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CompairHolman

The misuse of rust converters. The Vactan myth.

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10 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

 

Is Rust Converter Harmful If Ingested?

Yes, Rust Converter contains tannic acid. You should immediately get medical attention.

 

https://www.promain.co.uk/blog/rust-converter-faqs/

Obviously luckily for me I have not watched the latest canal blog "Killer Canals with Kris" where he invites his fellow moorers round for a cup of tannic acid and homebaked rubber fenders.

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25 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Pretty sure that tannic acid rust converters are not safe for drinking water. 

You do know that Vactan is considered safe for potable water as per their website ?? That’s without overcoating.

 

edited to add quote from website 

 

“Vactan has been tested and certified as fit for use for the carriage of grain and use in potable water systems.  It may also be used in sensitive foodstuff areas.“

Edited by frangar
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9 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Microscopic oxides left over from wire brushing pitted steel don't need to be converted, the paint system excludes the oxygen and stops any further rusting. 

 

When you say it worked very well what do you mean , what did it actually do that just painting didn't ?

Is Rust Converter Harmful If Ingested?

Yes, Rust Converter contains tannic acid. You should immediately get medical attention.

 

https://www.promain.co.uk/blog/rust-converter-faqs/

 

Are you absolutely sure about that?

 

Some years ago we had a very hard winter with show frozen onto the roofs of our boats for a long time. A number of boats suffered micro blistering once the thaw set in, e4pecilly boats painted the previous summer. Our resident paint expert who also ran a well regarded paint company undertook an instigation and he fount that oil based paint is slightly porous so that when held against the paintwork water could and did penetrate the paint. If water molecules can permeate the paint film then I am sure oxygen ones can also. My own experience bears this out when lifting things like floor covering on steel decking that has water trapped under it. There always seem to be rust and that implies that both water and oxygen can penetrate a typical paint film (not talking about two pack and other exotic coatings here).

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8 minutes ago, frangar said:

You do know that Vactan is considered safe for potable water as per their website ?? That’s without overcoating.

 

edited to add quote from website 

 

“Vactan has been tested and certified as fit for use for the carriage of grain and use in potable water systems.  It may also be used in sensitive foodstuff areas.“

AFAIK the product is certainly harmful in its raw form, however if applied in accordance with the instructions (which if I recall correctly includes thorough rinsing with water to remove any residue of unreacted acid, before introducing the potable water) the iron tannate (??) that is the product of the tannic acid reaction is not harmful in practice.   Please correct me if you know any better.

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My roof is painted in Vauxhall Wavecrest blue, an old Viva colour. The paint is Valentines Valflash synthetic enamel vehicle finish. Been on there nearly 20 years, still good and glossy, no pimples or bubons or rust. I recommend vehicle enamels one shot against any so called fancy marine finish. Ault Wieborg-ex-Bergers amongst others also do synthetic enamel. Any good vehicle re-finishing supplier will stock it and mix your colour.

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5 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

AFAIK the product is certainly harmful in its raw form, however if applied in accordance with the instructions (which if I recall correctly includes thorough rinsing with water to remove any residue of unreacted acid, before introducing the potable water) the iron tannate (??) that is the product of the tannic acid reaction is not harmful in practice.   Please correct me if you know any better.

Vactan doesn’t require rinsing....are you confusing it with Fertan?? 
 

this is the link to the pdf 

 

http://www.paco-systems.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/vactan.pdf

Edited by frangar

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51 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Pretty sure that tannic acid rust converters are not safe for drinking water. 

Then you are incorrect and shouldn’t believe all you see on YouTube. 
 

45 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Microscopic oxides left over from wire brushing pitted steel don't need to be converted, the paint system excludes the oxygen and stops any further rusting. 

Wrong again. You’re on a roll here. 
 

45 minutes ago, CompairHolman said:

Is Rust Converter Harmful If Ingested?

Yes  

No. Not once it’s cured and used as directed.


Obviously you’re not supposed to drink it out of the bottle; it’s not meths...

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This thread is quite interesting as I've blocked CH following previous abusive postings,so I only get his stuff when more sensible people tell him he's talking rubbish. Doesn't look as if I have any need to change my settings so far.

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6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

This thread is quite interesting as I've blocked CH following previous abusive postings,so I only get his stuff when more sensible people tell him he's talking rubbish. Doesn't look as if I have any need to change my settings so far.

Unfortunately, when you “ignore” someone, I find it actually highlights the fact that they have posted by telling you they have posted, but that you are ignoring them. My lack of discipline means that I usually can’t help having a sneaky peak to see what bollox they are posting on each occasion.

 

I wish there was a way to ignore someone completely, and not be reminded that they had posted.

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3 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

When you say it worked very well what do you mean , what did it actually do that just painting didn't ?

 

It resulted in no visible signs of rust after two winters, in direct contrast to the previous paint system. It might not be a complete cure (nothing is, see my post above) but it is better than paint.

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29 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

It resulted in no visible signs of rust after two winters, in direct contrast to the previous paint system. It might not be a complete cure (nothing is, see my post above) but it is better than paint.

And presumably you didn’t drink it out of the bottle either...

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

And presumably you didn’t drink it out of the bottle either...

You don't know what you're missing, vactan with a dash of lime juice, heaven, never done me no harm.

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

You don't know what you're missing, vactan with a dash of lime juice, heaven, never done me no harm.

And your insides aren't rusting!

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12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:


I think the OP did though....

 

 

He obviously forgot the lime juice

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7 hours ago, CompairHolman said:

Microscopic oxides left over from wire brushing pitted steel don't need to be converted, the paint system excludes the oxygen and stops any further rusting. 

 

When you say it worked very well what do you mean , what did it actually do that just painting didn't ?

Is Rust Converter Harmful If Ingested?

Yes, Rust Converter contains tannic acid. You should immediately get medical attention.

 

https://www.promain.co.uk/blog/rust-converter-faqs/

The LD50 of tannic acid is 5g/kg so for a average 88kg male they would have to drink 440g of tannic acid to kill them. I would hazard a guess that Vactan is nowhere near 100% tannic acid.

 

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9 minutes ago, sbainbridge said:

The LD50 of tannic acid is 5g/kg so for a average 88kg male they would have to drink 440g of tannic acid to kill them. I would hazard a guess that Vactan is nowhere near 100% tannic acid.

 

I'd not drink a pint of neat Vactan though!

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4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'd not drink a pint of neat Vactan though!

And I'd not worry about drinking a pint of water from a tank treated with Vactan.

 

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5 minutes ago, sbainbridge said:

 

De-ionised water!

 

I particularly like these precautions to be taken:

 

Eye Contact: Rinse thoroughly with plenty of water, also under the eyelids. If symptoms persist, call a physician.

Skin Contact: Wash with soap and water.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

De-ionised water!

 

I particularly like these precautions to be taken:

 

Eye Contact: Rinse thoroughly with plenty of water, also under the eyelids. If symptoms persist, call a physician.

Skin Contact: Wash with soap and water.

I was quite taken by the fire fighting measures too...

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17 hours ago, David Mack said:

And your insides aren't rusting!

 

It even got rid of his ginger hair 😁

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