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Worcester & Birmingham, ufn btwn Gas st & Granville St

springy

By springy
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p6rob Proficient

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Posted
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Had a look yesterday hoping to see the bottom of the canal, however, the level had barely dropped.

 

I do wonder if I'm misunderstanding something though.

There's a big pump taking water from the dammed section and dumping it towards Gas Street Basin. The pump boat is in the stop lock at Gas Street and seems to be pumping water from one end of the boat to the other. I'd have thought, if they positioned the pump boat out of the way, the water would just flow into the upper section unimpeded. They could then use the pump boat to help empty the bit they're actually trying to drain.

I'm no engineer but can't see why they're using the pump boat in the way they appear to be. I didn't notice if the stop planks were in the lock, but surely, if there were, they could be moved out the way.

I spoke to Rory on the waterbus, once it's drained, he's hoping to find two doors he lost off Aerial some time ago.

 

Could someone put me right on the pumping method being used please.

 

Rob

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Dave_P Veteran

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Posted
Posted

 

Well... OK. They had better be good photos though

 

icecream.gif

 

Richard

They'll be excellent bearing in mind it will probably be dark and I only have a phone camera. Any requests? For example, a close up of a gushing hose? An artfully soft-focus pump? A CRT worker with a furrowed brow?

Had a look yesterday hoping to see the bottom of the canal, however, the level had barely dropped.

 

I do wonder if I'm misunderstanding something though.

There's a big pump taking water from the dammed section and dumping it towards Gas Street Basin. The pump boat is in the stop lock at Gas Street and seems to be pumping water from one end of the boat to the other. I'd have thought, if they positioned the pump boat out of the way, the water would just flow into the upper section unimpeded. They could then use the pump boat to help empty the bit they're actually trying to drain.

I'm no engineer but can't see why they're using the pump boat in the way they appear to be. I didn't notice if the stop planks were in the lock, but surely, if there were, they could be moved out the way.

I spoke to Rory on the waterbus, once it's drained, he's hoping to find two doors he lost off Aerial some time ago.

 

Could someone put me right on the pumping method being used please.

 

Rob

I'm a bit confused by that too. My best guess is that it's to protect the rest of the canal if the dam fails. At the other end, the gates are still shut but the water is being pumped into the area between the gates and the dam. Surely this risks flooding that section?

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Naughty Cal Veteran II

Naughty Cal

Posted
Posted

We were moored round the corner form the Registraars office taking on water when a photographer asked if he could use our boat as a back drop for the wedding photos. We were delighted to agree.

 

haggis

We did a friends wedding yesterday. Was a great day. We took the bride and groom and a few family members from the ceremony in Lincoln to their reception at the Pyewipe.

 

FB_IMG_1424595811129_1.jpg

 

Whilst we were waiting we had a few enquiries as to how much we charged for the service!

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Dave-Shrop Collaborator

Dave-Shrop

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The pumps they have are not large enough for the length of dam and the amount of water to be removed. These dams only work by the pressure on the vinyl membrane and that will not be there until a large amount of water is removed, until then the vinyl membrane is just floating with a lot of leakage. You need enough pumps at the start to overcome this leakage. So they need at least eight times the number of pumps or ask the Fire Brigade to bring in four of their large pumps, they would empty it in about four hours.

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Dave_P Veteran

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The pumps they have are not large enough for the length of dam and the amount of water to be removed. These dams only work by the pressure on the vinyl membrane and that will not be there until a large amount of water is removed, until then the vinyl membrane is just floating with a lot of leakage. You need enough pumps at the start to overcome this leakage. So they need at least eight times the number of pumps or ask the Fire Brigade to bring in four of their large pumps, they would empty it in about four hours.

One of the boaters at the basin suggested to CRT on Thursday that the fire brigade might be interested in helping out as a training exercise. I don't know if they've been asked though.

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Tony Dunkley Influencer

Tony Dunkley

Posted
Posted

Does anyone know if this 4 day long failed attempt to drain a short length of canal with stop gates at one end, a stop lock at the other and a leak in the bed between them is by C&RT staff, or contractors or a combination of the two ?

Following so soon after the sinker at Wednesfield that defeated them for so long, and the one that's still down on the K&A, it would seem that the "management" and control of water should be added to the extensive and growing list of things that are quite beyond the abilities of C&RT.

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Dave_P Veteran

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Does anyone know if this 4 day long failed attempt to drain a short length of canal with stop gates at one end, a stop lock at the other and a leak in the bed between them is by C&RT staff, or contractors or a combination of the two ?

