Ive broken my Engine, ideas needed

[dmr]

Ive just broken my JD3. Next step is to get injection pump off and down to main agent but any other ideas would be very welcome before I do that.

Engine running fine.

Changed both fuel filters (done this many many times before)

Engine started on second go (unusual, always starts instantly) but running horrid.

Worked out it was running on only one or one and a bit cylinders.

Checked everything, rebled system, cracked injector lines.

Fuel injected on cyl 3, no fuel on cyl 2, a little bit on cyl 1.

 

Changed filters again, checked all fuel lines, including return.

Engine started rough then came good and ran fine for ten minutes. Was able to get full speed in gear (don't tell CaRT). Then it dropped back to one cylinder.

Fitted new lift pump. Still running on one cylinder.

I am thinking it must be injection pump.

But, I believe Stanadyne pumps usually run on all or none, rather than just one cylinder.

Also, assuming I somehow got crap into the fuel line the problem started so quickly it wouldbarely have had time to get to the injection pump.

Help, ideas welcome.

I don't want to spend £100's on an injection pump overhaul if i've missed something obvious.

 

one other thing, exhaust has got just a little louder of late but I have assumed this is just a baffle failing.

 

..................Dave

[MtB]

Ive just broken my JD3.

 

 

Odd, I thought you had a BD3 like I had.

 

Discount any observations I've made. They related to my BD3.

[RLWP]

Did you turn the fuel on after the filter change?

 

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

My money is sucking air in somewhere

[RLWP]

My money is sucking air in somewhere

E.g. Badly fitted filter

 

Richard

[lawzy]

kinked or blocked fuel lines from diesel bug? (I'm used to car engines and it wasn't till I bought a boat that I even heard of diesel bug)
Blocked or dying injectors? add something like redex to the fuel and pray it works or take them out and get them cleaned or replaced.

Might be a messy job to do but maybe get an air line and try blowing air through them backwards if its gunk you may spray it out.

Edit: should probs of mentioned to do this on pipes that you have disconnected on both ends, you wouldnt wanna push any muck back into the tank.

 

Hope you get your engine sorted asap.

 

Lawzy.

Edited March 26, 2016 by lawzy

[zenataomm]

Is this a Beta? ......... I know nothing about Betas.

 

But I guess you've got an air lock.

Rig up an air compressor through a large bung jammed into your fuel filler to pressurise the tank and fuel lines.

 

The idea being to force the fuel through to all three injectors.

Not something I'd recommend really, especially if you use paper filters, but a common trick used by fitters on road vehicles.

 

Also if you do have a fuel leak which is in turn sucking in air you'll soon spot it.

[MtB]

Fuel injected on cyl 3, no fuel on cyl 2, a little bit on cyl 1.

<snip>

I am thinking it must be injection pump.

 

Hard to believe the injection pump can deliver exactly the right fuel on every third stroke, but not on the other two.

 

My money is on the distributor playing up.

 

Not that I have a clue about the JD3.

[Tiggs]

Put the old filters back in. Check the new ones are identical.

[jenlyn]

I'd say air. Bear in mind it started "after" your work. Don't lose sight of that.

[Loafer]

Sorry dmr. Can't help, but I feel your pain.

 

BD3 owner.

[Klanky]

Long shot, but.....

 

Do you have a spare injector? If so, swap out each one in turn and see if the problem disappears.

[dmr]

Long shot, but.....

 

Do you have a spare injector? If so, swap out each one in turn and see if the problem disappears.

 

I think I have a complete set of injectors somewhere on the boat but I just can't find them. However it does look like the pump is not delivering fuel to the injectors.

 

Richard....have checked the fuel cock yet again and its still on, and the lift pump prime lever delivers fuel to the injection pump.

 

...............Dave

[Albion]

 

I think I have a complete set of injectors somewhere on the boat but I just can't find them. However it does look like the pump is not delivering fuel to the injectors.

 

Richard....have checked the fuel cock yet again and its still on, and the lift pump prime lever delivers fuel to the injection pump.

 

...............Dave

Which could be air in the system as others have said so have you ensured that you have eliminated that? Something as simple as the small top O ring under the head of the bowl-securing bolt on, say, a CAV filter assembly can give you problems. Don't ask me how I know. Just because you have changed filters before doesn't necessarily rule out the fact that you may have got an air leak this time. Also, ask yourself logically, is it likely that a pump would suddenly give up the ghost at exactly the same time as you changed some filters if you had no problems beforehand and had a period afterwards when it ran OK for 10 minutes. It's not impossible but, surely, very unlikely.

Roger

[monkeyhanger]

Put the old filters back in. Check the new ones are identical.

How long have you had the "new" filters? The reason I ask is that I had a problem trying to light my Kabola diesel stove last year, and assumed it was a blocked in-line filter. After putting in a new Delphi 296 filter ( one of a dozen I'd bought years ago on ebay) there was no improvement. After spending hours checking every other possible solution, I replaced the filter I'd just put in with the last of my "ebay" batch. Still no improvement. After quite a bit of discussion and head scratching witha friend moored next door, he produced a brand new Crosland filter, and hey presto, the boiler worked perfectly.

I suspect that the filters that I had had for a few years had absorbed some dampness from the atmosphere, causing the paper elements to swell, and preventing diesel getting through. ( I have to add that is was NOT the fact that Crosland filters may or may not be better than Delphi !)

