Floods

[Thorfast]

Reading and watching the news today as left me with a question re inland waterways.I wonder how less the problems would have been if proper lock keepers and lengthsmen had been in situ? These guys had the "local" knowledge of how to try and control rising levels and maybe they would have made a difference?What good are Vollockies and towpath tidiers when this happens? and worse how many "let off" paddles now are out of use? I know here on the BCN some haven't worked for a long time.

Doubt if even Noah would have been able to cope in some areas.

Sorry but dont understand how you can blame v.lockies this time!

[Dav and Pen]

What a disaster hope all are safe. I wonder if it is time to give up on the EA and go back to more local river and drainage boards who managed for years to look after their patches. At the very least the management structure would be local and would be answerable to the locals not based in London as part of an even bigger organisation.

After major flooding of Northampton in the 30's the Nene river board carried out the works which we know today and kept the town safe for over 50 years. Now the flood plain is a massive concrete apron of monster warehouses and even now new housing estates are being built on places where when I was a youngster we used to skate on the frozen fields. Northampton is not alone in having building in flood plains.

Let us hope some really serious work comes out of this tragedy and not just some hot air from the Westminster short term mob.

[Arthur Marshall]

Reading and watching the news today as left me with a question re inland waterways.

I wonder how less the problems would have been if proper lock keepers and lengthsmen had been in situ? (snip) and worse how many "let off" paddles now are out of use? I know here on the BCN some haven't worked for a long time.

Probably most of the paddles - they were certainly mostly unusable a few years back when the T&M breached & the guys who walk the towpath don't have time to check them. There's no-one to fix them anyway. But it's all part of the general financial cuts - if it aint London, name me a politician who cares.

[Locksprite]

Probably most of the paddles - they were certainly mostly unusable a few years back when the T&M breached & the guys who walk the towpath don't have time to check them. There's no-one to fix them anyway. But it's all part of the general financial cuts - if it aint London, name me a politician who cares.

If it was London there'd be a national day of mourning and the nation would spend the next ten year's NHS budget on a protective dome for the city. Then they'd re-route the Thames.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

You've really got to feel for these people who have had their homes trashed by the flooding, just when they thought things couldn't get any worse I now read that Cameron is going to visit them, I just hope they can hold out if Osborne insists on coming with his hard hat and reflective!!

[alias]

You've really got to feel for these people who have had their homes trashed by the flooding, just when they thought things couldn't get any worse I now read that Cameron is going to visit them, I just hope they can hold out if Osborne insists on coming with his hard hat and reflective!!

 

Perhaps carry one of these, if you feel that way?

[Victor Vectis]

[Guest]

 

Perhaps carry one of these, if you feel that way?

Love it ^^^

 

My sympathy goes out to anybody who has been affected by these floods in any way. We escaped in our house by the height of two bricks, as the River Douglas rerouted itself through our back yard. Not nice, but some of the other folk have been flooded out. We are of course helping where possible. From what I saw I believe that the Leeds Liverpool canal took a lot of water away from the area, and may have saved our village from completely flooding.

 

As we were moving our belongings upstairs the river was approaching the back door, and I thought to myself "at least we can move onto the boat." Then the truth sunk in; was the boat still there? Thankfully it is fine, largely due to the liveaboards at our little marina, who must have slackened all of the ropes off during the day, as the level had been up a good foot more than normal, I need to distribute some reward beer in the near future.

More bad weather tomorrow it seems, so stay safe everybody.

[Paul G2]

we all know the climate is changing, but it is far from proven that this period of change is the result of carbon emissions. The climate has been changing as long as the Earth has orbited the Sun.

 

I support sustainable energy but I don't believe it will make much difference to world climate trends. A mountain blowing its top like Mt. St Helens does more damage than decades of man-made emissions.

 

The thing about science is that it relies on facts, not beliefs.

 

Edit: The rest of this comment was deleted because, after I read the whole thread, I see it has all been said before.

 

Here is an interesting article about EU regulations contributing to the flooding there. (This article is on what looks like a climate-change-denier website, so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt.)

Edited December 28, 2015 by Paul G2

[Rambling]

Wanderer Vagabond just made me laugh heartily! Yes imagine dealing with losing everything then you get a visit from..... Beelzebub.., I mean

 

CAMERON

[Shropie Lad]

Hope things don't get any worse Up there !
I think it's time for us all to stand back for a few moments & really take all this in. !! ;;;--- ( Drain off's need to be double checked') And yes & they can take the extra runoff & 'and not make a bigger problem for someone else' ( I would of not wanted to be on mooring pins etc. )
Could we make a list of what is scary about this nightmare scenario :-- maybe the powers that be might see something positive come out of this.

