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Laura p

Sinking dream

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Hi everyone I’m really new to this and having a dream turned to night mare and looking for any kind of suggestions, contacts or help, 2 years ago my grandad  bought a 47ft narrow boat it had always been hes dream shortly after he got very sick and passed away, my grandma was left with the boat and tried to have the boat  repaired to keep the dream of my grandads alive, but sadly got sick also and passed away, my mum has now tried to sort this boat out and a cow boy builder has wrecked the boat and destroyed all that was left and robbed money and a lot of expensive equipment off the boat, all we have left is a sinking boat with a lister engine, my mum who has suffered a stroke through the stress of it all is wanting to completely make over this boat and get her up and running and back a float please please can any one help? Thank u in advance 

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Sorry to hear of your problems but at the current time pretty much all of the boat yards are closed, if it not actually sinking I'd suggest you secure it the best way you can and wait until the virus has gone and the boating businesses open up again, then, get it lifted out chocked up on the 'hard' and get it surveyed and see what needs doing.

  • Greenie 1

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Thank you for ur reply but been told it will be thousands to pull it out of the water is this true? I know with everything going on things will have to wait, it’s just the advice and getting things for the ready of this lockdown to be lifted. thank u again 

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According to your profile the boat is at adlington. I would suggest a chat with Carl at Botany Bay boatyard.  It will be a couple of hundred pounds for the boat to be craned out there and they may have room on their hard standing forthe boat whilst its repaired 

  • Greenie 1

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Thank u so much for ur reply, yes it’s Adlington, I will definitely do that! Thank u again I hope I can get this sorted 

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It is so sad to hear what your family have been through and I know trying to sort this out now is going to add some additional pressure.

 

As has been said, if the boat is not actually sinking then just try and make it as secure as you can and keep yourself safe until the restrictions in movement are lifted.

 

Sadly there are a few rogues out there and there are a lot more people who mean well but maybe lack the experience of a good reliable boatyard with time served experience.

 

I am glad you have joined the forum because there is a wealth of knowledge here and a lot of people who will do what they can to offer advice even if they can't physically help you. Please remember that advice that is offered is just one person's opinion and there is often more than one way to skin a cat! People will want to help if they can though.

 

Please continue to keep us posted on how you are getting on and any specific challenges you are faced with.  As much as I admire you and your mum for doing your best to try and get the boat done in the memory of your grandad I think it might be that you all try and step back a little from the situation and take a hard look at where you are up to.

 

Obviously it is wonderful that your family thought so highly of your grandad they have tried to push on and get the project finished but for a moment think about the end, once the boat is done, all fitted out and resplendent with a shiny coat of paint and a running engine. Who will use it? Will your mum be able to handle it on her own and if not who will go with her? Who will continue to maintain it? Service the engine and carry out the myriad of little jobs that are constantly needing doing to keep a boat working and looking good.  Who will afford the mooring fees, licence and insurance every year on top of the inevitable cost of replacing bits that die - a water pump here, an alternator there etc. Boats are very expensive to keep going and if your family will benefit from being able to use that boat then that's great but please consider whether the great dream of having this boat and going off on little jaunts in the sunshine might partially be a bit of a pipe dream? Families are busy, people have jobs to do and the sun doesn't always shine. How much time would the boat really get used and how much will it cost to have it sitting idly waiting for you all to have time (and the right weather) to use it?

 

Yes there has already been significant investment in this boat, not just financially but also in blood sweat tears and stress. As hard as it might be to even consider this right now you might find that rather than throw a lot more money at a boat that has already cost you so much it will be easier to simply cut your losses and sell it on as it is, drawing a line under the stressful situation and getting on with enjoying your lives in whatever way suits you best.

 

Ask yourself what Grandad would want you to do

 

Whatever you decide do feel free to ask here for advice.

  • Greenie 4

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Hi Laura and welcome to the forum, and sorry that you have found your way here in such horrible circumstances. My condolences for your losses and we realise that you and your mum will be lost in all of this and just need a bit of advice and pointers. If you could help with a little bit of information about the boat people may well be able to help by pointing out dry-docks, cranes, capable yards / workers etc. nearby.

