Facebook, yobs canal boats and a lock

[carlt]

7 hours ago, bigcol said:

thanks for posting, folks know it's a deterant, if the punishment is fast and swift, then thieves think twice.

over in the western world, there's nothing.  That's why we have yobs growing up thinking it's acceptable to cover their identitys,

I note the irony of praising a system that makes its women cover their faces.

Edited September 10, 2017 by carlt

[nb Innisfree]

I was lucky in having unconditional love from my parents, but that love could be tough. Dad was endlessly patient turning a blind eye to a normal boys misdemeanours but wouldn't tolerate bad behaviour at home he never hit me but I was scared of winding him up. Mum was my biggest fear, especially if she found out I had been a nuisance to any adults! I can recall just twice when she gave me a clip after I had pushed her too far!

But she was a holy terror with any adult who threatened me unreasonably, I was once accosted on a bus by a drunken man when I was 14, I was terrified, needn't have worried, the (black) conductor came to my rescue and when mum found out she stormed round to his house and threatened to cut his throat lol! She was tough but she really loved me. 

Maybe that's what's missing in some kids lives, unconditional but tough love, being taught by example. 

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, nb Innisfree said:

... being taught by example. 

Sadly that isn't necessarily missing; it's often the CAUSE of the poor behaviour. 

[dccruiser]

1 hour ago, carlt said:

I note the irony of praising a system that makes its women cover their faces.

That did make me laugh! 

I neither condone or condemn their system, just like ours parts are good and parts are abhorrent, to me it just illustrated the fact that when there is a very harsh and real consequence for actions people certainly think twice! whereas here it seems p.c. has gone way too far especially when i have heard children utter those words "you dare punish me and i will phone childline" ... while the system remains the same it certainly isnt going to get any better and people will be open to mental and physical abuse from groups of youths that have nothing better to do with their time and think its all a laugh despite the lasting impact their behaviour can have on the lives of their victims.

Everyone should have a basic human right to live as they wish day to day without the underlying threat of being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time,but while the deterrent isnt there alas this will not be the case, yes the education of acceptable behaviour should be there and that starts with the parents, but in taking the power from parents to chastise their children the education has become one of no consequence.

Rick

[artleknock]

3 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

 

Everyone should have a basic human right to live as they wish day to day

As long as they don't affect the basic human rights of anyone else. By instilling fear into the people on that boat they were affecting their human rights.

[dccruiser]

1 minute ago, artleknock said:

As long as they don't affect the basic human rights of anyone else. By instilling fear into the people on that boat they were affecting their human rights.

Absolutely! i was referring to the boaters not the youths causing the problem.

 

Rick

[artleknock]

2 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

Absolutely! i was referring to the boaters not the youths causing the problem.

 

Rick

Read it wrong,sorry.

Edited September 10, 2017 by artleknock

[carlt]

2 hours ago, dccruiser said:

.. while the system remains the same it certainly isnt going to get any better and people will be open to mental and physical abuse from groups of youths that have nothing better to do with their time and think its all a laugh despite the lasting impact their behaviour can have on the lives of their victims.

I agree entirely that the system needs to change but I believe that young people thrive in a system designed to provide opportunities and hope rather than fear and hopelessness.

 

[Jerra]

5 hours ago, Wanted said:

We should vote for a party that systematically remove activities for kids and then set up a system that provides activities for kids. 

Not specifically a comment on the above but this idea of activities for kids solving the problem has always interested me.  I was brought up in a village long before technological entertainment in fact we didn't even have TV until after I left home at 18.

Growing up we were never bored, nobody laid on much in the way of facilities for us apart from the weekly scout meeting if you were a scout.

I can't get my head round two things.  First how, why,and when did kids lose the ability to entertain themselves.  Second why aren't we trying to instil this ability in them rather than expecting things like youth clubs etc "entertaining" them.

[mrsmelly]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not specifically a comment on the above but this idea of activities for kids solving the problem has always interested me.  I was brought up in a village long before technological entertainment in fact we didn't even have TV until after I left home at 18.

Growing up we were never bored, nobody laid on much in the way of facilities for us apart from the weekly scout meeting if you were a scout.

I can't get my head round two things.  First how, why,and when did kids lose the ability to entertain themselves.  Second why aren't we trying to instil this ability in them rather than expecting things like youth clubs etc "entertaining" them.

In a nutshell.

[tomsk]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 13:33, Wanted said:

Plato quoted Socrates with (paraphrased) 'youth of today' that's just standard. 

'The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.' 

 

The real issue in my mind is the absolute destruction of services. Where have all the youth workers gone? The youth service in most local authorities were not ring fenced, the Tories saw this as a luxury and decimated them first. 

The very thing that most people here seem to be advocating (meaningful use of time) is probably the very thing they voted to have cut. 

I have some sympathy with the notion of self protection and protecting ones property, as Tomsk says. I'm a pacifist so who know what might happen, but to scream, shout and use force is surely acting in the same way as the kids. 

