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Which sort of battery should I get


Dave_P
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16 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

But then I would need a new battery charger, wouldn’t I?

It depends whether the charge cycle is adjustable maximum charge voltage for a gel is 14.4v and float is 13.2 to 13.8 volts both my whispergen and solar can be adjusted to these voltages

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23 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

This is my battery charger. Any thoughts?

the battery type selector is set to unsealed lead acid  

A76F8996-BFD7-418E-86AE-8E269AE6C010.jpeg

I'm not a lead-acid battery expert, but to my scant knowledge bot the above items should / could cope with your charging needs -

I have the same model as your Sterling charger and it works hard for me (mine's a 25 amp @ 24V) and I have an Adverc for when cruising. I'm a fan of both; but then I'm a leisure boater.

Even if you're a high power user, having the charger on 24/7 should make a good or better contribution to your charging regime - but something in the back of my mind says you have some really power hungry  appliances that are on for long periods in the day? I'm also wondering whether your batteries have become goosed during the summer season where the engine use and solar haven't kept pace with your daily use and have degraded to the point of you noticing it.

Recent discussions have pushed the minimum battery capacity far beyond your 330 Ah and towards 1,000 Ah. I suggest and extra battery / or a capacity of 400 - 500 Ah would be better. It's not only a question of capacity but also the discharge rate and you may be taking quite high current out of your pack and cheap leisure's just can't cope.

Perhaps other will come back and demolish my arguments - but it's worth starting yet another discussion!

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6 hours ago, dmr said:

 On a battery bank of a given size there are in fact the same number of cells in Trojans and standard batteries.

.............Dave

??? Not with the 6v cells ie T105s. 2x T105s in series = total of 225AH and 6 cells. 2 leisure batteries in parallel = total of 220AH and 12 cells.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

??? Not with the 6v cells ie T105s. 2x T105s in series = total of 225AH and 6 cells. 2 leisure batteries in parallel = total of 220AH and 12 cells.

I think the point dmr was making that for a given battery voltage of say 12 volts, it will always be made up of 6 x 2 volt cells, irrespective of capacity.

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

??? Not with the 6v cells ie T105s. 2x T105s in series = total of 225AH and 6 cells. 2 leisure batteries in parallel = total of 220AH and 12 cells.

I can differentiate and integrate, and even design a digital filter, but those adds and take-aways still have me stumped.:D

I must write out 100 times...

A big advantage of T105's is Big Cells.

..............Dave

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

I can differentiate and integrate

Why do I still remember “minus b plus or minus the square root of b squared minus four a c all over two a”?  The only time I’ve ever used it is in a classroom. 

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

IIR or FIR?

 

21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe even IFR (depending on the weather).

 I never progressed past VFR ;)

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I think a lot depends on what you expect from your batteries. If you have 4x110AH cheapos and sit in near-darkness every night under a 1w LED light listening to the wireless - but in bed by 9 of course! - and shower every now and again, have a gas fridge, then you initially only use a tiny percentage of the badged capacity. You can tolerate a massive reduction in capacity before it become problematic.

On the other hand if you like the boat well-lit, HD recording satellite TV, electric fridge, toaster, coffee machine, electric kettle, electric blanket etc, then you will notice even a modest reduction in capacity.

For the latter person, having quality batteries is a good thing.

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I have 2x Trojan 31XHS batteries which are getting on for £200 each these days, they are over 7 years old and are still performing well.  But when I compare this with the anecdotal evidence from others on the forum who buy cheap batteries and replace them every 3 years or so it's a six and two threes financially.  I don't know how much longer the Trojans will last of course but I assume I'm on borrowed time.  

There's an argument that "sealed" batteries are a better choice for the average boater who doesn't have the gadgetry to get the best out of wet cell batteries but I'm not sure I agree.  I don't do any of that equalisation stuff and I don't have a sophisticated charging set up in fact it's about as basic as you can get, but, I do think the battery capacity is very well matched to our power needs.  I suspect this is where a lot of folk go wrong, ie not doing a proper power audit so they have just enough battery capacity for their needs and no more.

