Worcester & Birmingham, ufn btwn Gas st & Granville St

[madcat]

From the replies I think it's very likely to be the reason why the dams were needed is that the level of leakage accross the whole bar and stop lock combined was more than the pumps could handle.

 

If the origional purpose of the structure is no longer required it's going to get left to its own devices until it ceases to do what's currently required of it. At the moment it's providing access to moored boats .

[Dave_P]

I'm waiting to see what's causing the leak .

I think maybe it was Tony, digging a hole down there. Sorry! Couldn't resist!

[PaulG]

I think maybe it was Tony, digging a hole down there. Sorry! Couldn't resist!

[Dave_P]

From the replies I think it's very likely to be the reason why the dams were needed is that the level of leakage accross the whole bar and stop lock combined was more than the pumps could handle.

 

If the origional purpose of the structure is no longer required it's going to get left to its own devices until it ceases to do what's currently required of it. At the moment it's providing access to moored boats .

There really is no mystery to the reasoning behind the dams being built. I've already listed them. The original pump was totally inadequate for the job at hand. The pumps they now have are more powerful. There's plenty of leakage around the dams but the pumps are easily dealing with it. If they'd wanted to empty the whole section to the bar, they could have.

[Ray T]

 

At one time, it was supposed to have been water retaining as it was the divider between the BCN and the W&B. Now, exactly how well it retained water back then is anyone's guess, and how it is today another matter altogether

 

Richard

 

From The Inland Waterways of England by Mr L.T.C. Rolt:

 

During the period of canal construction, this question of effecting junctions was a frequent source of dispute and litigation between the two companies concerned which usually ended whereby the newcomer was the loser.

Thus for many years the Birmingham Canal Company would not allow the Worcester & Birmingham Company to make a junction with their canal in Birmingham. A narrow "bar" of masonry which may still be seen, divided the two waterways and over this all goods consigned from one canal to the other had to be transhipped from boat to boat.

Eventually the matter was settled and a stop lock built, but to this day the junction is known as Worcester Bar or the Bar Lock."

 

Written in 1950.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Ray T

[Stilllearning]

 

From The Inland Waterways of England by Mr L.T.C. Rolt:

 

During the period of canal construction, this question of effecting junctions was a frequent source of dispute and litigation between the two companies concerned which usually ended whereby the newcomer was the looser.

Thus for many years the Birmingham Canal Company would not allow the Worcester & Birmingham Company to make a junction with their canal in Birmingham. A narrow "bar" of masonry which may still be seen, divided the two waterways and over this all goods consigned from one canal to the other had to be transhipped from boat to boat.

Eventually the matter was settled and a stop lock built, but to this day the junction is known as Worcester Bar or the Bar Lock."

 

Written in 1950.

I am not clear why the loser was looser...

On my way, wearing coat and hat.

[nicknorman]

From the replies I think it's very likely to be the reason why the dams were needed is that the level of leakage accross the whole bar and stop lock combined was more than the pumps could handle.

If the origional purpose of the structure is no longer required it's going to get left to its own devices until it ceases to do what's currently required of it. At the moment it's providing access to moored boats .

I don't think you are looking at it in quite the right way. It's not really a structure, more an absence of one. The BCN and the W&B were both dug out /constructed, whilst the bar was left undug. Obviously there is a degree of "structure" in the brick sides and pavement, but the core of it is probably untouched Mother Earth.

[Tony Dunkley]

There really is no mystery to the reasoning behind the dams being built. I've already listed them. The original pump was totally inadequate for the job at hand. The pumps they now have are more powerful. There's plenty of leakage around the dams but the pumps are easily dealing with it. If they'd wanted to empty the whole section to the bar, they could have.

 

So the 'original' pump was 'inadequate', because of that the dams were built, but they are leaking so badly that they need more and larger capacity pumps to do the job.

Makes a lot of sense, does that.

If, in fact, the Bar was leaking underneath during the initial pumping attempts, then it must be in imminent danger of collapse and either Broad Street tunnel should have been stanked off or the nearest of the two dams should have gone in on the Broad Street side of it.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Ray T]

I am not clear why the loser was looser...