 

The key question would be, do you know what needs doing to the boat? Was there a survey done, where your grandad was going to address the problems it raised or are the problems plainly self-evident. Are the major problems engine, hull, electrics, windows or a bit of everything? Were any words like 'overplating' or 'engine rebuild' mentioned? They are expensive words.

 

What type of work was the 'cowboy builder' supposed to be doing before he did a runner? When you say a lot of expensive stuff has been taken, what type of things are they. If it's some nice brass lamps they can be lived without, but if it's the gearbox, the boat's going nowhere without it.

 

I'm slightly confused when the thread title says 'sinking' but at the end of post #1 you say you want to get it back afloat. I was assuming that you were meaning that it was in the canal already, in a state where it needs attention, and the 'back afloat' meaning in decent usable condition. Is it correct that it is in the water at present? Talk has been made of getting it out onto the hardstanding to work on it. This may be necessary for some of the work but the boat is going to have to be able to move at least to a place where it cold be craned out.

 

Are you practical minded yourself with the time to do any of the work. If you can do some of the basics like sanding and painting, it won't be the aesthetic standards of a professional job but it will save a lot of money and be acceptable. 

 

Whatever the boat needs, even if it doesn't need to come out of the water for work to the steel, it will probably be well overdue for drydocking and blacking. Doing the blacking yourself can save several hundred quid. However, spots for dry-docks are usually booked well in advance and this lockdown will have caused much disruption to their calendars.

 

Please don't despair about the situation. If we work out what questions need asking, we can work out what issues need fixing and where you might be able to find skilled and reliable assistance without breaking the bank.

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10 hours ago, Laura p said:

my mum who has suffered a stroke through the stress of it all is wanting to completely make over this boat and get her up and running and back a float

 

Could you clarify please, is the boat floating at the moment, or is it sunken and sitting on the bottom?

 

Many thanks.

 

And if you could give a general area, there may well be people here who are local and willing to give practical help.

 

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Although local boatyards may be closed, if this is an emergency, someone may be able to help you, There must be some flexibility in the system. 

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20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

And if you could give a general area, there may well be people here who are local and willing to give practical help.

 

Laura mentions that the boat is at Adlington, which is on the Leeds & Liverpool Canal. Google (really!) tells me that there is a marina there called White Bear, which might be a first port of call.

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16 minutes ago, Athy said:

Laura mentions that the boat is at Adlington, which is on the Leeds & Liverpool Canal. Google (really!) tells me that there is a marina there called White Bear, which might be a first port of call.

There's also the village of Adlington on the Macc with Lyme View marina nearby. Both Adlingtons are close to Manchester. We do need to ask the right questions!

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15 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

There's also the village of Adlington on the Macc with Lyme View marina nearby. Both Adlingtons are close to Manchester. We do need to ask the right questions!

In view of that information, we do need the right answer too. Laura, which Adlington is it?

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There is a duplicate thread in the Equipment section which it might be worth a Moderator locking as this one is getting the traffic.

10 hours ago, Laura p said:

been told it will be thousands to pull it out of the water is this true?

In the hundreds, not thousands to lift a boat out and put it back in typically, not thousands. Any work actually needing doing while it is out is more obviously. This assumes it is floating. When you say "sinking", has it sunk? Is it capable of being moved under its own power?

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3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There is a duplicate thread in the Equipment section which it might be worth a Moderator locking as this one is getting the traffic.

 

Well spotted!

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Thank you for ur replies, yes we loved on the boat for six months and me and my family used it when ever it was possible and it was moored at white bear marina before all this happened we’ve had to move down to get the work done, that’s when the nightmare started and now has been left in a state, a gentelman is looking after itc we we t yesterday and it’s floating it’s just got a tiny bit of water cause by a slight hole in the side, it has a lister engine which been told it’s a really good one, but it’s been disconnected from the stared  switch, there is then nothing on the boat except for dodgy wood works the cowboy left and the fire is left in the middle of the floor which is rusting due to the boat previously sinking, we hires a pump to get the large amount of water out, it’s been left for 6 months to a year one that and now my mum is pulling her head out the sand and getting it done, we have all the insurance and licenses as mum  was supposed to be    lived on the boat with Her husband  this cowboy come in but we know how to moved it and do toilet the water ect.. it was great living before few bits went wrong and that’s when my grandma paid to get it sorted, she passed  away and cowboy got off and now boat is there and we want her sad state to get fixed not cut a loss as it’s not just cutting a loss it’s the memories and they are also supposed to live on 

