Newbie...Trojan t105

[WotEver]

Should it be 97%?

Nope. It has an accuracy of absolute maximum +/-5% (self-correcting) of the actual SoC. Gibbo stated that it's usually better than +/-3%.

[MtB]

See the specs from Cactus: http://www.cactusnav.com/merlin-smartguage-battery-monitor-p-11874.html

 

 

That says maximum errors of 10% during charge, and 5% during discharge. Where does the 3% value originate?

[WotEver]

Yep the learning curve is getting steeper........I have if am totally honest been undercharging for seven months with what I'm finding out piece by piece. I have just been looking at the equipment and what it does........ie charger goes to float so presumed 100%. The bmv says 100% so must be 100%. The smartgauge says 100% so it must be 100% ......answer no.lololol think I might sell up and buy a four man tent.

Try the link again. It should work. It explains everything you're asking in simple steps.

http://thunderboat.boards.net/thread/817/battery-charging-primer

That says maximum errors of 10% during charge, and 5% during discharge. Where does the 3% value originate?

See above. My original mention of the figure was "is around 3%"

[dmr]

The Smartgage is great for monitoring state of charge during discharge and it doesn't really matter if its 3, 5, or 10% accurate. Most boaters like to keep their batteries above about 50% but it actually don't matter much if its 52 or 48 etc despite a few folk fearing the end of the world at 49%.

 

Smartgage is not so good during charge though still gives a decent estimate, but sadly it says 100% much much too soon. Monitoring charge current is the best way to decide when to end the charging (turn the generator or engine off). Any device that has a float mode will almost certainly go into float too soon.

 

Monitoring current on a sulphated battery has a catch; the current will still fall to its low value when the battery is charged as much as its sulphated state will allow, so no obvious indication that it is not at 100% of its potential full capacity. A battery that looks to be fully charged (low tail current) but has obvious reduced capacity is sulphated.

 

Trojans are tough old things, even after 4 months I reckon you will recover most of the lost capacity with a good long hard equalise (probably split over a few sessions though, don't overheat them or boil them dry)

 

...............Dave

[Leon 12]

Cheers Dave, regarding a suitable charger rather than inverter charger which has significant drawbacks ie the power it uses. Any views on a decent charger with facilities built in.... Temp compensation, de sulph cycle. The sterling charger does have a user setting so you can import trojan settings for the t105. Any opinions would be great .....for 675 ah bank.

 

Leon

[Richard10002]

Cheers Dave, regarding a suitable charger rather than inverter charger which has significant drawbacks ie the power it uses. Any views on a decent charger with facilities built in.... Temp compensation, de sulph cycle. The sterling charger does have a user setting so you can import trojan settings for the t105. Any opinions would be great .....for 675 ah bank.

 

Leon

What model is your Sterling? I have a Sterling inverter charger which has a setting for an equalising charge at 15.5V. I also use a Honda Eu20i for charging.

[Alan de Enfield]

Its been said before, but why not just buy a set of (say, 4x) £60 cheapo leisure batteries, look after them the best you can and replace then every 12 months (£20 per month) or if lucky make them last 2 years (£10 per month)

 

Its less than 'the cost of a pint' per week, and when you have 'weighed them in' for scrap and got £10 each back, they have cost you even less.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[WotEver]

Its been said before, but why not just buy a set of (say, 4x) £60 cheapo leisure batteries, look after them the best you can and replace then every 12 months (£20 per month) or if lucky make them last 2 years (£10 per month)

 

Its less than 'the cost of a pint' per week, and when you have 'weighed them in' for scrap and got £10 each back, they have cost you even less.

Without any doubt this is the best approach for someone who is unable (either through ignorance or simply lack of charging facilities) to treat their batteries optimally.

 

However, OP has the Trojans and if he follows the advice in the link I supplied plus what other posters here are telling him then he stands s good chance of recovering most of the lost capacity.

[nicknorman]

Cheers Dave, regarding a suitable charger rather than inverter charger which has significant drawbacks ie the power it uses. Any views on a decent charger with facilities built in.... Temp compensation, de sulph cycle. The sterling charger does have a user setting so you can import trojan settings for the t105. Any opinions would be great .....for 675 ah bank.

Leon

The advantage of the Sterling's user setting is you can eliminate the "going to float prematurely" issue by setting the float voltage to be the same as the absorb voltage so effectively there is no longer a float mode. This is the thing to do if you are charging from a genny. If you ever plug into shore power you'd need to put it back to a sensible float voltage.

 

Trojans like a high charge voltage, at least 14.8v before temperature compensation. But remember, when being charged properly, they do use water.

 

When I first got my T105s I found them very poor, but after several cycles there was a dramatic improvement, helped by some fairly deep cycles. Unlike leisure batteries, Trojans do not mind deeper cycles and I suggest taking them down to 30% SoC on the Smartgauge for a couple of cycles - it definitely helped mine. Try to avoid leaving them in a very discharged state for any longer than necessary though.

[WotEver]

 

Any device that has a float mode will almost certainly go into float too soon.

Indeed, but there are workarounds for off-grid users as explained in the link.

[nicknorman]

Without any doubt this is the best approach for someone who is unable (either through ignorance or simply lack of charging facilities) to treat their batteries optimally.

However, OP has the Trojans and if he follows the advice in the link I supplied plus what other posters here are telling him then he stands s good chance of recovering most of the lost capacity.

In post #6 the OP mentions some specific gravity figures which seem quite good and not indicative of significant sulphation, therefore I am puzzled why people are saying capacity has been lost due to undercharging?

[WotEver]

 

And by Nick above.