On my way, wearing coat and hat.

 

Speeling korekted.

[Dave_P]

 

So the 'original' pump was 'inadequate', because of that the dams were built, but they are leaking so badly that they need more and larger capacity pumps to do the job.

Makes a lot of sense, does that.

Yes. Quite right. Always best to have the right tools for the job.

[PaulG]

Yes. Quite right. Always best to have the right tools for the job.

Just need to use TD's "Remote Task Diagnostic Service" to establish what the right tools are.

[madcat]

I'd not really considered the bar as undug but faced . Im not sure how it would handle being drained on one side .

 

I think I might have to try find out more about the whole thing but who do I ask. Why the hell didn't schools teach the basics of civil engineering instead of cookery . I could already cook but I realise how little I really know about the built environment .

[Dave_P]

I'd not really considered the bar as undug but faced . Im not sure how it would handle being drained on one side .

 

I think I might have to try find out more about the whole thing but who do I ask. Why the hell didn't schools teach the basics of civil engineering instead of cookery . I could already cook but I realise how little I really know about the built environment .

My school didn't teach either.

[Ray T]

From Wiki:

 

Birmingham terminus[edit]

For twenty years direct connection to the Birmingham Canal Navigations (BCN) was prevented by the Worcester Bar, a physical barrier at Gas Street Basin, Birmingham designed so that the BCN would not lose water to the Worcester and Birmingham. Cargoes had to be laboriously manhandled between boats on either side. In 1815 an Act allowed the creation of a stop lock and the bar was breached. The Worcester and Birmingham raised their water level by six inches to minimise water loss and today the two pairs of lock gates have been removed. There were separate toll offices either side of the bar for the two canal companies. The bar still exists, with boats moored to both sides of it.

The commercial terminus in Birmingham was Worcester Wharf, a large complex extending from the bar along Bridge Street, Gas Street and Granville Street. Part of it now forms a water front to The Mailbox shopping and residential complex.

 

Further detail here:

 

http://travel.wikinut.com/The-Worcester-Bar%3A-a-relic-of-an-old-dispute/3jwb0ror/

[madcat]

anybody any suggestions as to how to find out more about the details of construction of the Worcester bar and the basins ?

 

 

Thanks for the Wiki link Ray . That tells me the bar is 7 foot wide , not much is it .

Edited February 23, 2015 by madcat

[Ray T]

You're welcome.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Ray T

[Dave_P]

It may well be that the bar itself is porous and water can flow through it. Not sure the best way to find out for sure though.

 

What I do know is that leaks can travel, so they could have drained the wrong section.

[RLWP]

anybody any suggestions as to how to find out more about the details of construction of the Worcester bar and the basins ?

 

 

Thanks for the Wiki link Ray . That tells me the bar is 7 foot wide , not much is it .

 

I'd suggest the BCN society, or Birmingham central library. Both are possible places to look up plans

 

Richard

[Dave_P]

Update: the cut is nearly completely empty now. Fish rescue still not complete. Due to finish that tomorrow. Then inspection Wednesday onwards.

[madcat]

Thank Dave , I'm wondering if I can escape into town for a look see and in passing a trip to the market for some food goodies. I do wish I lived in Birmingham , I'm a city cat.

 

Richard , I will ask some of the BCN folks at our moorings . Ivor knows quite a lot about the past of the area. The Central Library would be a good place , I hadn't really thought of that.

Edited February 23, 2015 by madcat

[Dave_P]

Edited February 23, 2015 by Dave_P

[madcat]

I'd love to spend an hour or two fishing in that lot with a magnet and a rake . Bet there's some treasure to be found . Where's Time Team when you need them.

[Dave_P]

[Tony Dunkley]

Does anyone know if the volume of the leakage into the railway tunnel has reduced in proportion to the reduction in pressure head of the canal water above it ?

[RLWP]

A whole new guessing game

 

What's the beige electronic thing with five knobs on the front?

 

Richard