[Peter X]

I guess that in some places the canals can be helpful in reducing the impact of flooding, for example opening the right paddles at the right time here on the Rochdale might have allowed more water to escape safely down the Calder valley, but it would require people at the locks to do it, and good communication between them and a central control room, staffed by some wise people. It must be important to look at the whole picture all the way down too, because if water bypasses towns up here too quickly it may worsen flooding somewhere downstream.

 

Ultimately I suspect there was just so much rain in the Pennines over 25-26 Dec that no flood defences could have protected everybody. I estimated that we had 8" in just under 24 hours at Stubbing Wharf.

 

I do feel a little sorry for politicians when there's any sort of disaster. George Bush was criticised for not going to New Orleans, Cameron gets criticised for turning up. They can't win.

[peterboat]

 

 

No, it only overrules those who know less about the subject.

 

And of course you are never opinionated about anything and never think you know better than others Tim...

 

If you have any understanding of climate change then challenge me with opinion based on scientific data or evidence, not silly personal comments, because if you do that then I know that your understanding of the subject must be very weak indeed. I have an MSc in Environmental Technology from Imperial College London which included climate studies, so I do have some understanding on which to base my opinion. In fact, it's not even my opinion - it's the opinion of about 98% of climate scientists.

 

 

 

Which comment was that?

 

Edit: Perhaps you're referring to my comment on the other thread in which I said:

 

"A flooded canal towpath really isn't that much of an issue if you're on a boat unless it rises 2ft over [the towpath]. Anyway, those securely moored on boats are the lucky ones in a flood, it's the people in flooded houses who suffer the most."

 

 

 

I stand by that comment. The pictures on this thread and on facebook showing overturned boats have either been on waters that have risen more than 2ft above the towpath or the boats weren't moored securely - so they couldn't rise or they came down on something as the waters receded. Those aren't secure moorings in a flood. I don't speak from a position of stupidity or ignorance. I've been living full time on rivers for the past 5 years and spent 3 winters moored on flood waters. I said that people in houses suffer the most in floods and that's because their homes are flooded. The vast majority of the boats which are badly affected by floods like the ones in those pictures aren't occupied, and most liveaboard boaters are on more secure moorings and can prevent that sort of thing happening because they are onboard.

in the 2007 floods we were well above the towpaths and at the height of the flood air sea rescue wanted to lift us off our boats. we stayed aboard and at four in the morning we were levering the boats back into the canal as the waters dropped. it was dangerous as the water was flowing very fast and as we found out afterwards the banks had been washed away in places. in the end we had a few sunken boats and some that were washed away but we survived, my friends house however was on the news and you could not see it as the water was that deep, it was 2 years before she got moved back in, generally boats float and houses sink

[Machpoint005]

>> I do feel a little sorry for politicians when there's any sort of disaster. George Bush was criticised for not going to New Orleans, Cameron gets criticised for turning up. They can't win.

 

I don't feel at all sorry when their all-in-it-together austerity ends up costing far more than it would have cost to do the job properly in the first place.

 

I'm not saying all would have been well for everyone, but does anyone seriously doubt that spending the £58m on the defences in Leeds (which was cut) would have cost more than the additional damage from not doing them?

 

As for blaming local authorities for building in the wrong places, that's no better than vicious and wilful blame-shifting away from the real cause - a woeful lack of investment in infrastructure. Camoron and Osborne should start investing for us all instead of flapping their gobs and letting lies out.

[Loafer]

For goodness' sake, you lot. What do you expect Mr Cameron to do? Show concern and visit the place? Don't visit the place? Promise to have a word with God so that it doesn't get any worse?

 

Go and try to be Prime Minister sometime. There's probably a PS4 game about it!

[TheBiscuits]

 

Go and try to be Prime Minister sometime. There's probably a PS4 game about it!

Goat simulator I think ...

[Loafer]

Goat simulator I think ...

[mayalld]

I guess that in some places the canals can be helpful in reducing the impact of flooding, for example opening the right paddles at the right time here on the Rochdale might have allowed more water to escape safely down the Calder valley, but it would require people at the locks to do it, and good communication between them and a central control room, staffed by some wise people. It must be important to look at the whole picture all the way down too, because if water bypasses towns up here too quickly it may worsen flooding somewhere downstream.

 

Ultimately I suspect there was just so much rain in the Pennines over 25-26 Dec that no flood defences could have protected everybody. I estimated that we had 8" in just under 24 hours at Stubbing Wharf.

