Infringement of human rights...or not?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

Apps that trace where you are and alert you if you are too near confirmed cases.

 

I'm pretty sure I've read the Asian app doesn't do that. I think it alerts the authorities who then come and isolate you and you don't gets no choice.

 

They also look up everyone you've been less than 2m from before they caught up with you and isolate them too. So they really do lock it down. 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

every time you inadvertently go over the speed limit

 

Drive more slowly, then.

[Higgs]

11 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Drive more slowly, then.

 

Someone like you would be amongst the first to fall foul of that proposition. 

 

 

[Dr Bob]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm pretty sure I've read the Asian app doesn't do that. I think it alerts the authorities who then come and isolate you and you don't gets no choice.

 

They also look up everyone you've been less than 2m from before they caught up with you and isolate them too. So they really do lock it down. 

 

 

I guess that is the sort of app that is the 'ultimate'. I cant see 'western' countries taking such drastic action but that's how they are keeping the virus under control. They are doing this in Singapore (our daughter is working there so we are getting regular updates).

It's refreshing to see then that most peeps on here would accept an App (where they have a smart phone!!!!!) for the short term problem.?....as long as it is only for the short term.

[tree monkey]

12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Drive more slowly, then.

That's an easy thing to say but can you honestly tell me you have never done 31 in a 30 or similar at what point does the automatic fine/points kick in, it's far far to easy to say slow down.

 

An example, our works vans are monitored, recently I was behind a lorry weaving over 2 lanes, so when it was safe I pulled out and went past as quickly as I sensibly could, opps 75mph briefly,  transport was happy with my explanation, should I have been fined?

[Higgs]

35 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

That's an easy thing to say but can you honestly tell me you have never done 31 in a 30 or similar at what point does the automatic fine/points kick in, it's far far to easy to say slow down.

 

An example, our works vans are monitored, recently I was behind a lorry weaving over 2 lanes, so when it was safe I pulled out and went past as quickly as I sensibly could, opps 75mph briefly,  transport was happy with my explanation, should I have been fined?

 

At 75mph on the clock, you would not have been doing 70mph actual speed. Check it out, when your speed is registered on one of those LED speed signs, or satnavs. The speedo is usually only calibrated to read 110% of your speed. Can't say I've tested every car.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Higgs

[1st ade]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

At 75mph on the clock, you would not have been doing 70mph actual speed. Check it out, when your speed is registered on one of those LED speed signs, or satnavs. The speedo is usually only calibrated to read 90% of your speed.  

 

 

Other way - they usually over read... (mine says 70 when doing about 66)

[tree monkey]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

At 75mph on the clock, you would not have been doing 70mph actual speed. Check it out, when your speed is registered on one of those LED speed signs, or satnavs. The speedo is usually only calibrated to read 90% of your speed.  

 

 

Yeah, I tend to use the tom tom, it was 75,  transport also reported 75

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

Yeah, I tend to use the tom tom, it was 75,  transport also reported 75

 

If your TomTom read 75mph, I'd say that was correct. 

 

 

[GUMPY]

I wonder how many Android users on here have disabled location information in google maps?

My Timeline goes back at least five years almost every location I have been to recorded not always accurately

 

[mrsmelly]

53 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The problem is not what data the govt of TODAY do with the data they are gathering about us, its what happens 10 or 20 years in the future when we get the hard right fascist or hard left communist government grab power in a coup or heavily manipulated general election. 

 

Now you have a malevolent administration trawling through all the places you went, phone calls you made, websites you browsed, looking for 'thought crimes' you committed in the past, marking you out as a candidate for arrest and interrogation. 

 

And all because you bought into that "I have nothing to hide so why shouldn't they record everything I do?" argument.

 

 

 

In answer to that. We need far more cameras and everybodies DNA should be taken at a specified age. It always makes me laugh when people kick back against stuff when they already have passports, driving licences, credit cards and masses of other stuff anyway. Nowt to hide, nowt to worry about. 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Nowt to hide, nowt to worry about. 

 

Completely failed to understand my point!

 

 

[tree monkey]

14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I wonder how many Android users on here have disabled location information in google maps?

My Timeline goes back at least five years almost every location I have been to recorded not always accurately

 

Yup I have

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Completely failed to understand my point!

 

 

I fully understand your point but its bunkum ? total and utter scaremongering bunkum.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I fully understand your point but its bunkum ? total and utter scaremongering bunkum.

 

Only if you believe an extremist government could never grab power here in the UK. 

 

You must have a very powerful crystal ball. 

 

 

 

[Higgs]

10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

In answer to that. We need far more cameras and everybodies DNA should be taken at a specified age. It always makes me laugh when people kick back against stuff when they already have passports, driving licences, credit cards and masses of other stuff anyway. Nowt to hide, nowt to worry about. 