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1 hour ago, Laura p said:

Thank you for ur replies, yes we loved on the boat for six months and me and my family used it when ever it was possible and it was moored at white bear marina before all this happened we’ve had to move down to get the work done, that’s when the nightmare started and now has been left in a state, a gentelman is looking after itc we we t yesterday and it’s floating it’s just got a tiny bit of water cause by a slight hole in the side, it has a lister engine which been told it’s a really good one, but it’s been disconnected from the stared  switch, there is then nothing on the boat except for dodgy wood works the cowboy left and the fire is left in the middle of the floor which is rusting due to the boat previously sinking, we hires a pump to get the large amount of water out, it’s been left for 6 months to a year one that and now my mum is pulling her head out the sand and getting it done, we have all the insurance and licenses as mum  was supposed to be    lived on the boat with Her husband  this cowboy come in but we know how to moved it and do toilet the water ect.. it was great living before few bits went wrong and that’s when my grandma paid to get it sorted, she passed  away and cowboy got off and now boat is there and we want her sad state to get fixed not cut a loss as it’s not just cutting a loss it’s the memories and they are also supposed to live on 

Hi Laura and thanks for replying with the info. A lot of people ask a question and never come back to read or reply. I've highlighted some parts that are crucial to any plans you may have to move forwards.

 

If you are doing this for the sentimental value, and it turns out that the necessary work is major then you may have to accept that the cost may be well in excess of the final value of the boat, especially if you aren't able to do much of the work yourself, and that's in addition to the ongoing cost of licensing, mooring or hardstanding while it cannot be used.

 

The words 'slight hole in the side' send panic into any steel boat owner's mind. Does this mean a hole on / under the waterline that is letting canal water into the boat's bilges? One corrosion hole could mean many more waiting to break through and the thought of overplating the steel is daunting from a cost and scale perspective. This would really need a professional surveyor or boatyard to view it in drydock / hoist to assess what kind of work needs doing to the steel. It could be that this would make the project a non-viable one for someone with no sentimental attachment to the craft. 

 

It sounds as though the boat has been stripped out and any refit barely started so this would be getting expensive just from a materials point of view. Actual fitting out takes many hundreds of hours in labour on top.

 

When you mention 'the boat previously sinking' was the engine submerged, has it been run since or has it just been left? Was the sinking due to the leak in the side previously mentioned? This is obviously important as you will need to be able to move to somewhere that can perform any necessary works to the hull. If you can't get the hull sorted before throwing thousands at the engine you may have to question the amount that you want to spend on the project.

 

We realise that you aren't someone who has bought a project boat on a whim, it's been a family boat that you want to bring back up to decent usable condition. Hopefully the forum can help so that you are able to move forward with it once restrictions are lifted a bit.

 

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Firstly, hello and welcome to the forum, we and the members will do all we can to help I am sure. 

The moderator staff have 'hidden' the other two topic thread, so that all replies are kept together on this one topic thread.

 

Others, and BilgePump's recently reply above covers all the key aspects. 

 

If the boat in in the early stages of a complete re-fit having sunk previously, then as said it is likely that the cost if not doing the work yourself will be significant, and depending on the level of fitout required, and as said may well be more than the boat is worth once complete.

 

However the important thing as this stage is to make sure things do not get any worse. If there is a hole in the boat, in the hull below the waterline, they the boat will sink again quickly without at least a temporary repair and or regular pumping out. You should not have any holds, and even a small one will sink a boat quickly. If the hole is higher up, or filling with rain water, this might be slightly less urgent but also import to get right.

 

If the engine has been under water, and has not been run or turned on since then, this is also an urgent thing to sort at, because if it is looked at fairly quickly it will be able to be saved, by removing all of the water from inside, drying it out, and putting new oil etc into it. However if it has been allowed to sit full of water it could quickly become damaged beyond repair and be another cost in finding a replacement engine. 

