Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
doratheexplorer

Council tax query

Featured Posts

I know many liveaboards use a friend of family member's address for post.  Say that friend or family member lived alone and claimed the 25% discount off their Council Tax.  Then say the council became aware that your post was delivered there and they started action on council tax fraud, believing the house had 2 occupants and not 1. 

 

How would you prove you lived on a cruising boat and not in the house?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The council tax payer has to declare which people live in a property.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not up to you to prove anything.  

 

It's not illegal to have your post directed to a friend or family member.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I know many liveaboards use a friend of family member's address for post.  Say that friend or family member lived alone and claimed the 25% discount off their Council Tax.  Then say the council became aware that your post was delivered there and they started action on council tax fraud, believing the house had 2 occupants and not 1. 

 

How would you prove you lived on a cruising boat and not in the house?

Its never been a problem for me in thirty years. Its a non event and nowt to worry about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have a car, if so what is the address given for the car insurance? Apart from that, I can't think of any authority where they wouldn't accept that a postal/correspondence address doesn't actually coincide with the actual physical location of your being there. Although I imagine banks (due to AML) and other insurers (due to risk) might have a blanket policy which when applied, means you can't be their customer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I know many liveaboards use a friend of family member's address for post.  Say that friend or family member lived alone and claimed the 25% discount off their Council Tax.  Then say the council became aware that your post was delivered there and they started action on council tax fraud, believing the house had 2 occupants and not 1. 

 

How would you prove you lived on a cruising boat and not in the house?

I have come across several instances of what you are suggesting.

If you are having mail sent somewhere, it appears that that becomes your 'registered address' so the 'single occupant' discount is no longer available.

 

Looking at it the 'other way', if asked to prove you live somewhere you provide evidence with that address on (driving licence, C&RT licence paperwork, etc etc) so how can you prove you don't live there when that is where your mail is sent.

 

The examples I know of 'lost' their claim and the home owner lost their discount.

 

Why can you not use one of the post-forwarding service ?

 

I did wonder if using C/O in the address would overcome the problem ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I know many liveaboards use a friend of family member's address for post.  Say that friend or family member lived alone and claimed the 25% discount off their Council Tax.  Then say the council became aware that your post was delivered there and they started action on council tax fraud, believing the house had 2 occupants and not 1. 

 

How would you prove you lived on a cruising boat and not in the house?

You don't have to prove anything. Provided you do actually live on the boat, and that it is your main residence, you should be considered a disregarded person at your relatives address. Write to who ever is initiating the action informing them of such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Phil. said:

You don't have to prove anything. Provided you do actually live on the boat, and that it is your main residence, you should be considered a disregarded person at your relatives address. Write to who ever is initiating the action informing them of such.

You are correct that the person using the address as a forwarding address doesn't have to prove anything, it is the actual resident of the property who has to prove that they qualify for the single person discount which may well be undermined if they are receiving and accepting post addressed to someone else. The list of 'disregarded people' according to Which are :-

 

  • an apprentice studying for a recognised qualification
  • a young person (under 25) in approved training
  • a full-time student (attending university or college, or under the age of 20 and studying A levels or their equivalent)
  • an 18 or 19-year-old in full-time education
  • a student nurse
  • resident hospital patients
  • people living in care homes
  • people who are severely mentally impaired
  • people staying in hostels or night shelters
  • carers (providing at least 35 hours' care a week) if they are not the main resident’s husband, wife or civil partner
  • prisoners
  • monks and nuns
  • members of visiting forces
  • individuals with diplomatic privileges and immunities.

I'm not entirely sure how someone living on a narrowboat fits into that list (possibly under,"...people who are severely mentally impaired....":wacko:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

members of visiting forces

So it would be OK if you were receiving mail for Darth Vader ?

