Rochdale - a Reply

[Mac of Cygnet]

Further to my contacting Rochdale Council about the state of the canal through Rochdale, as described in the Rochdale Summit thread, I received the following reply. I've started a new topic, as this isn't about Rochdale Summit, but the town itself.

 

 

Dear Mr McManmon

Thank you for your email dated 27th September. Im sorry that you were disappointed by the Rochdale section of your journey along the Rochdale Canal. However, I note from the comments on your forum and the quotes you provided that others enjoyed their journeys - in particular through the boroughs beautiful open countryside. At least one of the contributors to the discussion forum recognises the availability of good mooring places close to good facilities.

You say that Rochdale has turned its back on a potential asset and I think this is a little unfair. Rochdale was instrumental with its partners Calderdale, Oldham and Manchester Councils, British Waterways and the Rochdale Canal Trust in delivering the project that enabled the canal to be restored to a navigable standard throughout its full length. Now that it is open, Rochdale Council continues to provide substantial funding to the Canal and Waterways Trust to help it to ensure that it remains navigable as do the other three Councils.

You say that Rochdale is worst environment you have passed through on your canal journeys yet others have a more positive impression of the journey and I think the balanced views offered by other contributors are closer to the reality. I hope that if you decide to cruise through the borough in the future you have a more pleasant experience.

 

John Percival

Capital Programmes Manager

Economy Service

 

 

 

01706 924843

07800 672083

 

It doesn't offer much hope of any improvement, does it? I've replied to this:

 

Dear Mr Percival

 

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply to my e-mail. I am quite aware of the part that Rochdale played in re-opening the Rochdale canal and that you are still committed to providing funding to keep the canal navigable, and this is good. However, when we look at the passage of the canal through the town itself, it is the overwhelming opinion of boaters I have met, and those commenting on the Canalworld forum, that the immediate environment is not good.

 

I have indeed enjoyed parts of my journey through the Borough of Rochdale, and there are good moorings and facilities at Littleborough, for example, but that is not Rochdale town. I think you are being a little selective in your reading of the forum topic, and that all of the positive comments relate to the canal before and after Rochdale, and the negative ones to the canals passage through the town itself. Except of course, the group of friendly drinkers who permanently occupy the area of Lock 50. Indeed, most of the people I met were very friendly and pleasant; surely they, as well as boaters, deserve a better environment while walking beside the canal?

 

Yours

 

Mac McManmon

[nicknorman]

It's what is known as "being in denial"!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course de Nile is a much nicer waterway - except where it passes through Cairo of course.

Edited October 7, 2015 by nicknorman

[DeanS]

I'll offer a comment, in case anyone missed it.

 

Before Rochdale city centre...lovely.

After Rochdale city centre....lovely.

Through the 2 locks IN the Rochdale centre...the worst bit of canal I have ever seen in my life.

 

 

They should be ashamed. It's not even a big area to sort out....people should be mooring up in Rochdale for 14 days to enjoy the cities revival ( if there ever is one)....but at the moment, it's the bit you shoot through as quick as you can. I guess they're happy with it like it is.....so sad.

 

 

I think someone needs to take some photos.....for Mr Percival to have a look at.

Edited October 7, 2015 by DeanS

[8 Hairy Feet]

Hmm no civic pride there then...

I guess if Mr. Percival would acknowledge

that there is a problem, he would then have

to suggest a solution.

It's all a bit sad really.

[mark99]

I'd interested - how bad is it?

 

Never been there.

 

Any photo's?

[KenK]

I'll offer a comment, in case anyone missed it.

 

Before Rochdale city centre...lovely.

After Rochdale city centre....lovely.

Through the 2 locks IN the Rochdale centre...the worst bit of canal I have ever seen in my life.

 

 

They should be ashamed. It's not even a big area to sort out....people should be mooring up in Rochdale for 14 days to enjoy the cities revival ( if there ever is one)....but at the moment, it's the bit you shoot through as quick as you can. I guess they're happy with it like it is.....so sad.

 

 

I think someone needs to take some photos.....for Mr Percival to have a look at.

If it is worse than the Rochdale nine coming out of Manchester then it must be bad because I can say for certain that is the worst I have seen or smelt.

 

Ken

[Nightwatch]

Any problem from the Rochdale Cowboy?

[Paul C]

Is it worse than the Walsall canal?

 

Or to put it another way, what are the other canals you're comparing it to and what's all their relative ranks of niceness etc?

[Mac of Cygnet]

If it is worse than the Rochdale nine coming out of Manchester then it must be bad because I can say for certain that is the worst I have seen or smelt.