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23 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think a lot depends on what you expect from your batteries. If you have 4x110AH cheapos and sit in near-darkness every night under a 1w LED light listening to the wireless - but in bed by 9 of course! - and shower every now and again, have a gas fridge, then you initially only use a tiny percentage of the badged capacity. You can tolerate a massive reduction in capacity before it become problematic.

On the other hand if you like the boat well-lit, HD recording satellite TV, electric fridge, toaster, coffee machine, electric kettle, electric blanket etc, then you will notice even a modest reduction in capacity.

For the latter person, having quality batteries is a good thing.

Now listen Nick. We watch sat tv, have lights on, electric fridge. Ali uses a hairdryer, digital radio/cd often on. We do on boat as we do at our house. Batteries last as I said...

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We are much the same, 6x110ah Numax batteries which are coming up to four years old. We have most lights on so we can see on an evening, we have a 12v fridge (used to have fridge\freezer), the inverter is on to power a DAB radio for 5 or 6 hours a day and Mrs-M uses her hairdryer daily. As the batteries are inaccessible they are sealed so fit and forget. I have a NASA BM2 which I only use to see what the voltage is and generally on a morning it is 12.6\12.7. The lowest it has ever been is 12.5 when we haven't boated for a day.

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2 hours ago, ianali said:

I buy standard/cheap batteries. My present 4 X 110 lead acid cost less than £300. 3 years old now and a bit tired, hoping they may last another year though. I don't spend much time worrying about them, I spend more on milk than I do on them. 

Absolutely correct. There is in reality nothing more to be said than this post. Cheap/use dispose.............cost equates to peanuts and no tucking the damn things up in bed at night, giving them names or watering them.

  • Greenie 1
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On 23/09/2017 at 20:37, Neil2 said:

There's an argument that "sealed" batteries are a better choice for the average boater who doesn't have the gadgetry to get the best out of wet cell batteries but I'm not sure I agree.  I don't do any of that equalisation stuff and I don't have a sophisticated charging set up in fact it's about as basic as you can get, but, I do think the battery capacity is very well matched to our power needs.  I suspect this is where a lot of folk go wrong, ie not doing a proper power audit so they have just enough battery capacity for their needs and no more.

I have 4xT105's for the last 4 years and they still seem to be going strong even tho I'm the same and don't equalise, rarely check/top up the water (I've done it twice! which reminds me) and I heavly discharge without re-charging for days.   At the moment I have no real monitoring setup, but have a Simarine to install.   One day I'll add LiFePO4 batteries when the Trojans give up as this will shorten my charge time quite considerably - I charge from built in genny so shortening the charge time is good for me.

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We've been in Birmingham for well over a week now and only been running the engine every second or third day. This morning I let the Trojans get right down to 40% (steps aside for possible bolts of lightning). I am charging them now but have noted that the charge current is dropping off more quickly than I would expect so I suspect some sulphation is already setting in. I reckon this is what did for Mikes batteries.

I could do a little equalise but we've got several long cruising days in front of us which will most likely sort things out.

.................Dave

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47 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I wonder why this hasn’t worked for @Mike the Boilerman? Perhaps his Trojanoids aren’t as Trojan-like as he suspected?

 

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I was wondering this too. I might yet try a set of the genuine thing.

How do you charge yours @Mike the Boilerman?   I use a Victron with 14.8v bulk, 13.2v float.  I also up the amps to 120, which isn't meant to be good for them either but I rarely see them take more than 100.

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On 25/09/2017 at 13:07, Robbo said:

 

How do you charge yours @Mike the Boilerman?   I use a Victron with 14.8v bulk, 13.2v float.  I also up the amps to 120, which isn't meant to be good for them either but I rarely see them take more than 100.

Well for nine months of the year the solar keeps them at 100% according to the SmartGauge so I never charge them. 

But in winter I use a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 24v 30A charger. This was the highest current 24v charger I could find. I run out of hours in a weekend for the tail current to stabilise.

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Well for nine months of the year the solar keeps them at 100% according to the SmartGauge so I never charge them. 

But in winter I use a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 24v 30A charger. This was the highest current 24v charger I could find. I run out of hours in a weekend for the tail current to stabilise.

What voltage did you charge them at?

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