 

I do feel a little sorry for politicians when there's any sort of disaster. George Bush was criticised for not going to New Orleans, Cameron gets criticised for turning up. They can't win.

Nail hit on head!

 

The trouble with lengthsmen opening run off paddles is that their view of the problem is constrained.

 

They may look to manage THEIR levels, by consigning excess water downstream to become somebody else's problem.

 

What is needed is central control, and preparatory actions before the levels rise.

 

If you know that there will be heavy rain in 48 hours, that is the time to open some sluices. Lower the levels a bit, provide a bit of space in the reservoirs.

[peterboat]

 

I don't feel at all sorry when their all-in-it-together austerity ends up costing far more than it would have cost to do the job properly in the first place.

 

I'm not saying all would have been well for everyone, but does anyone seriously doubt that spending the £58m on the defences in Leeds (which was cut) would have cost more than the additional damage from not doing them?

 

As for blaming local authorities for building in the wrong places, that's no better than vicious and wilful blame-shifting away from the real cause - a woeful lack of investment in infrastructure. Camoron and Osborne should start investing for us all instead of flapping their gobs and letting lies out.

to be truthful ian some of the places recently flooded have not been flooded in living memory. at some point we have to stop building in silly places i used to play in an area that flooded every year now there is a huge housing estate on it guess what it flooded to over 20 foot in 2007, why build in these stupid places which in the future just causes misery

[Guest]

to be truthful ian some of the places recently flooded have not been flooded in living memory. at some point we have to stop building in silly places i used to play in an area that flooded every year now there is a huge housing estate on it guess what it flooded to over 20 foot in 2007, why build in these stupid places which in the future just causes misery

I do agree to some extent about building on flood plains (I live on one) and most of West Lancs is on flood plains one way or the other. Next year two major pumping stations that keep these flood plains dry are being switched off to save money! What could possibly go wrong?

Thing is people have to live somewhere, and quality building land is expensive; what are they to do?

I think that house design needs to be re-thought, with the "ground" floor being built slightly higher perhaps? My daughter's flat in Germany is thus, you go up a few steps to the "ground" floor. Should it flood (they are near the Rhine) the cellar would flood, but highly unlikely the ground floor flat would. Perhaps the way forward is first floor accommodation, with garage/utility etc underneath at ground floor?

Edited December 28, 2015 by Guest

[peterboat]

I do agree to some extent about building on flood plains (I live on one) and most of West Lancs is on flood plains one way or the other. Next year two major pumping stations that keep these flood plains dry are being switched off to save money! What could possibly go wrong?

Thing is people have to live somewhere, and quality building land is expensive; what are they to do?

I think that house design needs to be re-thought, with the "ground" floor being built slightly higher perhaps? My daughter's flat in Germany is thus, you go up a few steps to the "ground" floor. Should it flood (they are near the Rhine) the cellar would flood, but highly unlikely the ground floor flat would. Perhaps the way forward is first floor accommodation, with garage/utility etc underneath at ground floor?

you are right i suspect the pumping stations will be remaining switched on after this last few weeks it would be political suicide to turn them off or i would hope it would. building regs need to be changed and planning consent should not be allowed on flood plains unless the houses were on stilts if we do need those houses

[Guest]

We tried in vain to book York Caravan Club site at Rowntree Park York for the new year hols. The site is extremely popular and we couldn't get on.

 

The site was abandoned a few days ago.

 

http://www.flooding2015.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/site-now-at-510-metres.html

[Henhouse]

These are a couple of pictures of Mytholmroyd from 1946, when my parents still lived there. You can see the church in the background of the top one...........much the same view as some of the pictures from the last few days.

 

Flooding in the Calder Valley has been a problem since Noah was in short trousers. There is no easy way of alleviating the issue in one place, without just moving it to somewhere further downstream.

 

[Richard T]

Those of us who live and boat in areas that have not been affected by the floods should accept with good grace that CRT and others are going to have to divert resources to repairing damage. This may mean that some minor repairs are not attended to as promptly as we would wish but so be it. We can all do our bit by taking the time to do the odd small job for CRT like cutting back some overhanging vegetation.

We moor on a river so know what floods are like but they are not normally as bad as those which have hit the northern canals and rivers.

[Guest]

These are a couple of pictures of Mytholmroyd from 1946, when my parents still lived there. You can see the church in the background of the top one...........much the same view as some of the pictures from the last few days.

 

Flooding in the Calder Valley has been a problem since Noah was in short trousers. There is no easy way of alleviating the issue in one place, without just moving it to somewhere further downstream.

 

 

That is all the human race do, we move problems.