Overstaying apparently

[MtB]

Obviously "telling" them to do so would entail providing a device which would accept this information. With your background as a computer professional, I'm sure that you could devise a way of doing that. Would it be hard?

 

 

I would say 'telling' all the data loggers to note which way each boat is facing would involve a bulk memo being sent out. Maybe ten minute's work.

 

Redesigning the software interface of their handheld terminals to add a field to record which way each boat faces would involve perhaps a week of time for a programmer, and then a couple of months of field testing and bug fixing. Yes simple to do but the cost? Perhaps £10,000.

[Paul C]

The direction a boat is pointing is completely irrelevant.

[Athy]

The direction a boat is pointing is completely irrelevant.

For those of us who are bears of little brain, could you explain that, please?

 

 

I would say 'telling' all the data loggers to note which way each boat is facing would involve a bulk memo being sent out. Maybe ten minute's work.

 

Redesigning the software interface of their handheld terminals to add a field to record which way each boat faces would involve perhaps a week of time for a programmer, and then a couple of months of field testing and bug fixing. Yes simple to do but the cost? Perhaps £10,000.

So, easy to do and financially a drop in the ocean for an organisation which earns millions of pounds a year.

[cereal tiller]

For those of us who are bears of little brain, could you explain that, please?

There are some Boats which could be turned around on a Mooring?

 

CT

[MtB]

For those of us who are bears of little brain, could you explain that, please?

 

 

I think the law does not exempt boats facing the other way from the need to keep moving from one place to another!

[Catnip King]

The best way is to use cameras to read boat registration at locks then do automatic logging. Any unreadable boats should go in a review list for enforcers. Would require a bit of investment though.

Down in London they could test it.

[Naughty Cal]

The best way is to use cameras to read boat registration at locks then do automatic logging. Any unreadable boats should go in a review list for enforcers. Would require a bit of investment though.

Down in London they could test it.

They do record boat index numbers when you go through manned locks but for some reason those records don't go into the boat logging system.

[MtB]

For those of us who are bears of little brain, could you explain that, please?

So, easy to do and financially a drop in the ocean for an organisation which earns millions of pounds a year.

 

 

Yes but why should they do it, for no discernible benefit to CRT?

[Athy]

 

 

Yes but why should they do it, for no discernible benefit to CRT?

To improve the accuracy of their logging, and thereby to help them not to make fools of themselves by sending erroneous cautions.

[Paul C]

For those of us who are bears of little brain, could you explain that, please?

 

 

 

 

I think the law does not exempt boats facing the other way from the need to keep moving from one place to another!

 

Pretty much. As far as useful evidence goes, the direction a boat is facing is meaningless. Its often easy to turn a boat around somewhere; and some boaters have no real issues with reversing, so you can't really infer that a boat has been to a different place in the meantime, simply from facing the opposite direction. And of course, its possible that a boat had been to a different place, turned round, then another separate place (ie A--B--C--A), then returned facing the same direction as originally. The real issue is that CRT can only reasonably check boats at one instant of time; and if there's a pattern of that check always revealing it being in the same place, then they (falsely, in many cases) infer that its not been in a different place in the meantime. This is easily resolved by keeping an accurate log (the laws states it is the boater's responsibility to satisfy CRT...etc). Any other solution requires either a law change, or MUCH more intrusive boat movement/location monitoring, eg CCTV, ANPR, trackers, many more enforcement officers, etc etc.

[MtB]

To improve the accuracy of their logging, and thereby to help them not to make fools of themselves by sending erroneous cautions.

 

 

I disgree. I think it would reduce the effectiveness of 'enforcement'.

 

Once boaters learn they can fool the CRT logging system simply by turning the boat around, CRT will begin to look even more foolish than the current logging method makes them.

[dmr]

The direction a boat is pointing is completely irrelevant.

