A good article in Canal Boat magazine

[nicknorman]

Before we got our boat - while waiting 18 months for build to start and complete - the mags (WW and CB) gave us our "canal fix" and I found the various "back cabin" type technical items very useful. 5 years of the forum and 4 years of the boat later I think I have got a grip on most of the technical stuff and sometimes find issues with the technical "back cabin" type stuff (TB items excepted of course). For "canal fix" we now go on our boat! So if it were me I would cancel the subscriptions but since Jeff is paying ...

[alan_fincher]

 

However when they do this like Canal Boat did a few months ago with reviewing multiple fridges, the article had very little information in it and was only a few paragraphs long (but had 2-3 pages!).

Yes, the comparative reviews are usually so scant as to be hopeless.

 

There was one about folding bikes recently, (I think it was in WW), which basically said "Brompton are marvellous, but other folding bikes are available".

 

Well, I'm taking liberties with that synopsis, but I'm not far off. No useful information at all I could see for anyone who actually wanted a folding bike for canal use, but didn't necessarily have over £700 to spend on one. (And Bromptons aren't great on tow-paths anyway!).

[Paul C]

 

 

WTF is a 'vitus'???

 

 

 

MtB

 

Isn't it a van produced by Mercedes?

[Tony Brooks]

I would like to point out that to provide comparative test such as Which did/do undertake that makes technical comparisons usually requires a suitable equipped testing lab and those do not come cheap. They also require a large input from users of the various makes etc. and I very much doubt a magazine has access to either. Also the patters of use probably vary widely when compared with items used on land.

 

On a personal note I feel very frustrated when the Editor asks me to do the occasional technical article because I simply can not trust the manufacturer's blurb to be true and have no effective access to independent test facilities. That forces me to use intuition and experience. I agree this is far from the what one would like. You also have to consider commercial implications. The number of pages devoted to any topic depends upon income for circulation and advertising. That is a fact of life so as advertising income falls so do the number of pages available for topics.

 

One has to be realistic. Could a magazine afford to upset an advertiser, especially one like Vetus who buy whole pages. I would love to warn potential customers about the cost of Vetus spares and gearbox issues or the shoddy work carried out by a particular yard (as examples) but even if I wrote it it is almost certain the editor would feel obliged to remove it. Those are the facts of life and even if we do not like it I fear we have to accept it.

 

I am not even convinced the magazines are aimed at the experienced boaters.

[Robbo]

I would like to point out that to provide comparative test such as Which did/do undertake that makes technical comparisons usually requires a suitable equipped testing lab and those do not come cheap. They also require a large input from users of the various makes etc. and I very much doubt a magazine has access to either. Also the patters of use probably vary widely when compared with items used on land.

 

You need a test lab to test fold up bikes?

[dor]

I am tempted to agree with your last point Tony. We have been having WW & CB for years, and really there is little content that is of any significant use to us these days.

I wrote some semi-technbcal articles for one of them a few years ago, e.g. swapping a Vetus gearbox for a PRM, fitting a Python drive etc, which people tell me they found useful, but there seems to be little of that type of content now. Having said that, there was one recently but was written by someone who clearly didn't understand the technical aspect of what they were writing about and so it was very misleading.

[Tony Brooks]

 

You need a test lab to test fold up bikes?

 

 

If you want more than a simple "how I found it to ride" then yes. Either that or access to the various manufacturers' testing data. In the case of bikes I would suggest most do not do proper life testing, they just buy in components and assume the component manufacturers have done the job. from personal experience i know this may not be the case with some Indian supplied having unacceptable wear rates.

 

Then there is the quetsion of how well the frames are put together and if the material is as stated or if not stated how you find out what it really is. That indicates some form of destructive testing.

 

I doubt if many suppliers would be happy for their products to be so tested unless they were purchased outright and we come back to low circulation specialist magazines.

[Robbo]

 

 

If you want more than a simple "how I found it to ride" then yes. Either that or access to the various manufacturers' testing data. In the case of bikes I would suggest most do not do proper life testing, they just buy in components and assume the component manufacturers have done the job. from personal experience i know this may not be the case with some Indian supplied having unacceptable wear rates.

 

Then there is the quetsion of how well the frames are put together and if the material is as stated or if not stated how you find out what it really is. That indicates some form of destructive testing.