How long have you had the filters? Have they been stored in a potentially damp atmosphere, such as on a boat? Might be worth a check.

[RLWP]

It's an air leak some where. My trusty SR2 did this to me today on one of two simple joints. I fixed it by taking thrm apart and putting them back together. I still don't know which joint it was

 

Richard

[dmr]

It's an air leak some where. My trusty SR2 did this to me today on one of two simple joints. I fixed it by taking thrm apart and putting them back together. I still don't know which joint it was

 

Richard

 

I like the air leak idea, anything that avoids an injection pump overhaul I would like a lot.

Fuel system is Tank- Stop Cock- First Filter - Lift pump with priming lever - Second Filter - Injection Pump.

 

Surely an air leak would have to be on the suction side before the lift pump? but the pump sucks ok with the lever and sends a good gulp of fuel out of the second filter. Any leak after the lift pump would be a fuel leak. I will investigate further in the morning.

 

Engine has done 8000 hours, fuel system has done 14000 hours, so there is potential for build up of stuff in fuel lines maybe?, I did find a very slightly perished rubber seal in a spill rail union but there are no rubber seals on the supply side.

 

...................Dave

 

................Dave

[RLWP]

The basic rules when something goes wrong is - what did you work on last

 

Richard

[dmr]

How long have you had the "new" filters? The reason I ask is that I had a problem trying to light my Kabola diesel stove last year, and assumed it was a blocked in-line filter. After putting in a new Delphi 296 filter ( one of a dozen I'd bought years ago on ebay) there was no improvement. After spending hours checking every other possible solution, I replaced the filter I'd just put in with the last of my "ebay" batch. Still no improvement. After quite a bit of discussion and head scratching witha friend moored next door, he produced a brand new Crosland filter, and hey presto, the boiler worked perfectly.

I suspect that the filters that I had had for a few years had absorbed some dampness from the atmosphere, causing the paper elements to swell, and preventing diesel getting through. ( I have to add that is was NOT the fact that Crosland filters may or may not be better than Delphi !)

How long have you had the filters? Have they been stored in a potentially damp atmosphere, such as on a boat? Might be worth a check.

 

I usually buy several filters at a time so they do sit around on the boat in the parts cupboard for quite a while.

I did a second change of both filters but they are probably of the same age.

Trouble is I am seeing a decent flow of fuel when I work the priming lever which suggests filters are ok.

Also the one or one and a half cylinder firing thing is across the speed range. If it was restricted fuel flow I would expect it to get worse at higher speeds.

 

...............Dave

[OldGoat]

it may seem daft at this late juncture - and I'm not going to re-read this thread (sorry) 'oc the Management is about to summon me.....

BUT did you check the injectors for a clear pattern / nasty marks on the outside / dribbles??

 

The dinner gong has just gone.....

[MtB]

Checked everything, rebled system, cracked injector lines.

Fuel injected on cyl 3, no fuel on cyl 2, a little bit on cyl 1.

 

 

This bit troubles me. How many times did you turn the engine over whilst getting 'a little bit on cyl 1'?

 

I'd suggest starting the engine then cracking the injector line on cylinder 1 with the engine running quite fast, and purge loads of fuel out. There is a far better chance of any trapped air being ejected with the engine running at speed I'd imagine.

 

Is the fuel from injector line 1 clear but with just low flow, or is there any evidence of entrained air?

[Guest]

 

 

This bit troubles me. How many times did you turn the engine over whilst getting 'a little bit on cyl 1'?

 

I'd suggest starting the engine then cracking the injector line on cylinder 1 with the engine running quite fast, and purge loads of fuel out. There is a far better chance of any trapped air being ejected with the engine running at speed I'd imagine.

 

Is the fuel from injector line 1 clear but with just low flow, or is there any evidence of entrained air?

That is what my mate did to get water out of our fuel lines after a disaster. I suspect any air would be purged in a similar way.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

This bit troubles me. How many times did you turn the engine over whilst getting 'a little bit on cyl 1'?

 

I'd suggest starting the engine then cracking the injector line on cylinder 1 with the engine running quite fast, and purge loads of fuel out. There is a far better chance of any trapped air being ejected with the engine running at speed I'd imagine.

 

Is the fuel from injector line 1 clear but with just low flow, or is there any evidence of entrained air?

That is what I would do as well working round all 3 cylinders, It could be air in the injector pump.

[MtB]

That is what my mate did to get water out of our fuel lines after a disaster. I suspect any air would be purged in a similar way.

 

 

Yes and if the method works and gets it running on two cylinders, no3 should respond similarly...

[dmr]

I am not very brave when it comes to cracking injector lines, I have heard tales of nasty accidents.

I undo the big nut a little, wrap it well in kitchen roll, then start the engine, run it up to medium revs, then stop and see how wet the kitchen roll is. I am not brave enough to watch the fuel coming out, am I been silly? I did not wrap the union too well on one cylinder and it shot fuel all over the place.

 

Sub topic, its not bog standard kitchen roll, its Regina Blitz. I used to swear by "blue paper" but I think the quality went right down hill about 10 years ago and I reckon "Blitz" is better than the modern second rate blue paper. Its also of strong non-fibre construction so does not leave little strand behind to get into the fuel system.

 

................Dave