 

Each of those specific forms of identification are for specific uses. I have a birth certificate, it is occasionally needed. I go to the supermarket, get cashback, and then, use cash at nearly every other place. I have an out-of-date passport, it is what it is, but out-of-date, it isn't that much use. There is absolutely no need to go any further with ID devices. 

 

Nowt to hide, therefore, no one has any need to have my DNA. I don't even know what my blood group is. 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Only if you believe an extremist government could never grab power here in the UK. 

 

You must have a very powerful crystal ball. 

 

 

 

I doubt it could Mike. I do see your point but its not the 1930s and Adolf is dead. I think the British electorate are more on the ball than many places,  as recently seen in 2016 and again last year.  I see nobody at present who could oust our mid right government. The weirdos who keep springing up and have a following for a while are soon seen through and squashed such as Nick Griffin for one.

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

I doubt it could Mike. I do see your point but its not the 1930s and Adolf is dead. I think the British electorate are more on the ball than many places,  as recently seen in 2016 and again last year.  I see nobody at present who could oust our mid right government. The weirdos who keep springing up and have a following for a while are soon seen through and squashed such as Nick Griffin for one.

 

I don't think you really believe that. You've just voted on the return of control to the UK. 

 

 

[dmr]

Its probably got to happen in the current crisis, trouble is once you let a genie out of a bottle you can never get the bugger back in. The information will eventually be used by the police, the NHS and Google for very targeted advertising.

 

Dear Mr Smith, we note that you only leave your house twice a week and that's to go to the pub, so no medical treatment for you, but would you be interested in  our free alcohol delivery service? ?

 

..............Dave

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I don't think you really believe that. You've just voted on the return of control to the UK. 

 

 

Yes agreed but I dont think the UK electorate is stoopid. Better the UK to have control rather than unelected from elsewhere but this isnt the politics sub forum so best end it here thinking about it.

[Higgs]

Just now, dmr said:

Its probably got to happen in the current crisis, trouble is once you let a genie out of a bottle you can never get the bugger back in. The information will eventually be used by the police, the NHS and Google for very targeted advertising.

 

Dear Mr Smith, we note that you only leave your house twice a week and that's to go to the pub, so no medical treatment for you, but would you be interested in  our free alcohol delivery service? ?

 

..............Dave

 

Would the device be useful to help you know when it is safe to walk closer to someone than the advised social distancing, or, couldn't you just maintain that distance anyway? 

 

 

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes agreed but I dont think the UK electorate is stoopid. Better the UK to have control rather than unelected from elsewhere but this isnt the politics sub forum so best end it here thinking about it.

 

Not stupid, but overly trusting or unwary. You know where that leads to. If we had 100% trust, in the end, we would have gone further into giving up autonomy. People should be allowed their free will. The only reason we tend to go down this road of ID is, because of cut-backs. to the point of requiring things to fill the gap. 

 

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Dear Mr Smith, we note that you only leave your house twice a week and that's to go to the pub, so no medical treatment for you, but would you be interested in  our free alcohol delivery service? ?

 

..............Dave

 

 

Or more worryingly, 

 

Dear Mr Smith, we notice you have been buying an average of 88 units of alcohol per week for the last 12 months. We believe you may be drinking this so until you reduce your alcohol purchases to below the recommended 21 units a week, your driving licence will not be renewed. 

 

This sort of thing is what's in store for us once we allow unfettered collection of data about us. 

[Quattrodave]

A few years back I worked at a data centre that compiled 'Big Data'. Basically they stored and organised anonymous general data. However when you run some clever algorithms the data would be pieced together. The results were truly terrifying! I dare say its improved somewhat, I got out of that as soon as I could.  The uk already holds the highest percentage of cctv cameras per capita!!

[magpie patrick]

In considering civil liberties, it's also necessary to consider the direction of travel of a state - Both China and South Korea are backing off from very high levels of surveilance so that fact they currently use more than we do is hardly a surprise, what we need to watch is we don't pass them in the opposite direction. There are also cultural factors as to what is and isn't acceptable - admittedly it was twenty years ago that I was in South Korea and China (one after the other) and then in South Korea the legal regime around relationships was more restrictive (a man having an affair could expect the wrath of the authorities, not just his wife) whereas in China so long as you only had one kid they really weren't worried about the paperwork - these attitudes of both state and social intervention pervaded most areas of life in each country

 

In France at the moment friends advise you must print off and fill out a form to leave the house, that form states where you are going and why - but this in the context of a country that fifty years ago made hotels collect details of their guests and the police would regularly collect those details.

Our history is pretty much "do as you wish but do no harm" so as a people we need to consider how data collection fits in with that, although in some ways the horse has left the stable and run several times round the track already!

Edited April 11, 2020 by magpie patrick