In post #6 the OP mentions some specific gravity figures which seem quite good and not indicative of significant sulphation, therefore I am puzzled why people are saying capacity has been lost due to undercharging?

If the readings are correct then the only problem appears to be that OP is only charging to circa 80%

[Neil Smith]

That's your opinion Alan but a lot of cc and live aboard go for Trojans or even better 2 volt cell tractions, then look after them for years of service.

 

Neil

[MtB]

The advantage of the Sterling's user setting is you can eliminate the "going to float prematurely" issue by setting the float voltage to be the same as the absorb voltage so effectively there is no longer a float mode. This is the thing to do if you are charging from a genny. If you ever plug into shore power you'd need to put it back to a sensible float voltage.

 

My sterling Pro Charge Ultra defaults to factory settings at the end of each desulphation cycle, so I have to re-configure the custom setting next time I charge after running the desulph/equalisation cycle. Easy to forget and insanely irritating when I realise the last hour of precious genny time was on 'float', yet again...

Edited February 6, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[peterboat]

That's your opinion Alan but a lot of cc and live aboard go for Trojans or even better 2 volt cell tractions, then look after them for years of service.

 

Neil

Same here 2 volt tractions one bank already going on for 12 years old

[mrsmelly]

When I bought my last boat a widebeam it was equipped with PROPER traction batteries they each weighed 54 kilos and of course there were six of them. When I looked at the boat the owner proudly informed me that he charged them each afternoon and he stopped up watching telly each night until the inverter shut down or the batteries were showing 12 volts if he went to bed early I thought to myself oh dear but didnt care as batteries are not a deal braker with a boat. Anyway I bought it it was a fab boat and had my mate a boat electrician check the batteries...........one was knackered one was well on its way out and four were ok ish.........I had him rewire and replaced with good old cheapo 12 volt batteries and gave the batteries to local travellers to take away, sod humping them in my car and weighing them in. Anyway the moral of the story is you can buy the worlds best batteries and they will still become knackered if you do not treat them well. Hence I always go cheap and replace 2/3 yearly. The previous owner of my boat was probably running them dead flat daily then charging them up at a guesstimate of 30 ish percent.

[WotEver]

 

My sterling Pro Charge Ultra defaults to factory settings at the end of each desulphation cycle, so I have to re-configure the custom setting next time I charge after running the desulph/equalisation cycle. Easy to forget and insanely irritating when I realise the last hour of precious genny time was on 'float', yet again...

Oh how irritating. I wonder if it's worth a call to grumpy Charles to see if that 'feature' can be removed?

[MtB]

Oh how irritating. I wonder if it's worth a call to grumpy Charles to see if that 'feature' can be removed?

 

 

On reflection, what I said isn't quite right.

 

The desulphation cycle can only be entered from the default "Open Lead Acid" battery setting.

 

This means one has to abandon one's custom setting and re-select the default open lead acid battery setting in order to enter the despulphation cycle. Then on turning the charge back on next time, it remembers the 'default' setting...

Edited February 6, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[WotEver]

Still irritating.

[rowland al]

I'd recommend disconnecting each battery in turn and checking it's voltage at rest to see if there is one particular battery or cell dragging the overall capacity down. Have you checked all of of the electrolyte levels?

 

When you reconnect all the batteries check all the terminals are tight and make a solid connection. I had a similar problem a while back and it was down to poor battery connections.

 

If you are just using TV and a few LED lights, you may wish to consider dropping down to just 2 batteries. The advantage is that it will take less time to charge them to full capacity (and less to go wrong!).

[dmr]

In post #6 the OP mentions some specific gravity figures which seem quite good and not indicative of significant sulphation, therefore I am puzzled why people are saying capacity has been lost due to undercharging?

 

He says 12.65 on the centre batteries, I am guessing that he has not done the temperature compensation (how rude of me) so that's more like 12.55, so I bet on some sulphation, but not too serious. This is why I reckon it can be sorted out with an equalise. These low temperatures will take off some capacity too. If working mostly between about 50% and 85% charge (as most charges don't get to 100%) then this combined loss of capacity will be very noticeable. Going through exactly the same think myself just now. Have been down to about 55% one day when I normally don't see much lower than 70%. Certainly could not go more than one day without an engine run at the moment.

 

................Dave

[Tony Brooks]

Not tying to nit pick but to save getting specific gravity/relative density readings mixed up with voltage please can we have the decimal points in the correct place. That's 1.266 & 1.255

 

 

[dmr]

 

Not tying to nit pick but to save getting specific gravity/relative density readings mixed up with voltage please can we have the decimal points in the correct place. That's 1.266 & 1.255

 

 

 

 

Having now turned 60 and not having visited an optician for over 5 years I can no longer even see those decimal point things, let alone use them correctly. but you are right.

 

Maybe if Microsoft made hydrometers they would have an option for extra big accessible fonts. (but would be even more difficult to use)

 

..............Dave

 

............Dave

[Tony Brooks]

In my experience very few battery hydrometers even show the decimal point, it seem users are expected to know where to put it - or to only use the coloured bands. The floating ball types are even less use.

[mrsmelly]

 

Having now turned 60 and not having visited an optician for over 5 years I can no longer even see those decimal point things, let alone use them correctly. but you are right.

 

Maybe if Microsoft made hydrometers they would have an option for extra big accessible fonts. (but would be even more difficult to use)

 

..............Dave

 

............Dave

 

Haa yes....I went to mr specsaver yesterday as I hadnt been for about 5 years for updated reading glasses. Thats one of the reasons I have a NASA bm2 thingy instead of the competitors cos it has a read out sized for grown ups eyes lol.