Winter Moorings, how long before CaRT stop them?

[Mike Todd]

10 minutes ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

The situation wasn't helped at Batchworth by CaRT moving the rubbish bins away from the water point to a spot hidden away behind Travis Perkins where most passing boaters are not even aware its there. 

 

But they do need to be where a disposal company is prepared to bring their truck to empty them! I doubt whether CART wanted to move them.

[Tuscan]

Those that dump their rubbish on the towpath will no doubt continue to do so regardless of whether they have a winter mooring or not.

[rgreg]

Sadly I see boaters' rubbish dumped regularly. Last week I saw a complete Porta Potti left on the towpath in a very remote part of the canal; who in their right minds would do such a thing is beyond my comprehension. 

[mrsmelly]

11 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

But they do need to be where a disposal company is prepared to bring their truck to empty them! I doubt whether CART wanted to move them.

There lies the problem. When I was a kid the bin men used to walk into our garden every week and lift the bins and carry them to the wagon and empty them and bring them back, all smiley nice people. Over the intervening years that has turned into fortnightly with lots of silly coloured bins and a wheelie bin all of which my 96 year old mother is now expected to hump over a step and into the road to be emptied by the fit young blokes. This is known as progress I suppose. Luckily my sister talked to the council and the bin men now come and move it due to her age we were told this was out of their consideration to mums age and not in their remit. Disposal companies are allowed to dictate to the customer rather than the other way round in this day and age. Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus.

[Jerra]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

 Over the intervening years that has turned into fortnightly with lots of silly coloured bins and a wheelie bin all of which my 96 year old mother is now expected to hump over a step and into the road to be emptied by the fit young blokes. 

With our council you just have to register as unable to get the bin to the road side and the bin men collect empty and return.   Worked well for my late MiL

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

With our council you just have to register as unable to get the bin to the road side and the bin men collect empty and return.   Worked well for my late MiL

Yes I think thats what my sis must have done but why has " Progress " got us to a point where thats not normal practice anyway? why do others have to do half the bin mans job nowadays? If you come for a bacon sarnie to my caff I will not ask you to wash your plate before you leave its part of what we do. We are going backwards as a society at lightning speed.

[Jerra]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Yes I think thats what my sis must have done but why has " Progress " got us to a point where thats not normal practice anyway? why do others have to do half the bin mans job nowadays?

Simply cost.   If the bin men have to walk an extra say 10 yards for each house they don't cover as much ground in a day so either the council needs more teams or the teams work more hours either of which costs more.   I thought as a business man you would have easily worked that out.

More costs means either more council tax, who is keen to pay that?  Alternatively it means less money spent on other services.   Most people I know would prefer to put their rubbish at the kerb rather than either of the alternatives.

[mrsmelly]

15 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Simply cost.   If the bin men have to walk an extra say 10 yards for each house they don't cover as much ground in a day so either the council needs more teams or the teams work more hours either of which costs more.   I thought as a business man you would have easily worked that out.

More costs means either more council tax, who is keen to pay that?  Alternatively it means less money spent on other services.   Most people I know would prefer to put their rubbish at the kerb rather than either of the alternatives.

That doesnt wash though does it. Council tax has risen dramaticaly over the years and certainly hasnt gone down its more a case of even with more money the management has got worse and they are now less able to deliver the service we once had even with greater resources. Still I suppose a greater proportion of the management today will have been to Uni and have a degree so thats of benefit to us all.

[Chewbacka]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

That doesnt wash though does it. Council tax has risen dramaticaly over the years and certainly hasnt gone down its more a case of even with more money the management has got worse and they are now less able to deliver the service we once had even with greater resources. Still I suppose a greater proportion of the management today will have been to Uni and have a degree so thats of benefit to us all.

Council tax may have risen, but then so as the number of old people requiring care and more housing benefit - the cost of houses and hence rents has risen a lot faster than inflation.  So though it is easy to accuse the council of doing less for more, I for one am not sure that is true.

