Infringement of human rights...or not?

[dmr]

36 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Or more worryingly, 

 

Dear Mr Smith, we notice you have been buying an average of 88 units of alcohol per week for the last 12 months. We believe you may be drinking this so until you reduce your alcohol purchases to below the recommended 21 units a week, your driving licence will not be renewed. 

 

This sort of thing is what's in store for us once we allow unfettered collection of data about us. 

That's not a prediction its already a fact. Went to the Co-op recently and they gave me a couple of 50p off vouchers, one was for any Thatchers product, the other for Brewdog.

 

Trying to get a bit healthier in case I get the virus so am now drinking almost within the government guidelines, but using the 1979 version.

 

This is an interesting read: (and relates to Government control)............

 

https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/the-great-alcohol-cover-up-how-public-health-bodies-hid-the-truth-about-drinking/

 

................Dave

[Rickent]

2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

Going about your lawful business? You are happy to carry a plotting app around as a statement of that fact? And, every time you inadvertently go over the speed limit, you receive a notice to pay a fine. I think people who like to offer the authorities such information on a 24hr basis are the same people who'd be less likely to notice the chipping away of democratic rights. You'd have already started, by giving up your right to be assumed innocent. Using your rationale, in reverse, why would you need to be tracked? 

 

 

 

 

I don't need to be tracked, as I said if you are not breaking the law then what's the problem, maybe cctv is wrong as well.

[Jennifer McM]

I don't have a problem when used with something positive like alerting people who's been in close contact with the virus., so long as I can turn the app off. But then again, what am I scared of? I'm no spy, and I'm not 'one the run'.... 

 

Heard a good idea heard today, those kids who're being a pain and rebelling against Gov's advice, perhaps their mobiles should be switched off..... that would stir the pot! ?

[Rickent]

Everybody who has a smartphone can be tracked, do these people bemoaning a lack of civil liberty have Alexa in their homes or boats? That is a whole new level of invasion.

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, churchward said:

Such Apps seem to have played a big factor in S.Korea's success in suppressing the spread of the virus. Over all it could be a very good thing particularly in denser population areas.

 

I am not so sure for ongoing monitoring of boat movement. However, data on phone movement is available now it is jus not public. Google and other companies collect this kind of information as we move about with our smartphones..

 

 

Yes, the monthly Google report can sometimes be fascinating. However, it dos show that at times it is very erratic and could not be relied upon as evidence.

[tree monkey]

Just now, Rickent said:

I don't need to be tracked, as I said if you are not breaking the law then what's the problem, maybe cctv is wrong as well.

The problem is, I don't want to be tracked, it's not an issue of not breaking the law because don't, at least as far as I am aware, the odd few mph over the speed limit aside.

Personally I also dislike CCTV as well but the nation seems to accept them, so I know I am in the minority there.

[Rickent]

Just now, tree monkey said:

The problem is, I don't want to be tracked, it's not an issue of not breaking the law because don't, at least as far as I am aware, the odd few mph over the speed limit aside.

Personally I also dislike CCTV as well but the nation seems to accept them, so I know I am in the minority there.

I totally understand what you are saying and I don't have any desire to have my every move watched , but everyone's movements can be tracked via their mobile phone. It's already happening. 

[tree monkey]

1 minute ago, Rickent said:

Everybody who has a smartphone can be tracked, do these people bemoaning a lack of civil liberty have Alexa in their homes or boats? That is a whole new level of invasion.

No Alexa, removed from the phone, gps and location tracking switched off, I accept the other smartphone issues because I made the choice to accept them.

Also no credit cards, no store cards.

 

1 minute ago, Rickent said:

I totally understand what you are saying and I don't have any desire to have my every move watched , but everyone's movements can be tracked via their mobile phone. It's already happening. 

I know this but that's a reason to refuse to accept more not give in

[Rickent]

Just now, tree monkey said:

No Alexa, removed from the phone, gps and location tracking switched off, I accept the other smartphone issues because I made the choice to accept them.

Also no credit cards, no store cards.

 

Everytime you move about your phone checks in with each mobile mast as you move from one to another, this is how your movement can already be tracked,  irrespective of you turning a few functions on your phone off.

[tree monkey]

Just now, Rickent said:

Everytime you move about your phone checks in with each mobile mast as you move from one to another, this is how your movement can already be tracked,  irrespective of you turning a few functions on your phone off.

I know, it still doesn't mean I want more

[Rickent]

Just now, tree monkey said:

I know, it still doesn't mean I want more

I appreciate that and totally understand , but my point is that it's already happening.

[tree monkey]

3 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I appreciate that and totally understand , but my point is that it's already happening.

We are going round in circles

I know honestly governor, I know

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Everybody who has a smartphone can be tracked, do these people bemoaning a lack of civil liberty have Alexa in their homes or boats? That is a whole new level of invasion.

Even wifi door camera systems, smart TVs  baby alarms and Alexa in the bedroom listening to every word and sound

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Everybody who has a smartphone can be tracked, do these people bemoaning a lack of civil liberty have Alexa in their homes or boats? That is a whole new level of invasion.

