Jump to content

Oil really love your help!


Featured Posts

Hello! 

 

Warning: If you are a seasoned boater who knows their way around an engine, you may find your eyes rolling at my ineptitude. All I can say is I'm trying and want to know more, before you say google it... I did but I'm struggling to make heads or tails of it. 

 

Background: diesel, Vetus M3.10 engine, 37ft boat, looks like the engine had it's first 50 running hours 1987. 

Myself: Had the boat 6 months, never touched an engine before her, currently racking up my call outs with RCR. 

 

I've managed to get the RCR mechanic to go through a service with me and he's going to talk me through how to do it myself, go through the whole maintenance schedule! Brilliant.

Problem, he said he can supply the oil but he's saying he's got 15w40 that he puts in. 

The original manual that I've found is stating the following:

Engine Oil SAE 10w30, Mil-L-2104 C, CC-CD 

 

Not sure what 'Mil-L-2104 C, CC-CD' means but not sure that parts important.

Please correct me and inform if it is very much important. 

 

It's given a list of examples, which are the following:

Shell Rimula CT 10W30

Gulf Veritas SD 10W30 

Esso Essolube D 3 10W30

Mobil Delvac 13 10W30

Chevron Delo Super 10W30 

 

Every single one of those oils have been discontinued.

I've gone onto Vetus' website and even they don't sell 10W30 for inboard apparently it's for 4 stroke 'outboard' engines, then again they have discontinued the M3.10 engine. 

 

Now possibly, it says in the manual 10W30 because other oils weren't really around. Maybe today we have a better oil for this type of engine, something that wasn't available 30-odd years ago. 

 

I'm very worried because she's an old engine and I really want to do the BEST for her, whatever it takes. Don't want to buy the cheapest alternative, want the best alternative.... also something I can get my hands on for this weekend 9/5/2020. I know! Perfect time to try and do an oil change but my alternator broke and so it's getting refurbed and the mechanic says he can talk me through a service at the same time he fixes my alternator... As I'm probably 50 running hours over the recommended running time before it needed another service (going off the manuals guide).... Whoops! 

 

Any suggestions? What type of oil? where can I get it? Somewhere online? 

If you can give me a bit of background info on why you suggest the oil, that would be really nice to know!

 

Thanks for your help, advice or any offerings you can make!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The numbers tell you how viscous (thick) the oil is. 15:40 is a bit "thicker". Its quite possible that the engineer who designed the engine would have preferred 15:40 but had to specify the thinner stuff to get a little improvement in fuel economy.  

Some of those letters are possibly more important than the numbers. The CC specifies an old style of oil with not too many additives. Modern oils have loads of additives which are usually good, but can be really bad in canal boats because the engine spends most of its life working not very hard at all and the additives can sort of gum things up, (bore glazing).

 

...............Dave

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another support for 15w/40 - my Beta friends got very cross when I suggested 10/30... 15w/40 is the one to use in the UK.

IME 10/30 is semi synthetic, suited to modern car engines but is likely to 'glaze the bores' and make the engine smoke (worse than it does already...)

You may / will have trouble getting 15/40 from retail sources, but any good motor factor should  have some / get it for you, but you may have to buy a 25l drum. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Chipper.chica said:

Thanks guys! 

 

Should I just let the mechanic put his oil in? or is there a brand you know of that would be best? Should I check with the mechanic that he is going to use mineral oil? 

 

 

To be honest semi synthetic will be fine. We were all anal for years about mineral oil but many of us dont bother any more. Provided you make the engine work a little it will be fine. Remember any new clean oil will be better than the supposed correct oil that is old and contaminated.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

To be honest semi synthetic will be fine. We were all anal for years about mineral oil but many of us dont bother any more. Provided you make the engine work a little it will be fine. Remember any new clean oil will be better than the supposed correct oil that is old and contaminated.

