Ive broken my Engine, ideas needed

[MtB]

 

I bet it helped dissolve the spanner-eating sludge under the Gleniffer

 

Richard

 

 

Ah yes, that reminds me why I never changed the oil in it. The suff was leaking out at about a litre an hour...

(although after adding about 25 litres I started catching it and pourin' it back in.)

[crossley]

Check the return line back to the tank, that's caught me out many times, air cannot escape and builds up it the filter and pump causing erratic running. On some filter heads there is a little spring loaded valve in the return line,look at that also. Check the engine stop control too.

Think logically and prove things one stage at a time before condemning the injection pump.

[Alan de Enfield]

Ah yes, that reminds me why I never changed the oil in it. The suff was leaking out at about a litre an hour...(although after adding about 25 litres I started catching it and pourin' it back in.)

I had an old Norton that used to do an 'oilchange overnight', had to catch the oil and put it back in each morning.

[dmr]

Check the return line back to the tank, that's caught me out many times, air cannot escape and builds up it the filter and pump causing erratic running. On some filter heads there is a little spring loaded valve in the return line,look at that also. Check the engine stop control too.

Think logically and prove things one stage at a time before condemning the injection pump.

 

Have checked the return line and its fine. Interesting as it did block in the summer which did give very poor running. It blocked with a slimy brown stuff which I don't think was diesel bug, (unless its a local attack), as have not seen anything in filters. Just found some of the same stuff on top of the injectors in the return line unions.

 

Engine stop is solenoid on injection pump. I have just started thinking about things like this as injectors are tested fine (ish) and injection pump man says cylinder faults are rare on rotary pumps. Pump is getting stripped/inspected right now.

 

As we are close to a Stanadyne agent here (only three proper agents in the country) and as we travel extensively in the summer including a fair bit of rivers I decided that the pump needs checking over anyway, especially as I have found slime in the injector return.

 

................Dave

[p6rob]

I had a similar problem with my BMC 1.5 last time I changed the filter. I could get what I thought was a decent amount of fuel through the lift pump. Despite this, the engine would barely run,

After much faffing, thinking what else it could possibly be, it turned out I'd put the top seal in incorrectly and it was sucking in air.

In my defense, the old seal came out on top of the filter, so that's how I refitted it. Of course, with the benefit of hindsight, this meant it didn't seal the housing properly, though I couldn't detect a leak at the time.

Anyway, once I'd taken the filter out and put the seal in the housing, then added the filter, it bled through easily and ran like a dream.

 

As has been said by others, if your engine ran well before the filter change and now the injectors are testing ok, I'd suggest looking again at that filter..

 

Rob

[peterboat]

I wonder if the brown slimy stuff is bio diesel dissolving seals? Just a thought

[dmr]

Seals did look mostly ok but will look in more detail tomorrow, rubber seals mostly in return line but there is one in the supply line.

Or maybe degrading/swollen rubber fuel hose????

 

.................Dave

[Bod]

Off the wall, thought. When were the tappets last checked/adjusted?

 

Bod

[dmr]

Off the wall, thought. When were the tappets last checked/adjusted?

 

Bod

 

That's not totally off the wall, it would explain some of the symptoms. I did the tappets a few months ago but I thought of this too and was tempted to take the top off and check them, but I am sure this is a fuel issue. Problem came on suddenly (after I changed the filters) and tappets wouldn't do that...unless the rocker shaft had a sudden movement. Have thought of a snapped camshaft too (dreaming up more and more silly theories) but it runs on cylinder 3 which is furthest from the camshaft drive. Rotating engine by hand shows good compression on all cylinders.

 

...............Dave

[bargemast]

Off the wall, thought. When were the tappets last checked/adjusted?

 

Bod

 

Even if the tappets aren't 100% properly adjusted, that doesn't explain why an engine that was running fine before a fuel filter change, doesn't want to run anymore as soon as the change is done.

 

Peter.

[Loafer]

Dave, how about contacting Richard Milligan, known as 'Blackhand' up here on the Shroppie? He's known for being very reasonably priced, and will travel, providing he gets his costs paid. I don't know where you are though. I can PM you his phone number if you like.