 

My my two year old is absolutely charming most of the time, but as any toddler he has his moments. If I respond to him by shouting then all he learns is to shout back. The same principles apply. 

Adults need to be the example, lead the way, and you know what, if they ain't getting that from their parents then I advocate the community stepping in.

Another quote from what I believe is an African proverb is it takes a village to raise a child. 

 

Both good quotes, thanks. 

Stock-Transfer killed off the already deaf, dumb, blind and stumbling 'Youth Services' social expectation stone dead in the exact areas that need them the most.

Their are well run exceptions obviously

A neat and irresistible devolvement of responsibility, which properly (mercilessly) managed will show a Social Engagement/Investment/Environmental/Wotever spend orders of magnitude greater than previously seen in living memory on such unimpeachable initiatives over a minimum 10 year plan pre-post transfer, significantly front-end weighted, by Y3 post-transfer it's an irreversible done deal.

By Y5 spend should be tailing off, focused and well documented in the Media wherever possible.

Y8-10 is all about final extraction, to include both ceremonial and contractual 'Washing of Hands' sign-offs.

THEN NO MORE SPEND EVER!

The key definition is that of 'Community' in this context sez I.

It's hellishly unquantifiable.

T

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil.]

19 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not specifically a comment on the above but this idea of activities for kids solving the problem has always interested me.  I was brought up in a village long before technological entertainment in fact we didn't even have TV until after I left home at 18.

Growing up we were never bored, nobody laid on much in the way of facilities for us apart from the weekly scout meeting if you were a scout.

I can't get my head round two things.  First how, why,and when did kids lose the ability to entertain themselves.  Second why aren't we trying to instil this ability in them rather than expecting things like youth clubs etc "entertaining" them.

The reason is because those who claim the problem is down to a lack of things for kids to do, are simply making excuses. The problem is almost entirely down to crap parenting. The real issue is that a small but significant percentage of the adult population are complete turds, but unfortunately they can, and quite often do breed, usually producing more of their brood than the more responsible element of society. 

[junior]

On Friday, September 08, 2017 at 12:31, Mike Hurley said:

Everyone should do national service, teaches you respect and discipline, 2 things sadly lacking in todays world.

Yeah, because having knobs like these serving would do wonders for our Armed Forces.

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, Phil. said:

The reason is because those who claim the problem is down to a lack of things for kids to do, are simply making excuses. The problem is almost entirely down to crap parenting. The real issue is that a small but significant percentage of the adult population are complete turds, but unfortunately they can, and quite often do breed, usually producing more of their brood than the more responsible element of society. 

So true. Parents now let " little Johnie " decide at any age what he/she wants because their child is allowed to " express itself " aaaarrghhhhh children need guidance NOT a free reign. We had a small child in this morning 4/5 and its mum ASKED it wether it wanted a piece of cake or a sausage sandwich for breakfast  no prizes for guessing what the little darling had and this happens daily!!

[Wanted]

43 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not specifically a comment on the above but this idea of activities for kids solving the problem has always interested me.  I was brought up in a village long before technological entertainment in fact we didn't even have TV until after I left home at 18.

Growing up we were never bored, nobody laid on much in the way of facilities for us apart from the weekly scout meeting if you were a scout.

I can't get my head round two things.  First how, why,and when did kids lose the ability to entertain themselves.  Second why aren't we trying to instil this ability in them rather than expecting things like youth clubs etc "entertaining" them.

Good points, I would suggest that a good youth service would do exactly this. 

We are in fact talking about two slightly different models of practice in reality. 

Generic traditional youth work is based on pro-active planning that provides activities much in the same way scouts do. A good generic youth worker will act as a continuation of good parenting, sharing skills and nurture positive risk taking etc. 

The other side of the coin, and this is a relatively recent thing, is that many youth services were squeezed and forced into running entirely different services than their origional mission. Contracting authorities pressure for relentless 'outcomes' and youth services became hubs for children who were in greater need of positive roll models given the lack at home. 

My practice sat somewhere in the middle. 

I would suggest that those of us who were lucky enough to be given a pen knife, allowed to roam until hungry and spent endless summers in the woods are also lucky enough not to have experienced abusive parents, neglectful lifestyles and loveless childhoods. 

In short, these kids are not able to make their own (positive) entertainment because they haven't been shown how. 

Thats my point really, I am advocating for the gap in their lives to be filled with positive experiences, all of which will teach them how to focus their obvious if somewhat misguided passion into creating their own. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Phil. said:

The reason is because those who claim the problem is down to a lack of things for kids to do, are simply making excuses. The problem is almost entirely down to crap parenting. The real issue is that a small but significant percentage of the adult population are complete turds, but unfortunately they can, and quite often do breed, usually producing more of their brood than the more responsible element of society. 

It's not making excuses, it's evidence based practice built over 20 years backed up by degree level education. 