I suppose one solution would be to have more workers emptying the bins and then cut their pay so you don't have to pay any more council tax and when they strike, sack them all and replace with east Europeans that are prepared to work for less pay.  Of course this is grossly unfair and will increase unemployment and increase immigration.

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Council tax may have risen, but then so as the number of old people requiring care and more housing benefit - the cost of houses and hence rents has risen a lot faster than inflation.  So though it is easy to accuse the council of doing less for more, I for one am not sure that is true.

I suppose one solution would be to have more workers emptying the bins and then cut their pay so you don't have to pay any more council tax and when they strike, sack them all and replace with east Europeans that are prepared to work for less pay.  Of course this is grossly unfair and will increase unemployment and increase immigration.

You have posted that reply on the wrong thread.

[Jess--]

45 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Disposal companies are allowed to dictate to the customer rather than the other way round in this day and age. Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus.

from the disposal companies point of view you are NOT the customer.... the council is the customer.

[Jerra]

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

That doesnt wash though does it. Council tax has risen dramatically over the years and certainly hasn't gone down its more a case of even with more money the management has got worse and they are now less able to deliver the service we once had even with greater resources. Still I suppose a greater proportion of the management today will have been to Uni and have a degree so thats of benefit to us all.

We will have to disagree as what you conveniently ignore is the greater demand for council services e.g. more people living to the age oyu mother has also what height council tax would have risen to without cost savings.

Incidentally degrees have no bearing on the matter however I will leave you with a quote from a teacher I very much respected at the start of my career (now sadly one of those requiring the extra council service).

He said "There will always be hewers of wood and drawers of water" in other words there will always be jobs for those of our pupils incapable of taking CSE as it was then.   How wrong he was very few jobs today rely totally on muscle power and little brain ability.  Two results first those who can't use their brains to the right level need the council assistance more - up go the rates.   There is also a raised demand for paper qualifications as people don't want to go to the trouble of testing the person themselves and are more prepared to accept other peoples summation i.e. paper qualifications.

Who needs any paper qualification lets do away with them all even down to GCSE!

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Jess-- said:

from the disposal companies point of view you are NOT the customer.... the council is the customer.

Yes precisely, as I said they are dictating to the customer in this case the council.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

That doesnt wash though does it. Council tax has risen dramaticaly over the years and certainly hasnt gone down its more a case of even with more money the management has got worse and they are now less able to deliver the service we once had even with greater resources. Still I suppose a greater proportion of the management today will have been to Uni and have a degree so thats of benefit to us all.

What has gone down hugely is the general tax take and so the central funding of local government.  That's partly because tax has been reduced vastly at the top levels, and, of course, partly because loads of people (like the bin men) have been put out of work at decent wages (where they paid tax) and are now on the minimum wage, where not only do they not pay tax but get additional state support in order to be able to stay alive at all (in effect, the company gets a government subsidy for hiring them). Meanwhile the company shareholders get their dividends and the directors make a fortune.  Sometime it makes you wonder who the scroungers really are...

[frangar]

In my experience the higher the level of qualification in any field means a much lower level of common sense & ability to think any job through logically. Having a degree doesn't make you good at a job but somehow society is expected to pay for people to have them. 

[frahkn]

19 minutes ago, frangar said:

In my experience the higher the level of qualification in any field means a much lower level of common sense & ability to think any job through logically. Having a degree doesn't make you good at a job but somehow society is expected to pay for people to have them. 

I'm retired but when I was working I do not think my degree helped much with the day to day activities of the job. And yes, I took the degree in the days when the costs were all met from public funds.

However a requirement of applying for the job (rightly or wrongly) was a 2.1 or better degree. Most of my working life I was a higher rate tax payer (again, rightly or wrongly), so made a significant contribution to the exchequer.

I can't prove that I was worth the money nor that the degree helped - but in the end "society" gained rather than lost as a result.

Frank.