[peterboat]

Seals did look mostly ok but will look in more detail tomorrow, rubber seals mostly in return line but there is one in the supply line.

Or maybe degrading/swollen rubber fuel hose????

 

.................Dave

It is worth a thought as bio diesel is know for eating seals/hoses and changing the filters might have moved some "stuff"

[crossley]

The clue is in your earlier post about the exhaust sounding louder than usual, this being the engine struggling to get enough fuel to maintain the desired speed, some cylinders working harder than others. Once you've proven the pump has everything it needs to function but won't, then look to the pump.

The brown slime is a concern, how is it getting past the filters? The back leakage from the injectors should be gradually washing anything untoward back down the return line.did you crack open the return line at the filter head whilst running? Did anything come out? Any difference?

We were all just trying to eliminate possibilities before removing the pump unnecessarily. Let us know the outcome.

[Bod]

Not knowing this engine, the only advice I can offer is, "Back to basics"

Does it , suck, squeeze, bang, blow. at the right time, in the right places?

Do I recall, an engine that the timing gear on the crankshaft had slipped, resulting in, the timing by the marks being correct, but wrong to the actual piston position.

Is there anything that could alter, between cylinders? Between camshaft, and injector pump?

 

When was the last fresh diesel put in the tank?

 

Bod

[MtB]

Not knowing this engine, the only advice I can offer is, "Back to basics"

Does it , suck, squeeze, bang, blow. at the right time, in the right places?

Do I recall, an engine that the timing gear on the crankshaft had slipped, resulting in, the timing by the marks being correct, but wrong to the actual piston position.

Is there anything that could alter, between cylinders? Between camshaft, and injector pump?

 

When was the last fresh diesel put in the tank?

 

Bod

 

 

None of this explains the visibly different amounts of fuel squirted by each of the three injector pipes.

[dmr]

Not knowing this engine, the only advice I can offer is, "Back to basics"

Does it , suck, squeeze, bang, blow. at the right time, in the right places?

Do I recall, an engine that the timing gear on the crankshaft had slipped, resulting in, the timing by the marks being correct, but wrong to the actual piston position.

Is there anything that could alter, between cylinders? Between camshaft, and injector pump?

 

When was the last fresh diesel put in the tank?

 

Bod

 

Its a big strong engine with big timing gears, little potential for things to slip, and it runs well on one cylinder. Fresh fuel a week ago from reputable fuel boat...and it runs well on one cylinder. Hopefully will hear about injection pump inspection tomorrow.

I promise to keep forum updated, even if it results in personal embarrassment!

 

Need to sort this out quickly, battery charging and hot water now sorted but am rapidly becoming a K&A continues moorer and getting very attached to the local pub, tomorrow is Wednesday...cheap beer night for real ales.

 

...................Dave

[Loafer]

 

Its a big strong engine with big timing gears, little potential for things to slip, and it runs well on one cylinder. Fresh fuel a week ago from reputable fuel boat...and it runs well on one cylinder. Hopefully will hear about injection pump inspection tomorrow.

I promise to keep forum updated, even if it results in personal embarrassment!

 

Need to sort this out quickly, battery charging and hot water now sorted but am rapidly becoming a K&A continues moorer and getting very attached to the local pub, tomorrow is Wednesday...cheap beer night for real ales.

 

...................Dave

 

Which ones? I hope there's a drop of 6X or 'Henry' to be had!

[dmr]

 

 

None of this explains the visibly different amounts of fuel squirted by each of the three injector pipes.

 

A bad injector can do that (according to the www) but all injectors are now tested and ok, Stanadyne man says fault on one (or two) cylinders on a rotary pump is very rare but I should know more very soon.

 

................Dave

[dmr]

 

Which ones? I hope there's a drop of 6X or 'Henry' to be had!

 

The Waterfront, a tiny upstairs bar in the old wharf building, runs 4 real ales mostly from local micro breweries, no 6X, but they do often do Sharps if you like the big names. Quite a few from Plain Ales (Salisbury Plain micro).