 

Ken

I found the Rochdale nine 'interesting' rather than unpleasant. The (as Dean says) relatively short stretch - about half a mile - below Lock 50 in Rochdale is just piled junk and detritus on the banks and water which has been described as sump oil. I certainly wouldn't like to get stuck there. Obviously I was too concerned that I would get stuck to take any photos (I've just looked) but if no-one else has any I'll nip across there next time I'm back at the boat and take some.

[DeanS]

I found the Rochdale nine 'interesting' rather than unpleasant. The (as Dean says) relatively short stretch - about half a mile - below Lock 50 in Rochdale is just piled junk and detritus on the banks and water which has been described as sump oil. I certainly wouldn't like to get stuck there. Obviously I was too concerned that I would get stuck to take any photos (I've just looked) but if no-one else has any I'll nip across there next time I'm back at the boat and take some.

 

Great....don't forget to pass them along so Mr Percival can have a look too ;-)

[john6767]

Is it worse than the Walsall canal?

 

Or to put it another way, what are the other canals you're comparing it to and what's all their relative ranks of niceness etc?

I would be interested it that comparison too, although based on this years experience I would say that parts of the W&E now eclipse the Walsall for the prize of the rubbish dump on the BCN.

[David Mack]

Judge for yourselves. Photos from canalplan.eu:

Moss Upper Lock No 49:


Moss Lower Lock No 50:


Rochdale Junction:



Well i'th' Lane Bridge No 61:


Dicken Green Bridge No 62:

[BGA]

Only two people and no boats

[Midnight]

The photos don't really show how bad it is. There's lots of rubbish all the way from the top lock to almost Edinburgh way. There's nature netting along the offside bank that just collects all the pizza boxes, fast food trays and other rubbish. The basin just below the bridge is probably a health hazard. It's been like that in my experience since 2006 when we first went through and remained so at each of my subsequent three visits.

 

The locals don't seem to care either, In 2011 when we passed through there was a man in the newish housing on the towpath side below the bridge lopping the top metre or so off his perimeter conifer hedging. Each top was floating in the canal along with the one he threw in just after we passed by.

 

Mr Percival should revisit his response after a site visit. He obviously hasn't been down that way either that or is blind or suffering a severe case of denial. If Mac would like to publish or PM his email address I will gladly remind him where the canal is. I don't know what a Capital Programmes manager is, what they do or how much they get paid is but this one should consider earning his keep instead of taking on the role of spin doctor.

 

As I said in the other thread Rochdale (centre) is a disgrace and doesn't deserve a canal to be named after it.

[magictime]

Am I missing something? Surely it's ultimately the responsibility of the CRT, rather than Rochdale Council, to ensure that most of what Mac calls the "immediate environment" - the canal, its banks, the towpath, the areas around locks - is kept in good condition and clear of rubbish, grafitti etc.

 

Of course the Council should recognise that the canal is an asset to the town, and therefore help to ensure that it's looked after, but it makes sense to me that this should primarily take the form of funding the CRT (as they do) rather than dealing themselves with day-to-day cleaning and maintenance issues on CRT property.

 

If I were in Mr. Percival's shoes, I would be forwarding that correspondence to the CRT and asking what they plan to do to ensure that the grotty state of its canal and towpath does not continue to spoil the town for residents as well as people visiting by boat or otherwise. Or at least, I would be clear that I expected the CRT to take a leading role in any joint efforts to improve the situation.

[Midnight]

Am I missing something? Surely it's ultimately the responsibility of the CRT, rather than Rochdale Council, to ensure that most of what Mac calls the "immediate environment" - the canal, its banks, the towpath, the areas around locks - is kept in good condition and clear of rubbish, grafitti etc.

 

Of course the Council should recognise that the canal is an asset to the town, and therefore help to ensure that it's looked after, but it makes sense to me that this should primarily take the form of funding the CRT (as they do) rather than dealing themselves with day-to-day cleaning and maintenance issues on CRT property.

 

If I were in Mr. Percival's shoes, I would be forwarding that correspondence to the CRT and asking what they plan to do to ensure that the grotty state of its canal and towpath does not continue to spoil the town for residents as well as people visiting by boat or otherwise. Or at least, I would be clear that I expected the CRT to take a leading role in any joint efforts to improve the situation.

 

Going back to my days working for a local authority I asked the cleansing manager the hypothetical question (no canals in our borough) whose responsibility would it be in such a case. He said it depends on who takes responsibility for the rubbish. i.e is it the town council's rubbish blown into CRT's canal or CRT's rubbish once it is in the canal. He seemed to think that such things should be managed jointly. As Mr Percival seems to be in denial of any rubbish issues it's not likely to happen in Rochdale - well it hasn't happened for the past 10 years in my experience.