[haza]

so what as all this got to do with people dumping rubbish .and i will still say most of it comes from boaters ...i have seen it first hand..instance small boaters fridge in the canal .which by the way still had food in ...one place i pulled in to moor as one boat was moving off where upon 4 bags of rubbish was left ...went after said boat ...oh i forgot to pick it up .over the years i am sure most boaters have seen things floating in the cut ...that could have only come of a boater .  

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, haza said:

so what as all this got to do with people dumping rubbish .and i will still say most of it comes from boaters ...i have seen it first hand..instance small boaters fridge in the canal .which by the way still had food in ...one place i pulled in to moor as one boat was moving off where upon 4 bags of rubbish was left ...went after said boat ...oh i forgot to pick it up .over the years i am sure most boaters have seen things floating in the cut ...that could have only come of a boater .  

More times then I care to remember.

The most recent which was really annoying was a narrowboat which had moored under a bridge for a repaint. They spent six weeks moored under the bridge and when they left the area was in a right state. Bags of rubbish, piles of paint cans, rollers, paint trays, you name it they had left it. There was no need for it as 100 yards away is a pub where the landlord is happy for boaters to put their rubbish in his bins. 

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, haza said:

so what as all this got to do with people dumping rubbish .and i will still say most of it comes from boaters ...i have seen it first hand..instance small boaters fridge in the canal .which by the way still had food in ...one place i pulled in to moor as one boat was moving off where upon 4 bags of rubbish was left ...went after said boat ...oh i forgot to pick it up .over the years i am sure most boaters have seen things floating in the cut ...that could have only come of a boater .  

Nothing more to say really, some people just don't care and fly tip any where they like.   Not just boaters.  The only way to stop it is either huge fine or prison, or maybe litter picking and you must keep going every week until you have collected 1 tonne.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Chewbacka

[cuthound]

15 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

The only way to stop it is either huge fine or prison.

But it already is:

"The penalties for fly-tipping set out in the Environmental Protection Act 1990 were increased through the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005. It is now a criminal offence punishable by a fine of up to £50,000 or 12 months imprisonment if convicted in a Magistrates' Court".

The problem is catching the b*****s in the act, or finding robust evidence of who did it to ensure a conviction.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cuthound
To add the last sentance.

[alan_fincher]

5 hours ago, Jerra said:

With our council you just have to register as unable to get the bin to the road side and the bin men collect empty and return.   Worked well for my late MiL

^^^^^^
This.

I would have thought most councils offer "assisted collections" for those to elderly and infirm to lug wheely bins.

That's how it was for my late mum.

[Chewbacka]

18 minutes ago, cuthound said:

But it already is:

"The penalties for fly-tipping set out in the Environmental Protection Act 1990 were increased through the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005. It is now a criminal offence punishable by a fine of up to £50,000 or 12 months imprisonment if convicted in a Magistrates' Court".

The problem is catching the b*****s in the act, or finding robust evidence of who did it to ensure a conviction.

Then it should be like speed cameras, and fines for fly tipping should go to the council to fund more enforcement officers.  I would also include hanging bags of dog mess in trees etc to be fly tipping.  There is no excuse for obnoxious anti-social behaviour. 

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, haza said:

so what as all this got to do with people dumping rubbish .and i will still say most of it comes from boaters ...i have seen it first hand..instance small boaters fridge in the canal .which by the way still had food in ...one place i pulled in to moor as one boat was moving off where upon 4 bags of rubbish was left ...went after said boat ...oh i forgot to pick it up .over the years i am sure most boaters have seen things floating in the cut ...that could have only come of a boater .  

At a guess one percent of boaters will dump rubbish anywhere just like about one percent of house dwellers dump their rubbish anywhere ( adjust the figures if you see fit ) the 99 percent I find will be complying but 1 percent of rubbish is still a humungous amount.

[haza]

the op was walking the tow path ..not an housing estate 

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, haza said:

the op was walking the tow path ..not an housing estate 

Correct they were but in the past when I was unlucky enough to have to live in a house I oft passed piles of rubbish just like there is some on the canal, its people who throw rubbish about not a specific type of people but just the numpty faction in every group.