CART Threatening Letter.

[Guest]

 

A long story. A BW manager sent a minion to enter a private boat yard and affix a threatening letter to our boat stating that we were on BW water and our boat would be towed away if we did not pay up. We thought the matter would rest there as the legal implications were fully explained to BW. Unfortunately the matter still continues.

 

So the letter you have received is part of this dispute with CRT or something new/different?

[Chewbacka]

The boat has not changed its mooring for 10 years.

Actually I would say that your mooring status changes every 6 months.

All they want is for you to either tell them you don't need a licence because the boat is now in xxxx or that it is still on the canal and therefore you will apply for a licence. They are also helpfully telling you how much it will cost if you do need a licence now and why otherwise you may delay and not send enough money.

 

I have some sympathy for C&RT as it is difficult to write a clear and unambigious letter without sounding a bit hard.

[Sea Dog]

Some folk would get bent out of shape if CRT sent them a Christmas card with a free licence in it.

[Laurie Booth]

 

The same as we did when the local electricity authority threatened to forcibly enter our property, (with police back-up) to install a 'smart meter', fight the case and win!

Why did they want to install a smart meter?

[Graham Davis]

 

I did speak to Cart first but I was not convinced that this matter could be sorted as there appeared to be no 'Manager' available who could explain any policy. I still await a requested letter to finally clarify this issue sorted permanently.

 

My original post was to enquire if this had happened to anyone else, a simple yes/no would seem more appropriate than vitriolic comments.

 

Your title of this thread was vitriolic, so what do you expect?

And this is a DISCUSSION forum, people DISCUSS things!!

 

Did you abide by the T & C's of your Licence when you took your boat off CaRT waters and notify them of that? Doesn't look like it.

[Paul C]

 

The same as we did when the local electricity authority threatened to forcibly enter our property, (with police back-up) to install a 'smart meter', fight the case and win!

 

Smart meter rollout is opt-out. Also its at the trial & test installation phase, actual rollout starts 2016.

[Sea Dog]

 

The same as we did when the local electricity authority threatened to forcibly enter our property, (with police back-up) to install a 'smart meter', fight the case and win!

Crikey, EOn were heavily penalised recently for not fitting Smart Meters quickly enough! You must really thrive on falling out with 'authority'!

[gazza]

I've said it before, A C&RT sub forum would be a great idea, it would stop the general boating stuff that isn't moaning about C&RT being bumped off the page

[OptedOut]

 

So the letter you have received is part of this dispute with CRT or something new/different?

It's just a longish continuation of the first BW threat to tow, seems to rear its ugly head every time there is a change of area manager and now resurfaces with the transfer of management to CaRT

[matty40s]

Some folk would get bent out of shape if CRT sent them a Christmas card with a free licence in it.

I would if they folded it putting it through the letterbox!!

Pah!!

[OptedOut]

Crikey, EOn were heavily penalised recently for not fitting Smart Meters quickly enough! You must really thrive on falling out with 'authority'!

Nope, only on the repressive use of authority where it is not necessary.

[gazza]

Nope, only on the repressive use of authority where it is not necessary.

Do you know, I have been paying utility bills for 15 years and never ever had the repressive use of authority forced upon me.

I wonder why that could be?

Edited November 27, 2015 by gazza

[OptedOut]

 

Smart meter rollout is opt-out. Also its at the trial & test installation phase, actual rollout starts 2016.

 

That was their mistake, they quoted an Act of parliament as their authority to enter whilst they were fully aware that they had misled me regarding the 'opt out' clause and implementation dates.

Do you know, I have been paying utility bills for 15 years and never ever had the repressive use of authority forced upon me.

I wonder why that could be?

Because I challenged their statement that they had a right to fit a 'smart meter' by legal force if necessary, seemed reasonable to challenge that assertion.

Edited November 27, 2015 by OptedOut

[jenlyn]

 

That was their mistake, they quoted an Act of parliament as their authority to enter whilst they were fully aware that they had misled me regarding the 'opt out' clause and implementation dates.

An all to common occurrence these days, and seemingly a growing one.

Nice one. Good on ya. People need to stand up to this particular form of bullying.

[OptedOut]

Why did they want to install a smart meter?

Part of a Government tick box initative.

[OptedOut]

A read of the link below may give you a starting point for some research, and could well be of interest to the boatyard owner.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/news-flash/8553-thames-marinas-exempt-from-licensing

Thanks for the link, another case of common sense winning over corporate abuse.

[David Schweizer]

Opted Out, Have you ever written to CaRT with details of your changing mooring pattern, or simply relied upon phone messages which may, or may not get recorded?

 

I may yet eat my words, but a couple of months ago I wrote to CaRT informing them that I had moved our boat to a new location on brokerage, and that it was now on "trade plates" They replied within a week and refunded me three months remaing licence fee (less a small admin charge).

