13 year old non swimmer drowns

[Captain Pegg]

Sorry a senior it should have been included with my comment but somehow the last paragraph got deleted when sent the comment.

 

Very astute of you to find it. and 10/10 for a direct hit! But actually it is an acronym of - No ones dropped dead yet - and a figment of my imagination - he's a fictitious person and my opponent when I call for proposals to improve safety that fall on deaf ears.

In the CRT scenario, he would advocate absolutely no signs anywhere an accident hasn't happened - regardless of any risk assessment.

Aha. Like it. I figured it was a made up name if not persona but I am disappointed I didn't spot the acronym. It might have helped if I had remembered it correctly when I wrote it.

 

After all there is only one Noddy and he's from Walsall. Oh wait there's that strange little fella from Toyland as well.

 

JP

[PaulG]

Sorry a senior it should have been included with my comment but somehow the last paragraph got deleted when sent the comment.

 

Very astute of you to find it. and 10/10 for a direct hit! But actually it is an acronym of - No ones dropped dead yet - and a figment of my imagination - he's a fictitious person and my opponent when I call for proposals to improve safety that fall on deaf ears.

In the CRT scenario, he would advocate absolutely no signs anywhere an accident hasn't happened - regardless of any risk assessment.

There is the argument that signs don't actually contribute much to safety.

 

For example, the lad that was killed when he tried to cycle over one of the footbridges over the staircase locks in Stourport, in spite of signs that advised cyclists not to attempt do so.

 

This resulted in scaffolding temporary handrails being installed PDQ at similar footbridges on the Staff & Worcs.

[Horace42]

There is the argument that signs don't actually contribute much to safety.

 

For example, the lad that was killed when he tried to cycle over one of the footbridges over the staircase locks in Stourport, in spite of signs that advised cyclists not to attempt do so.

 

This resulted in scaffolding temporary handrails being installed PDQ at similar footbridges on the Staff & Worcs.

Is that the bottom lock on to the Severn? the one with the narrow channel, about a foot wide,across the top end? It is not surprising someone fell off - bike or not - and obviously risky - even with a sign. My wife refused to walk across it, commenting "that is dangerous there ought to be a hand rail"even though I reached out with my hand from the other side to steady her.

[PaulG]

Is that the bottom lock on to the Severn? the one with the narrow channel, about a foot wide,across the top end? It is not surprising someone fell off - bike or not - and obviously risky - even with a sign. My wife refused to walk across it, commenting "that is dangerous there ought to be a hand rail"even though I reached out with my hand from the other side to steady her.

That's the one:

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/09/09/fatal-bridge-where-boy-12-fell-to-his-death-in-line-for-safety-work/

[Jennifer McM]

A few years ago I was shocked listening to an Olympic swimmer on the radio, he said that (from my memory) 98% of children that drown can swim. Children that can't swim will avoid water. It''s the kids that can swim will put themselves in danger by usually being over confident of their swimming abilities.

 

I can't find evidence of this on the internet, but I did find "Good swimmers drown more often than non-swimmers" http://www.worldconferenceondrowningprevention2011.org/SiteMedia/w3svc1092/Uploads/Documents/WCDP2011_Swim&WS_Hindmarch_p222_Abstract.pdf

 

I'm not advocating not to teach children to swim, but to advise teaching children to have more respect of water. Granted I understand this child couldn't swim.

[furnessvale]

A few years ago I was shocked listening to an Olympic swimmer on the radio, he said that (from my memory) 98% of children that drown can swim. Children that can't swim will avoid water. It''s the kids that can swim will put themselves in danger by usually being over confident of their swimming abilities.

 

I can't find evidence of this on the internet, but I did find "Good swimmers drown more often than non-swimmers" http://www.worldconferenceondrowningprevention2011.org/SiteMedia/w3svc1092/Uploads/Documents/WCDP2011_Swim&WS_Hindmarch_p222_Abstract.pdf

 

I'm not advocating not to teach children to swim, but to advise teaching children to have more respect of water. Granted I understand this child couldn't swim.

And here's me thinking you only drown once!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Jennifer McM]

And here's me thinking you only drown once!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

LOL>>>

[mross]

People who swim regularly are more exposed to the dangers so it is not surprising that they drown more often than non-swimmers. It's a bit like saying people in brightly-coloured swimwear get attacked by sharks more often than people wearing black swimwear. This is because the majority of people wear coloured swimwear.

 

Children should learn to swim in case they fall in.

[Jerra]

Children should learn to swim in case they fall in.

Having fallen in as a fully dressed child they need to learn to swim in clothing. I was able to swim but at one point it was touch and go.

[Athy]

Great minds, again. It is one thing to be able to swim well whilst wearing only a bathing costume or trunks; but add trousers, socks, shoes and (at this time of year) two or three layers of top clothing, and buoyancy becomes far more difficult to maintain.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Athy

[Alan de Enfield]

Great minds, again. It is one thing to be able to swim well whilst wearing only a bathing costume or trunks; but add trousers, socks, shoes and (at this time of year) two or three layers of top clothing, and buoyancy becomes far more difficult to maintain.

 

As a child (some 'few' years ago) our school swimming lessons included swimming in clothing - we also had to tread water 'clothed', be able to remove our trousers, tie a knot in the end of the legs, and swing the trousers over our heads to 'inflate' the legs, making a 'lifejacket'. then swim down the pool using the life jacket.

 

As a matter of interest, in a recent 'Ray Mears' survival programme he did exactly the same when crossing a large lake - having to stop and tread water part way across to replace air that had leaked out.

 

Kids of today - what do they know !!!!

[Athy]

 

As a child (some 'few' years ago) our school swimming lessons included swimming in clothing - we also had to tread water 'clothed', be able to remove our trousers, tie a knot in the end of the legs, and swing the trousers over our heads to 'inflate' the legs, making a 'lifejacket'. then swim down the pool using the life jacket.