I suspect you will like the K&A, if I cant fix this engine we might still be at Pewsey when you get here.

 

................Dave

[Bod]

 

 

None of this explains the visibly different amounts of fuel squirted by each of the three injector pipes.

Was the "squirt" pressure noticably different on 1-2 compared to 3?

Does seem to point to a problem in the pump, in the pump are there any areas common to 1-2 but not 3?

What is the make and model of the pump?

 

Bod

(Whose been looking at Bosch diagrams.)

[MtB]

Was the "squirt" pressure noticably different on 1-2 compared to 3?

Does seem to point to a problem in the pump, in the pump are there any areas common to 1-2 but not 3?

What is the make and model of the pump?

 

Bod

(Whose been looking at Bosch diagrams.)

 

 

From the distance the fuel would spray (when Dave wasn't looking) I'd say the pressure was much the same on all three cylinders. It's the volume sprayed that was noticeably higher on No3 than 2 and 1.

 

In fact the volume sprayed from No3 was so great in comparison to Tony's suggestion that only the volume of a pin heat gets injected is making me wonder if the problem is not poor delivery to cyl1 & cyl2, but gross overfueling of cyl3.

 

I'd say the injector pipe on cyl3 was squirting a volume closer to one raindrop rather than one pin head.

(or is the point that the injector pump deliver plenty of fuel and the injectors sip whatever they need? I don't think so. I think the volume delivered by the pump should ALL get sent through the injectors. But if so, what's the return rail for? This is exposing a shortcoming in my understanding of how a diesel works...)

[nicknorman]

What was the exhaust colour? If one cylinder was over fuelling you would expect black smoke.

 

Anyway not knowing much about the intricacies of injector pumps but nevertheless agreeing that the problem is likely to be related to the filter change (Occam's razor etc) I don't think anyone has mentioned the possibility of a duff new filter sending debris (paper etc) into the pump?

Just done the annual maintenance on my new (second hand) glider, it's tiny 2-stroke sustainer engine's fuel system requires an annual filter change and it's a small inline filter such as you might find on a small old-fashioned car or bike. In big writing it says you mustn't use a paper element filter (I got a sintered one) and I'm guessing it's because of the possibility of the paper breaking down a bit and sending debris downstream.

[dmr]

 

 

From the distance the fuel would spray (when Dave wasn't looking) I'd say the pressure was much the same on all three cylinders. It's the volume sprayed that was noticeably higher on No3 than 2 and 1.

 

In fact the volume sprayed from No3 was so great in comparison to Tony's suggestion that only the volume of a pin heat gets injected is making me wonder if the problem is not poor delivery to cyl1 & cyl2, but gross overfueling of cyl3.

 

I'd say the injector pipe on cyl3 was squirting a volume closer to one raindrop rather than one pin head.

(or is the point that the injector pump deliver plenty of fuel and the injectors sip whatever they need? I don't think so. I think the volume delivered by the pump should ALL get sent through the injectors. But if so, what's the return rail for? This is exposing a shortcoming in my understanding of how a diesel works...)

 

I make it about 10 cubic milllimetres on each injection, so a little ball of fuel about 3mm diameter.

 

...................Dave

[dmr]

Its the injection pump!

 

Worrying stuff here, it is rammed FULL of brown slimy stuff, just like I found on top of the injectors, and just like what plugged the return line last summer. No sign of water. Does not look like diesel bug.

I need to do a lot of investigation but I strongly suspect this has been building up for a long time and that it goes straight through the filters then somehow builds up in the pump, maybe after stopping the engine when its hot????

 

Need to do a very careful inspection of supply lines.

I did possibly spot a bit of this during a filter change a year or two back, maybe that lump came out of the return line and back into the supply? Engine has done about 8000 hours over 8 years.

We have a bigger tank than most but also do a lot more hours than most so I don't think our fuel sits in the tank for longer than most other boats.

 

I guess that the connection to my filter change is mostly just a very unfortunate co-incidence.

 

......................Dave

[RLWP]

Have a dip to the bottom of your fuel tank

 

 

Richard