Following so soon after the sinker at Wednesfield that defeated them for so long, and the one that's still down on the K&A, it would seem that the "management" and control of water should be added to the extensive and growing list of things that are quite beyond the abilities of C&RT.

I believe its a combination of the two. I do wonder if it usually causes these problems and we're just more aware of this one because its in such a visible location. CRT knew there was an imminent problem on tuesday night, so it's closer to 5 days now. Imagine the embarrassment to CRT if this 'imminent breach' actually happened? Obviously, embarrassment would be the least of the worries to the owners of the properties who would be flooded!

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Tony Dunkley Influencer

Tony Dunkley

Posted
Posted (edited)

I believe its a combination of the two. I do wonder if it usually causes these problems and we're just more aware of this one because its in such a visible location. CRT knew there was an imminent problem on tuesday night, so it's closer to 5 days now. Imagine the embarrassment to CRT if this 'imminent breach' actually happened? Obviously, embarrassment would be the least of the worries to the owners of the properties who would be flooded!

 

Quite honestly, I think a serious breach with the attendant damage and flooding would have been ( and could yet be) a beneficial outcome of this. The longer the delay before C&RT is exposed for what it is, the more extensive, and difficult to reverse, will be the damage and deterioration to our waterways, and a well publicised foul up in the middle of a city would undoubtedly go a long way towards demonstrating just how much of a disaster C&RT is.

Edited by Tony Dunkley
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Theo Veteran

TheoDonate to Canal World

Posted
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'Gas Street Basin fish rescue delayed by leaking canal dams'...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-31566631

 

'Fish rescued from leaking Birmingham canal'...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-31575430

The fish rescue clip shows that the pump out (forgive the expression) is working. I will go round and have a look at take a photo in a few minutes. I hope that you appreciate my dedication. The weather is vile!

 

N

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Theo Veteran

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Posted
Posted

Here you are, then:

 

SAM_4155_zpsleapbd84.jpg

 

SAM_4154_zpsbga5evji.jpg

 

SAM_4153_zpszxqfb4so.jpg

 

SAM_4152_zpshmxylsbo.jpg


I see that Dave got in before me with a very similar set.

 

Our 5 day estimate for draining was a bit wrong! Perhaps there was just enough flow to get the seal.

 

N

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Tony Dunkley Influencer

Tony Dunkley

Posted
Posted

The photos in the second link posted by Dorlan appear to show that the dams have been quite effective now, but still Mr Dunkley has to use this as another (feeble) attack against CaRT!!

 

It's taken 4 days to get to this stage in a short length of cut, using slow to deploy and costly temporary dams, when there are existing structures, for the express purpose of stopping off, at each end of the affected section.

Do you consider that to be the performance of a competent and 'fit for purpose' navigation authority ?

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Stilllearning Influencer

Stilllearning

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Posted

 

It's taken 4 days to get to this stage in a short length of cut, using slow to deploy and costly temporary dams, when there are existing structures, for the express purpose of stopping off, at each end of the affected section.

Do you consider that to be the performance of a competent and 'fit for purpose' navigation authority ?

I think that a total pump out of the section you mention would have involved moving a lot more boats, as well as potential problems to a pontoon? I may be mistaken of course.

Richard's point about safety fencing is also relevant IMHO.

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Tony Dunkley Influencer

Tony Dunkley

Posted
Posted

I think that a total pump out of the section you mention would have involved moving a lot more boats, as well as potential problems to a pontoon? I may be mistaken of course.

Richard's point about safety fencing is also relevant IMHO.

 

Moving a few boats, unbolting a pontoon and standing a few more lengths of safety fencing on the towpath hardly compares with the time taken and expense incurred in hiring and installing temporary dams when the means for stopping off the affected section is already there to be used, and deployable within a hour or two.

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Ray T Veteran II

Ray TDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

It's taken 4 days to get to this stage in a short length of cut, using slow to deploy and costly temporary dams, when there are existing structures, for the express purpose of stopping off, at each end of the affected section.

Do you consider that to be the performance of a competent and 'fit for purpose' navigation authority ?

 

Yes, especially when the best you could apparently come up with is this:

 

"Quite honestly, I think a serious breach with the attendant damage and flooding would have been ( and could yet be) a beneficial outcome of this."

Edited by Ray T
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Theo Veteran

TheoDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Did you meet Dave, Nick?

 

Richard

 

No. I really ought to look him up!

 

If you are reading this, Dave, we are on Theodora, moored at Cambrian Wharf. Call in for a cuppa, but not until next Saturday!

 

No more updates from me until then.

 

N

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