tests to determine the duty cycle of our Shoreline 12/24v fridge (running on 24v) Result was around 12hrs winter and summer, I can only assume it was down to maintaining a warm boat in the winter. 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

I did a series of tests to determine the duty cycle of our Shoreline 12/24v fridge (running on 24v) Result was around 12hrs winter and summer, I can only assume it was down to maintaining a warm boat in the winter. 

Assuming that it was 12 hours per 24 hours that does seem very high.

 

I know mine is a Waeco but mine is around 20 minutes per hour (33%)

[PineappleGuy]

Our fridge is brilliantly located .... next to the cooker and the oven was on for an hour every evening! So we gave the fridge a couple of hours to recover from that and then turned it off overnight. The frozen stuff was surprisingly still ok in the morning. Really must do something to improve the battery charging, but that's another conversation.

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, PineappleGuy said:

Our fridge is brilliantly located .... next to the cooker and the oven was on for an hour every evening! So we gave the fridge a couple of hours to recover from that and then turned it off overnight. The frozen stuff was surprisingly still ok in the morning. Really must do something to improve the battery charging, but that's another conversation.

Many boats have stupid fit outs that are done by people who are realy quite clueless. I have had boats with fridges next to cookers and why the hell do people fit noisey washing machines in the kitchen next to the front cabin!!