 

I doubt if many suppliers would be happy for their products to be so tested unless they were purchased outright and we come back to low circulation specialist magazines.

 

I'm sure one of there other magazines would be related to bikes, same with electrical stuff, even if they don't have a test lab I'm sure hiring the relevant equipment and lab is possible. It's really a poor excuse and hense why only really people that are new to boating now purchase them.

[junior]

 

 

There are at least two members here with boats of that name. PaddyR being the other...

 

 

MtB

I'm sure there is one on an EOG mooring in the Buckby flight. Not sure if it is either of the forum members though!

[David Mack]

I am not even convinced the magazines are aimed at the experienced boaters.

 

I'm sure that most of the magazines I see on display in WH Smith are sold more to the vaguely interested general public than they are to committed enthusiasts of the particular subject matter of the magazine. Most such magazines offer competitively priced subscription deals for the regular readers. That way they get money for every issue, rather than one every two or three months that they would probably get from shop sales.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Yes, the comparative reviews are usually so scant as to be hopeless.

 

There was one about folding bikes recently, (I think it was in WW), which basically said "Brompton are marvellous, but other folding bikes are available".

 

Well, I'm taking liberties with that synopsis, but I'm not far off. No useful information at all I could see for anyone who actually wanted a folding bike for canal use, but didn't necessarily have over £700 to spend on one. (And Bromptons aren't great on tow-paths anyway!).

 

There have been folding bike articles in both WW and CB recently, I believe.

 

I wrote the WW one. It wasn't a "comparative review", more an overview of the market, and of the considerations involved in using a folding bike on the canals (based on ten years', and four bikes', experience).

 

The Brompton section finished with "At heart, Bromptons are bikes for riding on flat, smooth surfaces. If you’re looking for a bike for lock-wheeling and shopping trips, they’re a good choice, though a pricy one. If your ambitions are higher, or your budget lower, look elsewhere." Not really "Brompton are marvellous"! It then went on to talk about other makes - some well-known, some much less but worthy of consideration - and the advantages of each.

 

For what it's worth, I now lock-wheel with a second-hand Bike Friday, which cost me £350 and is pretty much bullet-proof - but, inevitably, doesn't fold anywhere near as small as a Brompton.

 

Vaguely related footnote: Motor Boats Monthly has recently closed, despite having a higher UK circulation than its stablemate Motor Boat & Yachting. WW has a similar circulation but, I suspect, lower overheads. I don't think CB publishes an ABC-audited circulation figure any more.

[Tony Brooks]

 

I'm sure one of there other magazines would be related to bikes, same with electrical stuff, even if they don't have a test lab I'm sure hiring the relevant equipment and lab is possible. It's really a poor excuse and hense why only really people that are new to boating now purchase them.

 

 

I have no direct knowledge of the financial side of things but I do not think it is fair to make this type of comment until you have some idea about how it will be paid for. I think that you will find hiring the equipment, people who know how to use it, or actual; labs far more expensive than any of the magazines can afford.

 

If you can not use test labs etc. then you fall back on the feed back from LARGE numbers of users and I do not think such magazines have enough of a user base who would regularly provide such feedback to make it meaningful.

 

So we are back to an individuals experience as the best that can be done but as I explained even then there are financial limitations.

[Guest]

Living as far away from the main system as we do the mags. were an easy way to satisfy our interest in the waterways and get a regular waterways fix. Not long after getting the boat we stopped subscribing as at that point they became superfluous to us. I suspect a lot do the same.

 

As for technical info. a better investment is in some of the excellent books that are around, rather than a CB or WW subscription.

 

As for the plethora of ads. CB and WW aren't really that much different from many if not all of the 'hobbyist' type magazines. I suspect they would be a lot more expensive without the ads.

[pippawatson]

WTF is a 'vitus'???

 

 

 

MtB

A French bike. See link:http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes

[Richard Fairhurst]

 

I'm sure one of there other magazines would be related to bikes

 

You'd be wrong.

 

Waterways World is published by Waterways World Ltd, a small independent company which publishes WW, NarrowBoat, and SelfBuild & Design (a "build your own house" magazine). That's it. (Personally I think being published by a small independent company is a good thing.)

 

Canal Boat is published by Archant, a larger publisher but nonetheless not one with a cycling magazine in their stable.