[Emerald Fox]

I'd interested - how bad is it?

 

Never been there.

 

Any photo's?

 

They are too busy raising the Pakistani flag above Rochdale town hall to be bothered with the canal.

“This is about the cultural heritage that is brought to our borough.”

 

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/86094/flag-raised-for-pakistan-day

[Mac of Cygnet]

The photos don't really show how bad it is. There's lots of rubbish all the way from the top lock to almost Edinburgh way. There's nature netting along the offside bank that just collects all the pizza boxes, fast food trays and other rubbish. The basin just below the bridge is probably a health hazard. It's been like that in my experience since 2006 when we first went through and remained so at each of my subsequent three visits.

 

The locals don't seem to care either, In 2011 when we passed through there was a man in the newish housing on the towpath side below the bridge lopping the top metre or so off his perimeter conifer hedging. Each top was floating in the canal along with the one he threw in just after we passed by.

 

Mr Percival should revisit his response after a site visit. He obviously hasn't been down that way either that or is blind or suffering a severe case of denial. If Mac would like to publish or PM his email address I will gladly remind him where the canal is. I don't know what a Capital Programmes manager is, what they do or how much they get paid is but this one should consider earning his keep instead of taking on the role of spin doctor.

 

As I said in the other thread Rochdale (centre) is a disgrace and doesn't deserve a canal to be named after it.

David Mack's photos (well not actually his) obviously show the best bits! Some not actually in Rochdale at all.

 

john.percival@rochdale.gov.uk

[DeanS]

 

They are too busy raising the Pakistani flag above Rochdale town hall to be bothered with the canal.

“This is about the cultural heritage that is brought to our borough.”

 

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/86094/flag-raised-for-pakistan-day

 

What has the Pakastani flag got to do with Mr Percival being blind to the state of the canal running through his backyard exactly?

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by DeanS

[magictime]

 

They are too busy raising the Pakistani flag above Rochdale town hall to be bothered with the canal.

“This is about the cultural heritage that is brought to our borough.”

 

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/86094/flag-raised-for-pakistan-day

 

I'm not sure that has anything to do with anything, but hey, why miss an opportunity to dredge up a year-old 'controversy' manufactured by the likes of Britain First, Katie Hopkins, and other assorted fascists, and hopefully stir up a nice bit of racial tension.

[Greygal]

People have asked for a comparison between the Rochdale and the Wallsall - my own view, having travelled both recently, there's absolutely no contest: the stretch in Rochdale town itself is by far the vilest, rankest, most squalid bit of canal I have ever travelled. But it was small pain for major gain because it is a cracking canal and don't let it put you off, it just has to be endured for a short time. I for one will be writing to Mr Percival and suggesting he gets down to Specsavers so he can change those rose tinted goggles he's wearing.

[David Mack]

David Mack's photos (well not actually his) obviously show the best bits! Some not actually in Rochdale at all.

How do you make that out? These photos are all of the central Rochdale section, and include the two locks which Dean referred to in post #3.

[gaggle]

Not one boater has said THEY picked any rubbish out of the canal , why not lift some litter from the water as you go through a lock where it has gathered in a nice easy collection into a bin bag .

[TheBiscuits]

Not one boater has said THEY picked any rubbish out of the canal , why not lift some litter from the water as you go through a lock where it has gathered in a nice easy collection into a bin bag .

It's easier just to complain about it.

 

We reckon that if everyone who complains picks up 2 pieces of litter every time they go out there soon won't be any litter.

[NickF]

Not one boater has said THEY picked any rubbish out of the canal , why not lift some litter from the water as you go through a lock where it has gathered in a nice easy collection into a bin bag .

To be honest when I went through I would have had grave concerns about coming into contact with what passes for water in that area or rubbish floating on it. It certainly looked pretty toxic to me, what germs, pollutants or possibly contaminated sharps were contained within I dread to think. I am afraid I was only too glad to have a thick steel hull between me and it!

People have asked for a comparison between the Rochdale and the Wallsall - my own view, having travelled both recently, there's absolutely no contest: the stretch in Rochdale town itself is by far the vilest, rankest, most squalid bit of canal I have ever travelled. But it was small pain for major gain because it is a cracking canal and don't let it put you off, it just has to be endured for a short time. I for one will be writing to Mr Percival and suggesting he gets down to Specsavers so he can change those rose tinted goggles he's wearing.

I agree wholeheartedly .. that really sums it up.