Agreed - I believe that for tens of years any oil has been full of additives so could have been designates semi-synthetic. its only recently that the marketing bods have decided to describe it as such. I very much doubt the base oil is any different from API CC and much of the additivity pack will be similar.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who want to stick to traditional oils -Morris Oils.  Most traditional oils "drain" back to the engine sump (bottom of the engine) which means on start up there is less in the areas needing lubrication. One of the modern oil additives slows this drain so surfaces remain ready for instant starting. Obviouly helps the engine which is infrequently used/started. Basically the higer the second number the thicker it remains when hot. This will help older engines which due to wear the tolerances between surfaces may be greater than a new engine. It use to be a second hand car sales operation (those with questionable activities) where a "noisy" engine would have as thick an oil as possible to used to reduce those noise levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You've probably changed the engine oil by now, but if you are going to do it yourself in the future do look at the Morris lubricants site.

 

You can contact them to ask questions about oil suitability

https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/products/mar/classic-engine-oils/golden-film-sae-10w-40-classic-marine-oil.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To change the oil filter, this is perfect, easy removal you may need a few tools.

aldi / Lidl will sell sets at good price.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWO-WAY-OIL-FILTER-WRENCH-REMOVER-63-102mm-CAR-TOOL/373043910526?hash=item56db26577e:g:q7QAAOSw19Ncgrx6

You would only use something like that to remove the filter if you can't get it off by hand., but you put it on hand tight, by which I mean, screw it on slowly then when it is reasonably tight, give it a bit more, then give it quite a bit more, as much as  you reasonably can by hand, When you start the engine first time look into the engine to make sure all is well, I check the oil level before and after this first run.

 

The diesel engine is dead simple, but it takes a lot of courage to do the maintenance the first time around. 

There are no spark plugs because the diesel / air mix is heated when the pistons move up and down, compressing the fuel /air mix causes it to heat to the point of "explosion/ignition" [layman's term]

I have just changed s the oil filter, and the oil, the engine must be warm, else the oil will be too thick to drain properly.

You put the new filter [get them from auto places] on by hand AFTER putting some oil around the top black rubber seal in order to seal the rubber washer. The old filter will have a rubber washer, which will come off with the old filter, it is the washer which seals the filter, preventing ingress/leakage of air and oil.

Faced with an engine and no manual, I cleaned my engine with a cloth and some engine cleaner aka Gunk from an Auto shop, I used a toothbrush and paper towels, familiarising myself with the parts. The biggest part is the Engine Block, the oil is put in at the top, you use the dipstick to check the oil level is between marks, and you do this every day before you start the engine. 

The oil runs in "galleries" ie narrow holes around the engine block, also, as the piston go up and down the piston rings move a thin layer of oil around the bores of the cylinder, ie lubrication. Now you know as much as I do about engine lubrication. and how diesel engines work.

You should  go to Tony brooks's website,

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/

where the you will learn the right terms and the right way to approach the mechanics, Tony will help you, as will the other on here who know all about engines. 

Give it a go, once you have done one little thing, you will feel much more confident.

 

I have a spreadsheet and a wee book  where I record activities.

This is the engine log, showing the engine number, make / model, the oil filter number

oil spec used,

amount of oil used

engine hours since last change of oil and filter.

 

The fuel needs to be fresh and clean, keep a note of:

Fuel in tank

Fuel added

Fuel used

 estimated eg 1/3 litre per hour

Est. fuel left

When fuel last "cleaned" [annual]

When fuel filter last changed [annual]

ie pump out the diesel in to containers [get these cheap from car washes], settle, remove dirty stuff, add clean stuff. I like to keep tank above 1/3 full at all times.

Makes sure no water gets in to fuel via the filler.

 

NB I am not an expert, just showing you how I got in to the maintenance of my engine, I trust others will correct any obvious errors and omissions.

PS I use Morris 10 -40, it is American Petroleum Institute  API - CC give Morriss Oils  a ring if you want to be sure.

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/05/2020 at 12:37, Chipper.chica said:

Thanks guys! 

 

Should I just let the mechanic put his oil in? or is there a brand you know of that would be best? Should I check with the mechanic that he is going to use mineral oil? 