 

When we got our last "please continue your journey" email I really was pointing the wrong way. I had just come out of the wet dock and reversed down a lock to a VM to continue doing a bit of work on the portholes for a couple of days. My plan was then to reverse down the next lock to a winding hole and continue my journey in the direction I wasn't facing. Though the next bit of the plan was to visit a a pump out then wind again, returning to that some mooring for a night and then continue in the direction that I was originally facing. CCing is not always a simple unidirectional progressive journey.

 

................Dave

[MtB]

 

When we got our last "please continue your journey" email I really was pointing the wrong way. I had just come out of the wet dock and reversed down a lock to a VM to continue doing a bit of work on the portholes for a couple of days. My plan was then to reverse down the next lock to a winding hole and continue my journey in the direction I wasn't facing. Though the next bit of the plan was to visit a a pump out then wind again, returning to that some mooring for a night and then continue in the direction that I was originally facing. CCing is not always a simple unidirectional progressive journey.

 

................Dave

 

 

Surely it would have been easy enough to account for that in the CRT boat tracking programming!

[ditchcrawler]

Since starting out in west London in April we have been up the GU to the Oxford Canal, down the South Oxford as far as Banbury, back up the Oxford canal to the Coventry canal, up the Coventry to the Birmingham & Fazely, up the Trent & Mersey to the Maclesfield, upto the end of the Peak Forest, back down to the T&M onto the Shropshire Union, onto the Staff & Worcestershire, back down the T&M Birmingham & Fazely, Coventry and GU down to Milton Keynes.

I think I may have just about covered the C&RT range of 20 miles. Funny though I don't remember getting thanks for continuous crushing email then, I just get warning one for visiting the same spot 3 weeks in a row; apparently I haven't been moving enough.

I can see your point, this however obviously doesn't take into account where my boat has been over the last year. They must only flag up the boat numbers if spotted twice in the same location regardless of the data they must have of previous sightings

 

From the list of travels above it is obvious that I have been CCing all summer, now that it is winter we are cruising still but over less distance, on account of its bloody cold.

The computer only highlights when you are sighted at the same spot to much. In your case this was three consecutive weeks, had your class been on a different day you wouldn't have been moored there on the day the checker recorded your position. There are no records to show that you moved between these days so the computer assumes you didn't. Just ring them.

 

How often do you see boaters post "That boat was moored there when I passed 3 weeks ago" they don't know if its been there all the time or travelled 12 miles every day.

 

 

Surely it would have been easy enough to account for that in the CRT boat tracking programming!

The man just enters your number as he passes you.

[Mike Todd]

I (as an long term IT person) am not sure how straightforward it is to record 'direction'. Of course, with a suitable handheld having a built in compass then it would possible to point it in the right direction in order to record a compass point. However, this is still quite complex to gain reliability - where does the operator stand and how do they point it? Presumably it would have to be in terms of 'stand at the pointy end and look towards the blunt end'.

 

What is much harder is to record the direction reliably in terms that boaters normally understand eg 'going towards Bulls Bridge'.

 

The problem overall is how to define 'direction' in a way that allows the data input person just to select from a set of options eg a drop down menu.

 

The option of having regular distance posts (as on a motorway) indicating direction is clearly not feasible.

 

I am unconvinced that the task of recording 'direction' (in a way that ultimately would stand scrutiny in court) is low cost.

[system 4-50]

I (as an long term IT person) am not sure how straightforward it is to record 'direction'. Of course, with a suitable handheld having a built in compass then it would possible to point it in the right direction in order to record a compass point. However, this is still quite complex to gain reliability - where does the operator stand and how do they point it? Presumably it would have to be in terms of 'stand at the pointy end and look towards the blunt end'.

 

What is much harder is to record the direction reliably in terms that boaters normally understand eg 'going towards Bulls Bridge'.

 

The problem overall is how to define 'direction' in a way that allows the data input person just to select from a set of options eg a drop down menu.

 

The option of having regular distance posts (as on a motorway) indicating direction is clearly not feasible.