 

Do you have any photos of the boat, on a computer or your phone, facebook etc, which you could share so we can see what we are working with?

 


Thanks

Daniel

 

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A lot depends on the cause of the hole. Corrosion = well dodgy. Collision or fretting damage might be OK. Ingress from a skin fitting, stern gland or from an air vent near water level should be fixable.

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I hesitate to make an alternative suggestion and hope its not an upsetting idea but I am touched by your story and my sister was in a slightly similar position.

Not wanting to get rid of a boat that had meant a lot to her but not practical to spend thousands on it, even if she had that sort of money she came up with a solution.. She had space in the garden of her house and had the boat brought by road and put on blocks.  It did cost, but not anywhere near as much as repairing and keeping it on the water. Over the years she made it into a delightful guest room.  Now you may of course not have such a space but I thought I would mention it.  I do hope you receive some of the good luck that you are certainly due.

  • Greenie 1

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Well Laura, first reading your posts i am so sorry but also happy. Sorry for all the problems and stress you have had over the times. I cant imagine what its like for you. And the happy, well you are doing what you can to save the boat for memories and what was wanting to be done by the dear departed.  Its not often i read through a lot on here but for some reason i had to go on once i started reading your OP. 

I live in Manchester but i am mobile so not far away in anyway. and i offer services to folk that need help with there boats of all kinds. I have even floated boats in the past, but thankfully yours is not sat on the bottom.   

 

If i can help i can be found by private message or here, just contact me and ask and all i can do is help or give advice on what i know or maybe give you a contact.  

 

https://www.facebook.com/waynesboatworkservices/

 

All best with it and hope all is well, you wont regret saving it and memories ;)

 

Wayne

 

( Captain Faffer  :) 

  • Greenie 3

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On 17/04/2020 at 22:00, jonathanA said:

According to your profile the boat is at adlington. I would suggest a chat with Carl at Botany Bay boatyard.  It will be a couple of hundred pounds for the boat to be craned out there and they may have room on their hard standing forthe boat whilst its repaired 

 

I completely missed this thread somehow.

 

Karl's not at Botany Bay anymore - he's in Northwich now, and has been for a couple of years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Laura. Sorry to hear about your stresses. 

Having a bit of a rotten and holey boat myself (sorted now thankfully) all I can recommend from my experience is get it out of water as soon as you can and on hard standing if this is possible for you. 

 

I had a lot of my hull cut out and replaced. I was originally quoted £12000 to do the work by a marine company (or rip off merchants, not sure as I never called them back) but luckily found a marine welder that charged a day rate of £200 per day. For the completed job it comes to £1300 for his labour. I had steel on board already which I provided. 

Bare in mind the area I'm in is expensive so you may find cheaper, just don't be afraid to ask for references, insurance etc. There is a lot of cowboy welders around! 

 

May sound like a chore to find a good welder but if you are on any Boatyard with steel boats around then someone will bound to be able to recommend a welder, even the yard themselves! 

 

Really in my opinion I find the hull the scariest bit of boat maintenance and really the most difficult when it goes wrong.

Another option is to get quoted on having the hull overplated, though a lot of people have mixed opinions on this and I do find it better myself to have sections cut out and replaced. 

 

Once the scary stuff is out the way and the hull treated you can have a good project doing bits yourself and chip away at the work. Don't be too put off and it sounds like a great boat. 

 

For now if you can't get it out of water, try and get some putty over the hole as a temporary fix, stop water getting in. Sounds funny but there is a guy we know of who springs a lot of leaks on his boat and by now I think half of it is just putty lol. 

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Just for added info, here one of the smallest parts that was cut and welded with new steel. Our boat had rotted from water from the inside, not the outside. 

This is from work done back in March. Since then boat has a new top and exterior, along with roofing and windows. Getting ready for a fit out in the next week or 2.

IMG_20200317_072341.jpg

Edited by Alpha95

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1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Its a double six!!!!   Boat worth twice as much now.

TD'

Haha indeed. When we bought this boat it had many strange discoveries inside it, and outside covered in domino's lol. 

Luckily it's all cleaned and empty now, though our trailer is now full of rubbish and the tip won't let us on with it 

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