 

 

You could buy maybe 2x5l of your chosen oil, and use that unless the RCR guy will give you a few l for topping up, as you don't want to mix oils, imho.

These old style diesel engines are perfect for canal boats, but you should not use a modern synthetic oil for reasons explained before. I am not sure what oil RCR use, just ask them.

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my view the brand of the oil is of supreme unimportance as long as they are of a known reputable brand. That does not mean widely advertised brands, just brands that are widely distributed and known. You will find brands line Driveline that are virtually unknown to most people in trade outlets but they are well known in the trade. In any case there seems to be a lot of "relabelling" of oil from the major suppliers to suit specific retailers like Halfords, Wilko etc.

 

What is important is the API letters (CC, CD etc.) but I would not hesitate to mix oils of the same API spec. from different brands, even if they had different viscosities (SAE like 14W40) although I would always prefer to use the same SAE grade.

 

What is vital and the "don't mix brands" message may have sprung from this is that in days long gone some oils were vegetable based like Castrol R, those do not mix but unless you are into highly specialised engines you are very unlikely to come across such oils. You may find some tucked away in a shed or garage where a motorcyclist was adding it to the fuel to produce an "authentic" smell.

The additive packs mixed into oils are bought in and only supplied by a few (very few?) producers so there is unlikely to be much difference across brands.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎06‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 12:47, mrsmelly said:

To be honest semi synthetic will be fine. We were all anal for years about mineral oil but many of us dont bother any more. Provided you make the engine work a little it will be fine. Remember any new clean oil will be better than the supposed correct oil that is old and contaminated.

My Perkins 4108M, has run on Morris's HD15/40 for 15 years now. When I ran on purely mineral oil, between oil changes, I would use up to 2 litres topping up. On this oil I rarely top up, most times moving from full to 1/2 way down to the Min mark on the dipstick. The only smoke I get is when revving up to 1500 in reverse. Being the factory M marinised spec, it is governed to 2000rpm, so I can never really make it work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got the same engine as the OP and have used Wilkinson's mineral diesel engine oil for the past 15 years.  Mind you, I do stick rigidly to oil and filter changes and in addition flush out the oil every time (so use twice as much as just changing it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I've got the same engine as the OP and have used Wilkinson's mineral diesel engine oil for the past 15 years.  Mind you, I do stick rigidly to oil and filter changes and in addition flush out the oil every time (so use twice as much as just changing it).

 

Do you mean the shops known as Wilco If I remember correctly they do a CC oil I have a feeling it is in tin cans  https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-5l-20w50-classic-car-oil/p/0342792

 

image.png.03e26d09518935d3781d31abbce3f907.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I've got the same engine as the OP and have used Wilkinson's mineral diesel engine oil for the past 15 years.  Mind you, I do stick rigidly to oil and filter changes and in addition flush out the oil every time (so use twice as much as just changing it).

I have read on the www that Wilkos oil is supplied by Morris, but then again not everything that you read on the www is true. ?

 

I have been using Morris Duplex CDX 15:40 for ages, trouble is it only comes in 25litre cans. Its a mixed fleet petrol/diesel oil and meets the more recent specs (CG/CH?) but the Morris technical people say its has a less severe additive pack so is much less likely to give bore glazing.

 

............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...
8 minutes ago, dmr said:

That's less than the size of just one pot on a proper engine ?

 

Nice little engine though.  I used to have one on the Nauticus, and it did have the benefit of fitting in the fixed size engine hole!

 

22 hp through an Enfield Z-Drive, and a touch overpropped for the canals.  Great fun on rivers though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Nice little engine though.  I used to have one on the Nauticus, and it did have the benefit of fitting in the fixed size engine hole!

 

22 hp through an Enfield Z-Drive, and a touch overpropped for the canals.  Great fun on rivers though.

That's almost as much power as all the pots put together on a proper engine ?

 

but then a modern automotive 1litre 3 pot would likely produce over 100 horsepower.

 

...............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.