 

 

 

[bigcol]

Why not junior air corps, or junior army reserves

both have meetings, and then camps and what ever, and they end up in a uniform.

there a local hall  for them in town.

I think the reserves army cadets is a good idea, its run by ex military officers I think.

 

col

[Boat&Bikes]

Can I take it all this talk of national service, junior armies ETC are for youths that have been convicted of a crime? 

[dccruiser]

Surely the point is not what these kids do or dont have to entertain them,  but more about knowing right from wrong and what is acceptable behaviour, something they are all very aware of but choose to ignore ... if they want to go to Air, Sea or Army cadets these things exist in every town, they dont as their attitude to conformity doesnt allow it.

Rick

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

their attitude to conformity doesnt allow it.

This always makes me smile. "We don't conform". So they all wear the same 'uniform' in the same way, use the same street patois, walk with the same swagger...

Punks were similar - the same boots, the same hair, the same braces... every generation seems to go through a similar phase. 

[dccruiser]

25 minutes ago, WotEver said:

This always makes me smile. "We don't conform". So they all wear the same 'uniform' in the same way, use the same street patois, walk with the same swagger...

Punks were similar - the same boots, the same hair, the same braces... every generation seems to go through a similar phase. 

Very true... but although i was one of a gang of youths that didnt conform i knew right from wrong and respected my elders, parents,teachers and of course the local bobby ... learning from a very early age if i didnt there was a severe consequence and that is what is missing today.... 

Rick

[thebfg]

7 hours ago, WotEver said:

Sadly that isn't necessarily missing; it's often the CAUSE of the poor behaviour. 

Exactly.

Around here it's the fact that it's kids are breeding kids.

The parents are too young and have no life experience, they can't even look after themselves let alone a baby.

 

Often parents are too busy or dare I say too lazy, often engrossed in anything but their children to take their own kids out.

 

The children say they are bored, But mine go:

Boating, kayaking, swimming, cubs, rainbows, wild camping, cycling , walking, swimming in rivers, fishing, climbing, geocaching, Bowling, heck my nipper is the only junior member at a bowls club  golf and many many other things. during holidays we go on a different day out every day.

 

we're NT and English herratige members and they love exploring forts and castles. We have started exploring abandoned places like old forts. closed hotels. There is quite a few Mod properties here. 

 

I just can't see there is nothing to do and blame the parents for not taking them and enjoying activities with them. They have no guidance, they see the parents being complete idiots and copy their behaviour.

 

Sorry, My rant over, but I do agree.

 

I do not know what the answer is, but there must be one.

Edited September 10, 2017 by thebfg

[bigcol]

1 hour ago, dccruiser said:

Very true... but although i was one of a gang of youths that didnt conform i knew right from wrong and respected my elders, parents,teachers and of course the local bobby ... learning from a very early age if i didnt there was a severe consequence and that is what is missing today.... 

Rick

Rick

 

spot on!

[bizzard]

My cousin was a Teddy boy, I wasn't though because I couldn't wear drain pipes, they were too heavy, afraid of them chaffing on my knees and making them chapped and seizing up with lack of use. I also would have had to go indoors when it rained for fear of my shoes filling with water. I could have worn wellies but I didn't have any, and Teddy boys wouldn't have worn wellies anyway.  Modern lightweight plastic drain pipes hadn't been invented then otherwise I might have been a Ted. It was difficult to swagger wearing drain pipes.

[Wanted]

1 hour ago, thebfg said:

 

'Snip'

mine go:

Boating, kayaking, swimming, cubs, rainbows, wild camping, cycling , walking, swimming in rivers, fishing, climbing, geocaching, Bowling, heck my nipper is the only junior member at a bowls club  golf and many many other things. during holidays we go on a different day out every day.

 

we're NT and English herratige members and they love exploring forts and castles. We have started exploring abandoned places like old forts. closed hotels. There is quite a few Mod properties here. 

'Snip'

I do not know what the answer is, but there must be one.

You've answered the question yourself. 

You show these kids the same love and boundaries as you clearly show your own. 

 

[carlt]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Punks were similar - the same boots, the same hair, the same braces... every generation seems to go through a similar phase. 

Perhaps I socialised with the wrong kind of punks but I don't recall many braces (that was more a skinhead thing) and most punks' hairstyles were more "The Clash" than "The Exploited".

Most of us were not sporting multi-coloured spiky hair dos or safety pins through our lips.. It was only the more colourful ones that made the news.

I went to a Dead Kennedys concert in full cricket whites back in the early 80s although admittedly I was the only individual wearing that particular uniform..most of the others there were conforming to the t-shirt and jeans look that has been a perennial ever since Levi Strauss started riveting bits of denim together.

2 hours ago, thebfg said:

 

We have started exploring abandoned places like old forts. closed hotels. There is quite a few Mod properties here. 

 

Daniel really should start paying them more.