 

 

I can remember doing this - I think it was an element of the Boy Scouts' "Life Saver" badge. From memory, I had to swim a length of the swimming bath (25 yards) wearing pyjamas over my trunks. I can't remember whether I had to tread water and remove them. So it was rudimentary, but a step in the right direction.

[Jerra]

 

As a child (some 'few' years ago) our school swimming lessons included swimming in clothing - we also had to tread water 'clothed', be able to remove our trousers, tie a knot in the end of the legs, and swing the trousers over our heads to 'inflate' the legs, making a 'lifejacket'. then swim down the pool using the life jacket.

 

As a matter of interest, in a recent 'Ray Mears' survival programme he did exactly the same when crossing a large lake - having to stop and tread water part way across to replace air that had leaked out.

 

Kids of today - what do they know !!!!

I had undergone just such swimming lessons at school and went swimming every week as well. There was one heck of a difference between swimming in pyjamas in a pool and dropping into cold dark water fully clothed wearing shoes.

 

I don't know quite how you would train a kid for that but for them to be safe from accident that is really what they need.

[WotEver]

From memory, I had to swim a length of the swimming bath (25 yards) wearing pyjamas over my trunks.

The height of sartorial elegance

 

Careful, you could start a trend.

[Athy]

The height of sartorial elegance

 

Careful, you could start a trend.

Well, Superman has worn his underpants over his trousers for years, and he gets away with it.

[ditchcrawler]

 

As a child (some 'few' years ago) our school swimming lessons included swimming in clothing - we also had to tread water 'clothed', be able to remove our trousers, tie a knot in the end of the legs, and swing the trousers over our heads to 'inflate' the legs, making a 'lifejacket'. then swim down the pool using the life jacket.

 

As a matter of interest, in a recent 'Ray Mears' survival programme he did exactly the same when crossing a large lake - having to stop and tread water part way across to replace air that had leaked out.

 

Kids of today - what do they know !!!!

That was one of the requirements for the school sailing club before you could take a dingy out.

[Ray T]

How are canals (with or without locks) any different to rivers, which are often much deeper with far more dangerous currents?

 

Do we put warning signs saying "Danger, water may cause drowning" every 100 feet or so along every river more than a few feet deep?

 

 

 

Just for information, there are a couple of these signs along side the Coventry Canal at the Gallagher Retail Park.

 

Admittedly the canal is in a cutting hidden behind lots of bushes, so it is not obvious it is there.

 

[Laurie Booth]

I very nearly drowned at the age of 5 when I fell into a settlement pond and had to be pulled out by older children. I think it's as a result of this that I have never learned to swim despite many attempts.

Then I bought a boat.

How daft am I?

More swimmers drown than non swimmers.

[WotEver]

More swimmers drown than non swimmers.

 

Only because there are a heck of a lot more of them swimming.

[ditchcrawler]

Just read they are putting a memorial up at Bristol where people keep getting drowned and there are calls to improve things to stop people falling in. I don't know what they can do as I still remember walking along the railings on the sea wall at Wells after having a few sherbets. The railings are to stop people falling in.

[Sea Dog]

Just read they are putting a memorial up at Bristol where people keep getting drowned and there are calls to improve things to stop people falling in. I don't know what they can do as I still remember walking along the railings on the sea wall at Wells after having a few sherbets. The railings are to stop people falling in.

 

Tough one, isn't it. If folk are so p1ssed they can't avoid falling into a very obvious river, canal, or dock, and having done so are in no condition to help themselves, the problem surely isn't really the landscape. Sad though the issue is, fencing off huge swathes of waterfront in Bristol, Bath, Durham, etc, etc, that everyone else manages to avoid plunging into with no trouble whatsoever by both day and night seems a little like condoning irresponsibility to me. Hidden dangers and unexpected hazards are a different matter, I hasten to add.

[Laurie Booth]

 

Only because there are a heck of a lot more of them swimming.

Proves that swimming is dangerous

[WotEver]

Proves that swimming is dangerous

I like your logic

[Horace42]

I touched on this point earlier in the thread. Risk assessments used for safety events such as this are quantitative, i.e. numerately calculated, so they require clearly stated frequencies and outcomes for any single event to calculate the risk.

 

In this case of an accident to a member of the public in a lock there will be evidence from accident reports about frequency and the risk matrix will assign the 'probability' of an event in terms of it occuring say weekly, monthly, annually, 2-5 years or greater than 5 years. In the case of an accident in a lock lets say it's a monthly occurrence.

 

The outcome would be selected from options such as multiple death, multiple serious injury/single death, single serious injury, multiple minor injury, minor injury (I think that's pretty much what CRTs own matrix says). The realistic worst potential outcome here is single death.

 

You have introduced something that isn't numerated in a useful way although if rescue happens routinely and successfully it would influence the outcome such that the evidence would be that people don't drown in locks but suffer serious or maybe even minor injury instead. The danger is not to allow a semantic notion of would could happen unduly influence the evidence of what does happen in a favourable way. There is good evidence in this particular case that it is a false premise.

 

In reality drowning at a lock is a relatively high risk - quite possibly responsible for the largest single number of deaths on CRT property - but the event isn't one they are generally directly responsible for. Otherwise there would be significantly enhanced safety precautions. Where you will see enhanced safety precautions is where the risk is deemed to be greatest within the lock population e.g. large river locks which are invariably protected by barriers.

 

JP

Aye,aye, Cap'n. Thanks for taking the trouble to explain it to me, it is appreciate.

[furnessvale]

Proves that swimming is dangerous

Exactly the way I feel about hospitals.

 

Have you seen how many people die in those places?

 

George ex nb Alton retired