 

Never mind Alexa, at least you deliberately installed her.

 

Way back on here there was a poster saying they had Dutch guests come to stay, and immediately he started seeing ads on his facebook feed in Dutch language. Now that can only have been the sneaky bar steward Siri listening in the house and reporting back.

 

 

3 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

We are going round in circles

 

Triangles, surely?

 

 

[Higgs]

29 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I don't need to be tracked, as I said if you are not breaking the law then what's the problem, maybe cctv is wrong as well.

 

No problem, you don't need to be tracked. CCTV is a fill-in for lack of manpower resources through cut-backs. 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Higgs

[tree monkey]

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Never mind Alexa, at least you deliberately installed her.

 

Way back on here there was a poster saying they had Dutch guests come to stay, and immediately he started seeing ads on his facebook feed in Dutch language. Now that can only have been the sneaky bar steward Siri listening in the house and reporting back.

 

 

 

Triangles, surely?

 

 

Whatever it is, I am sure they can see me doing it

[Higgs]

32 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Everybody who has a smartphone can be tracked, do these people bemoaning a lack of civil liberty have Alexa in their homes or boats? That is a whole new level of invasion.

 

I don't have some of those things, and go out without the phone. Are you suggesting people who don't have a mobile phone should be forced to have one, so they could be tracked?

 

No, forget that. Wrong reading of your post. 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Higgs

[Phil.]

It’s not just phones, the ANPR network tracks tens of millions of vehicle journeys every day, and most, not all but most ANPR cameras, take a nice little picture of the vehicle occupants for posterity.

[1st ade]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes agreed but I dont think the UK electorate is stoopid

Based on what recent evidence?

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

Based on what recent evidence?

 

I can think of two events, in the last four years. 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

16 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I can think of two events, in the last four years. 

 

 

You and I and the rest of the majority can 

[MoominPapa]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Not sure if this has been covered in one of the other CV threads but....what do peep here think of the proposed Apps to work out if you are near a CV confirmed case?

Lots of talk in the press in other countries about introducing Apps that trace where you are and alert you if you are too near confirmed cases. There is an NHS one being developed but it looks like the proposal is for an 'opt-in' system. I would defo opt in as I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives (ie big brother knows where you are at all times - the human rights supporters would be dead against this). One big negative may be seen (not by me) as the CRT know where everyone is as well (not only their botes). The 14 day rule...when it comes back.....? (hence posting it general boating rather than the pub).

I'd like to see such an App being at least an opt out ...if not essential if you want to leave your home, on the assumption that they would discontinue monitoring once this is all over.

What do peeps here think?

The systems which Google and Apple and various academic researchers are proposing do NOT provide for a central database of where everyone is at all times (but Google (and I assume Apple) do already run such things: Google sends me a link once a month where I can look at all the places I have been on a website.)

 

The basic protocol for the contact tracing is that phones broadcast a random number, generated by the  phone, and records the other random numbers being broadcast by nearby phones. If you are diagnosed as Covid+, you tell your phone, which uploads the number it's been broadcasting to a central website. Everyone's phone downloads the list of Covid+ numbers from the central site regularyly and compares it to the numbers it has stored of phones that have been nearby: a match generates a warning. The random numbers are changed regularly to make long-term tracking of the phone difficult.

 

MP.

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

In answer to that. We need far more cameras and everybodies DNA should be taken at a specified age. It always makes me laugh when people kick back against stuff when they already have passports, driving licences, credit cards and masses of other stuff anyway. Nowt to hide, nowt to worry about. 

So, if we need far more cameras, would you be quite content that whenever you put your computer/smartphone on(if you have one) that the camera is automatically activated and everything that you do or say is recorded for posterity and accessed by whoever may want to see it, from your local constabulary to Amazon? That is essentially what you are signing up to with your acceptance of 24/7 monitoring.

 

I will accept monitoring within the public arena, you cannot expect privacy in public, but I will not accept surveillance within the private realm unless it is for a specific, identified purpose and properly authorised.

 

As far as the original point regarding the app goes, it is all academic to me since, along with another poster here, I don't have a smartphone, my 'dumb' Nokia 6300 does all I need a phone to do (like talk to people), everything else is on the laptop which has Cortana disabled, I don't use Google and would rather saw off my own leg with a rusty saw than have something like Alexa in the same building as I am. I also spend a bit of time disabling the various means that Microsoft have of wheedling their way into things that are nothing to do with them.

[Machpoint005]

4 hours ago, Higgs said:

I don't even know what my blood group is. 

 

I might have guessed you were not a blood donor. That's nothing to be proud of.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Rickent said:

Everytime you move about your phone checks in with each mobile mast as you move from one to another, this is how your movement can already be tracked,  irrespective of you turning a few functions on your phone off.

 

Not if you turn your phone off, or leave it at home, as I said earlier. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Machpoint005
.

[Higgs]

50 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

I might have guessed you were not a blood donor. That's nothing to be proud of.

 

What exactly does that prove, in your tiny mind?