 

It seems to me that if you do things properly in the first place and inform CaRT officially, you are less likely to be pursued for "apparently" breaching the rules.

Edited November 27, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Richard10002]

Certainly a cock up but I can't see the threat.

 

Not even a cock up really.... Just needs to let them know where they are, and that they will be in touch when they are ready for the next 6 month licence. Perhaps should have contacted CRT at the 1st reminder a few weeks ago.

 

Definitely not threatening, nor harrassment

[OptedOut]

Opted Out, Have you ever written to CaRT with details of your changing mooring pattern, or simply relied upon phone messages which may, or may not get recorded?

 

I may yet eat my words, but a couple of months ago I wrote to CaRT informing them that I had moved our boat to a new location on brokerage, and that it was now on "trade plates" They replied within a week and refunded me three months remaing licence fee (less a small admin charge).

 

It seems to me that if you do things properly in the first place and inform CaRT officially, you are less likely to be pursued for "apparently" breaching the rules.

 

I have only ever 'phoned CaRT to complain about their recent letter and I now await their written reply, hopefully the matter will then be finally resolved to our mutual satisfaction.

 

I will not 'phone CaRT again until I require our next licence in May or I have a safety problem I wish to report.

 

I will comply with all licence conditions until the end of the licence, I also believe that there is no requirement to inform CaRT where the boat is when not licenced as I am then not bound by their terms and conditions once I'm off their water?

Edited November 27, 2015 by OptedOut

[Arthur Marshall]

In answer to the original point, I would presume that anyone who took their boat off CRT waters when their licence period lapsed without telling them would get one of these letters. And what's more, if someone whose licence was about to lapse but who wasn't taking it off CRt waters didn't get a reminder or two, they'd complain like hell, quite justifiably. CRT is actually helpfully reminding you that you won't be penalised if you pay on time but that you could have saved some dosh by paying early - the fact that this doesn't actually apply to you is irrelevant as you haven't told them this.

 

By the way, this doesn't make me a CRT apologist, just, i think, a rational being. I tend to judge on a case by case basis.

 

I will comply with all licence conditions until the end of the licence, I also believe that there is no requirement to inform CaRT where the boat is when not licenced as I am then not bound by their terms and conditions?

Occasionally, it's best to help yourself a bit by giving them information they may find useful, even if it isn't legally essential. If you can't be arsed to tell them you're taking it off their waters, you can't grumble when they assume it's still there. Bit like what they used to call barrack room lawyers.

[Jerra]

 

I also believe that there is no requirement to inform CaRT where the boat is when not licenced as I am then not bound by their terms and conditions?

Very probably there is no legal necessity to notify CRT when you are not on their waters. However what reason apart from being bloody minded and trying to give CRT yet another problem is there for not doing so?

 

If you notify them you don't suffer what you consider to be harassment and CRT don't think they have another licence avoider and waste resources looking for you. To me a win win situation.

[nicknorman]

...I also believe that there is no requirement to inform CaRT where the boat is when not licenced as I am then not bound by their terms and conditions?

This is quite true, however if you wish to avoid receiving irritating reminder letters you will have to tell them your boat is no longer on CRT waters. If you want to play the "I KNOW MY RIGHTS" card that is your prerogative, but for nearly everyone else, CRT's licence renewal reminders are a welcome thing and realistically they are not going to stop issuing them just because of a strop by you. It's entirely up to you but I suggest that you tell them next autumn and then you won't have to put up with another "bullying and harassing" gentle reminder that your licence has expired.

 

Take a breath, observe the balance of impartial opinion on here, and act accordingly.

[OptedOut]

Bit like what they used to call barrack room lawyers.

If I were a barrack room lawyer I'm sure I would look into the justification for the late renewal charge of £150 and how it is calculated.

[Guest]

 

Take a breath, observe the balance of impartial opinion on here, and act accordingly.

 

Yeh but anybody that didn't immediately leap to condemn CRT for this atrocious and outrageously bad treatment of a boater is an apologist (apparently), and therefore cannot in anyway be judged impartial.

[haggis]

 

I have only ever 'phoned CaRT to complain about their recent letter and I now await their written reply, hopefully the matter will then be finally resolved to our mutual satisfaction.

 

 

So, it is OK for you to phone C&RT but they must write to you :-) . It looks to me as if your failure to tell them you were taking your boat off C&RT waters is resulting in them issuing you with two letters reminding you about your licence and now you are expecting a written reply to your phone call. All this costs them money which comes out of the licence fees (usually for 12 months) which the rest of us pay. Please give in gracefully and let C&RT spend its money on the upkeep of the canals.

 

haggis