Would it be Ok to accept mail from Han Solo to Luke Skywalker only on May the 4th ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You are correct that the person using the address as a forwarding address doesn't have to prove anything, it is the actual resident of the property who has to prove that they qualify for the single person discount which may well be undermined if they are receiving and accepting post addressed to someone else. The list of 'disregarded people' according to Which are :-

 

  • an apprentice studying for a recognised qualification
  • a young person (under 25) in approved training
  • a full-time student (attending university or college, or under the age of 20 and studying A levels or their equivalent)
  • an 18 or 19-year-old in full-time education
  • a student nurse
  • resident hospital patients
  • people living in care homes
  • people who are severely mentally impaired
  • people staying in hostels or night shelters
  • carers (providing at least 35 hours' care a week) if they are not the main resident’s husband, wife or civil partner
  • prisoners
  • monks and nuns
  • members of visiting forces
  • individuals with diplomatic privileges and immunities.

I'm not entirely sure how someone living on a narrowboat fits into that list (possibly under,"...people who are severely mentally impaired....":wacko:)

That list is for people who do live there but don't count (in terms of counting up beyond 1, in determining council tax discount). 

 

It won't include people who don't live there but are merely using the address for correspondence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You are correct that the person using the address as a forwarding address doesn't have to prove anything, it is the actual resident of the property who has to prove that they qualify for the single person discount which may well be undermined if they are receiving and accepting post addressed to someone else. The list of 'disregarded people' according to Which are :-

 

  • an apprentice studying for a recognised qualification
  • a young person (under 25) in approved training
  • a full-time student (attending university or college, or under the age of 20 and studying A levels or their equivalent)
  • an 18 or 19-year-old in full-time education
  • a student nurse
  • resident hospital patients
  • people living in care homes
  • people who are severely mentally impaired
  • people staying in hostels or night shelters
  • carers (providing at least 35 hours' care a week) if they are not the main resident’s husband, wife or civil partner
  • prisoners
  • monks and nuns
  • members of visiting forces
  • individuals with diplomatic privileges and immunities.

I'm not entirely sure how someone living on a narrowboat fits into that list (possibly under,"...people who are severely mentally impaired....":wacko:)

I think someone “living on a narrowboat” doesn’t live/reside at the house, so shouldn’t need to be disregarded.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

I think someone “living on a narrowboat” doesn’t live/reside at the house, so shouldn’t need to be disregarded.

 

 

If you are having all of your mail sent to another address (C&RT paperwork, Tax returns, birthday cards, whatever) then how do you prove you actually  LIVE on a boat.

You may suggest that you have receipts for things such as fuel, gas, servicing etc - but - I have those and I don't liveaboard.

 

The only likely argument (that I can think of) would be to pay for a residential mooring and pay council tax.

That would obviously not be an option for CCers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing this could equally apply the other way around - that is, someone using a friend or family postal address whilst actually living aboard in a marina or other fixed location in order to avoid paying the local council their council tax.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you are having all of your mail sent to another address (C&RT paperwork, Tax returns, birthday cards, whatever) then how do you prove you actually  LIVE on a boat.

You may suggest that you have receipts for things such as fuel, gas, servicing etc - but - I have those and I don't liveaboard.

 

The only likely argument (that I can think of) would be to pay for a residential mooring and pay council tax.

That would obviously not be an option for CCers.

I'm broadly in agreement although the question is more how does that actual resident at the address prove that the liveaboard doesn't live there (that is what the council are interested in and where the proof is needed). With a residential mooring you wouldn't necessarily need another postal address since, if you are paying council tax, you would probably already have a postal code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I'm broadly in agreement although the question is more how does that actual resident at the address prove that the liveaboard doesn't live there (that is what the council are interested in and where the proof is needed). With a residential mooring you wouldn't necessarily need another postal address since, if you are paying council tax, you would probably already have a postal code.

It is always difficult (impossible) to prove a 'negative'. 

I'm guessing that the only way to prove that the person in question is not resident at the address is to prove they are resident elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Paul C said:

But do they need to? Or does the council need to prove they live there?

The default is that full Council Tax is payable. The householder has to apply for the single person discount , and provide evidence. From Which (https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/council-tax/reducing-your-council-tax-bill-atcsu6q474gl?