 

I am unconvinced that the task of recording 'direction' (in a way that ultimately would stand scrutiny in court) is low cost.

Press the left button to record pointing in the direction of the logging walk. Press the right button to record the opposite. Press the middle button for don't know/abnormal situations.

[FadeToScarlet]

Press the left button to record pointing in the direction of the logging walk. Press the right button to record the opposite. Press the middle button for don't know/abnormal situations.

Or, have a drop down menu- "pointing towards"- with the Functional Location codes either side of the one being logged in it, to select the appropriate one.

[Paul C]

Defining the direction and recording it isn't complicated but there's obviously a cost associated with changing systems to accept it. For example they could easily "map" the network out with a bunch of nodes and canals in between, the nodes being the junctions and the "end of canal" too. Then the direction would be from "node 1" to "node 2", for example direction of boat = from Barbridge to Hurleston jn. However, its completely meaningless, because an interpretation is required to deduce the journey given the direction; and an accurate calculation of the actual journey(s) done previously needs MUCH more info than simply a direction, to be anywhere near reliable. Basically it needs sightings frequencies to be an order of magnitude greater, which given its done manually, would cost an order of magnitude more. Do we really want £10-15m of CRT's budget spend on enforcement/monitoring?

[Murflynn]

Can't see why not. I've seen those too, at least its clear. But where it does not say that what are the rules? When you have had the 14 days how long before you're allowed to come back for another 14?

err ..... the following year.

[Bewildered]

The man just enters your number as he passes you.

I say, steady on! I'm all for a progressive society but he could at least offer to buy me a drink first ?

[ditchcrawler]

I say, steady on! I'm all for a progressive society but he could at least offer to buy me a drink first

One to you

Defining the direction and recording it isn't complicated but there's obviously a cost associated with changing systems to accept it. For example they could easily "map" the network out with a bunch of nodes and canals in between, the nodes being the junctions and the "end of canal" too. Then the direction would be from "node 1" to "node 2", for example direction of boat = from Barbridge to Hurleston jn. However, its completely meaningless, because an interpretation is required to deduce the journey given the direction; and an accurate calculation of the actual journey(s) done previously needs MUCH more info than simply a direction, to be anywhere near reliable. Basically it needs sightings frequencies to be an order of magnitude greater, which given its done manually, would cost an order of magnitude more. Do we really want £10-15m of CRT's budget spend on enforcement/monitoring?

Is it really a problem. How many section 8s because the boat was facing the wrong way. Maybe a text or email, but surly a reply sorts it out.

[FadeToScarlet]

Defining the direction and recording it isn't complicated but there's obviously a cost associated with changing systems to accept it. For example they could easily "map" the network out with a bunch of nodes and canals in between, the nodes being the junctions and the "end of canal" too. Then the direction would be from "node 1" to "node 2", for example direction of boat = from Barbridge to Hurleston jn.

They already have this, in SAPS or whatever system they've moved to, using Functional Location codes I believe for every 1km stretch of Canal, and every asset they have.

 

Edit: so pragmatically I'd say the minimum distance to move is 1km, to make sure you're in a different code every time.

Edited December 16, 2016 by FadeToScarlet

[mayalld]

 

 

I would say 'telling' all the data loggers to note which way each boat is facing would involve a bulk memo being sent out. Maybe ten minute's work.

 

Redesigning the software interface of their handheld terminals to add a field to record which way each boat faces would involve perhaps a week of time for a programmer, and then a couple of months of field testing and bug fixing. Yes simple to do but the cost? Perhaps £10,000.

 

The costs of redesigning the logging software are fairly minor. The bigger problem comes in redesigning the underlying data structures, and that can be a MUCH bigger job

[Machpoint005]

A stretch of canal has precisely two ends. Why is it so difficult to designate them "1" and "2"?

[Dave Payne]

They do record boat index numbers when you go through manned locks but for some reason those records don't go into the boat logging system.

Never seen any lockies record my number.