[Robbo]

 

 

I have no direct knowledge of the financial side of things but I do not think it is fair to make this type of comment until you have some idea about how it will be paid for. I think that you will find hiring the equipment, people who know how to use it, or actual; labs far more expensive than any of the magazines can afford.

 

If you can not use test labs etc. then you fall back on the feed back from LARGE numbers of users and I do not think such magazines have enough of a user base who would regularly provide such feedback to make it meaningful.

 

So we are back to an individuals experience as the best that can be done but as I explained even then there are financial limitations.

 

One of my favorite websites is dpreview, they have indepth reviews and good technical details of all the cameras they review. I want this type of information for boat stuff, you don't get it from magazines anymore, I can get individual experience from sites like this, mechinical knowledge from sites like yours, personal experence on canals from boaters blogs. Apart from reviewing new boats just what exactly are magazines adding? They could compare multi products, but they fail badly when they do as it's written from a "individuals experience", and not a black/white indepth test. Perhaps it's because now they have so little content in this area that there readers are now so dumbed down, they can deliever the drival they do and don't need to really bother.

[Robbo]

 

You'd be wrong.

 

Waterways World is published by Waterways World Ltd, a small independent company which publishes WW, NarrowBoat, and SelfBuild & Design (a "build your own house" magazine). That's it. (Personally I think being published by a small independent company is a good thing.)

 

Canal Boat is published by Archant, a larger publisher but nonetheless not one with a cycling magazine in their stable.

 

So do have any of the cycling magazines have a sister canal boat magazine? If not, then whats the trouble in one editor getting on the phone to another editor of another publishers magazine?

[Richard Fairhurst]

If none of the waterway magazines have a sister cycling magazine, I fail to see how any of the cycling magazines can have a sister waterway magazine.

 

But as to your second suggestion, that's a great idea. Better still, the editor of the waterway magazine could even commission the editor of a cycling magazine (or cycling website - it's 2014 after all) to write the article about folding bikes.

 

And funnily enough that's exactly what happened, because I edit cycle.travel and I wrote the WW article.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Richard Fairhurst

[tree monkey]

 

 

WTF is a 'vitus'???

 

 

 

MtB

tis a dance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Vitus'_dance_(disambiguation)

[Starcoaster]

I have had a reasonable amount of freebies bunged my way for test and review, as well as the chance to do some interesting stuff as part of articles.

Nobody's given me anything worth mega-bucks though.

[luctor et emergo]

What's dubious about putting magazines in plastic bags? That seems sensible to me.

The environment won't like it..

[luctor et emergo]

I have had a reasonable amount of freebies bunged my way for test and review, as well as the chance to do some interesting stuff as part of articles.

Nobody's given me anything worth mega-bucks though.

When I was editing and reviewing on a big scale model site, I got more review samples than I could shake a stick at. Many were send out to other reviewers, the cream is still in storage...

[MtB]

 

 

For what it's worth, I now lock-wheel with a second-hand Bike Friday, which cost me £350 and is pretty much bullet-proof - but, inevitably, doesn't fold anywhere near as small as a Brompton.

 

 

So what make and model IS this bike please?

 

I'm interested because I've had a series of folding bikes for lockwheeling and longer distance towpath riding, of which I do a LOT. My current bike is a Dahon Jack and it stands out a mile as the best bike I've had so far for the job.

 

It's a full sized and rugged mountain bike which rides like a rigid but folds in half in a flash to fit in the van. Brilliant. Did you include it in your review?

 

 

MtB

P.S. I just Googled 'bike Friday', and I see that IS the make and model! https://www.bikefriday.com/

Duh....

[Jerra]

What's dubious about putting magazines in plastic bags? That seems sensible to me.

Well for me apart from the environmental effects which have been mentioned I want to know more about what is inside then the few lines of hype on the cover.

 

Incidentally some catalogues are now being sent through the post without plastic or paper wrapping. I can't remember which it is but one we get regularly for the last year or two hasn't had any wrapping.

[mango]

The environment won't like it..

Compared with the amount of plastic used in free supermarket bags, what's used in protecting magazines is small. I'm quite happy to take my own bags to the supermarket, so I don't see a big problem with having my waterways magazines in plastic wrappers.