 

"How do I apply for a council tax discount? If you think you are eligible for a single-person discount, write to your council when you receive a council tax bill. Your council will ask you to provide supporting evidence. It must then inform you whether it's decided to grant you a reduction within two months. If you disagree with the council’s verdict, you can appeal to a valuation tribunal. For the address of the tribunal, contact your council or visit the Valuation Tribunal Service website."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Topical as I received our council tax bill this morning. 

 

I guess all councils are a bit different in this respect, but looking at Solihull's web site it seems simple enough to claim the single person discount,  all you need to do is declare that you are the only adult aged over 18 living at the address.  The stuff about disregarded persons is for those that live at the address and the don't count in the numbers.  So I can not see where receiving mail for another person comes into it at all, and it certainly does not ask you about that.  How would they even know you were receiving mail for someone else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you registered there for a postal vote?  Unfortunately it is up to the single person to declare they live alone, and if required provide proof that they are the sole occupant. Not identical but similar we have a student let, and last year the council decided that one of the occupants was not a student, and sent us a bill. We had to get proof of registration and attendance from the university authorities (deans office) for all the students, before they would change their mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you are having all of your mail sent to another address (C&RT paperwork, Tax returns, birthday cards, whatever) then how do you prove you actually  LIVE on a boat.

You may suggest that you have receipts for things such as fuel, gas, servicing etc - but - I have those and I don't liveaboard.

 

The only likely argument (that I can think of) would be to pay for a residential mooring and pay council tax.

That would obviously not be an option for CCers.

I see what you are saying, and it would be interesting to hear from someone who has suffered because of this. I dont think anybody has popped up here to say that they know of somebody - which obviously doesnt mean it hasnt happened.

 

I think you have to state that you are the sole resident in order to claim the discount. I think the council accept this as the fact, on a primae facie basis, and grant the discount.... in most/all cases. Perhaps they make some checks during the two month period they have.

 

If the council has a suspicion that you are not the only resident, it would be for them to challenge this and either, not grant the discount, or withdraw it. Presumably they have to give a reason. If it is because mail and stuff for someone else goes to the house, you can appeal and state the facts, (rather than the councils assumptions). I dont know what happens here, (is the appeal under oath?), but one would assume that the facts, rather than an assumption, would win.

 

If I lived on my boat, I think I could pull together enough stuff to prove it... definitely on the balance of probabilities, maybe beyond reasonable doubt.

 

If we knew of someone who had experienced it, we would have an idea of how it all works. Given that we dont seem to, perhaps it doesnt really matter :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have a bank account, credit card, loan etc then you will have a credit report which will list your address. Addresses can be reverse-searched by credit agencies which is why you hear about folk being refused credit due to the previous occupier of their home having had bad credit. Can a council do similar searches? I don’t know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Detling said:

Are you registered there for a postal vote?  Unfortunately it is up to the single person to declare they live alone, and if required provide proof that they are the sole occupant. Not identical but similar we have a student let, and last year the council decided that one of the occupants was not a student, and sent us a bill. We had to get proof of registration and attendance from the university authorities (deans office) for all the students, before they would change their mind.

Council tax is a tax on occupation, not ownership. So the issue of whether or not council tax was payable on your student let would be for the tenants to show (and if appropriate, pay), and nothing to do with you.

After graduating my daughter shared a house with 3 university mates, 2 of whom were still students. So although the rent was split 4 ways, the CT had to be covered by the two non-students - something she hadn't considered beforehand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Council tax is a tax on occupation, not ownership.

Not completely true tho'.

 

The owner still has to pay council tax on an empty property, and if the property has been empty for 2 years then the council tax has a 50% premium added.

 

Empty properties

You’ll usually have to pay Council Tax on an empty home, but your council can decide to give you a discount - the amount is up to them. Contact your council to ask about a discount.

Your council can charge up to 50% extra Council Tax if your home has been empty for 2 years or more (unless it’s an annexe or you’re in the armed forces).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.